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  • Alright, all done organizing: hows this sound?

    6' tall, ~165#, prob somewhere around 15-17% body fat maybe less idk for sure, teenage, 2500-2800 maintenance calories, looking to lose some body fat and maintain as best as possible/ possibly gain strength in my power/oly lifts.

    Training days: mon, wed, fri

    3000 cals
    60% carbs 350-450 grams (not including non starchy veg) mainly from sweet potato, fruit, rice, and some oats
    20% protein 160 grams
    ~20% fat 60-80 grams

    workouts are basic starting strength: deadlift/clean, squat, bench/over head press


    Off days: tues, thurs, sat, sun

    1800-2000 cals
    15%carb <100 grams from leaves, non starchy veg, and fruit
    35% protein 160 grams
    50% fat ~100 grams

    exercise includes 1-2 times a week tabata row, kettlebell, body weight, or barbell complex
    light calisthenics
    stretching
    oly lifting technique work


    saturday: 20 hr fast
    sunday: carb load @~2000 cals, low fat

    All days except saturday have 12:00 noon-8:00 pm eating window w/ a 16 hour fast

    suggestions, opinions, comments?
    Last edited by James Ming; 02-03-2014, 07:05 PM.

  • #2
    At your height and bodyweight?

    MOAR PROTEINZ. MOAR MILK (if you tolerate it).

    Shredding and body comp changes will occur as you pack on muscle. At your height, you ain't carrying much muscle mass at all. Even if you maintain body fat or add a couple of pounds, but put on 20 pounds of lean mass (eminently achievable, given your age and frame), your bodyfat % will drop by miles.

    If you're obese, dropping fat while makin gainz isn't just achievable, it's optimal.

    Bro, you ain't obese. You're skinny.

    Carb loading isn't something you need to over analyze. Eat from good sources according to appetite. If you're lifting like a boss, you've had enough. If you're not, you haven't. But they're an easy source of calories when gaining.

    Lift hard, eat fucktons of protein, eat carbs until full and don't neglect good fat and zinc sources for testosterone production. Lift safe, but go balls out.

    I personally wouldn't worry about calorie counting but adopt a seefood diet approach with clean, primal sources; you see food, you eat it. Don't cap calories on days off. If you're hungry, eat. You're young and slim. Enjoy your metabolism while it's firing on all cylinders.
    Last edited by Reventon; 02-03-2014, 08:03 PM.

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    • #3
      Good luck.

      Only you will know how well it works. Don't be afraid make changes based on objective data after the first few weeks. Ie. how much you can lift or if your BF is responding as you think it should.

      I'm not analytical enough to go this route, but hope it works for ya.
      Last edited by Neckhammer; 02-03-2014, 08:04 PM.

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      • #4
        I'd say concentrate on building strength in the main lifts and forget the tabata row, kettlebell, body weight, or barbell complex
        light calisthenics, stretching and oly lifting technique work.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
          I'd say concentrate on building strength in the main lifts and forget the tabata row, kettlebell, body weight, or barbell complex
          light calisthenics, stretching and oly lifting technique work.
          The only thing I might keep is the stretching/mobility work, and the oly technique. Maybe. That much extra work will detract from your lifts pretty quickly.

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          • #6
            He mentioned that his main goal was to lose body fat, and hopefully maintain strength as well as possible. In that case, putting all the focus into Starting Strength doesn't make all that much sense.

            Focus on nutrition first. You don't need 450g carbs on your lifting days. That's 1800 calories. If you're looking to get leaner, that's not going to do you much good. Get more fat and protein. 150g or so of carbs will more than cover your needs for that program -- you're not running a marathon.

            Second, I have all the love in the world for Starting Strength, but if strength isn't really your main goal, you'd probably be better off with a program that doesn't involve resting for 3-4 minutes between each set of 5. As much as MDAers seem to hate anything that gets your heart rate up, a circuit/metabolic based strength program will usually do a better job helping you lean out.

            Good luck!
            Last edited by Joshy; 02-05-2014, 08:17 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Joshy View Post
              He mentioned that his main goal was to lose body fat, and hopefully maintain strength as well as possible. In that case, putting all the focus into Starting Strength doesn't make all that much sense.

              Focus on nutrition first. You don't need 400g carbs on your lifting days. That's 2400 calories. If you're looking to get leaner, that's not going to do you much good. Get more fat and protein. 150g or so of carbs will more than cover your needs for that program -- you're not running a marathon.

              Second, I have all the love in the world for Starting Strength, but if strength isn't really your main goal, you'd probably be better off with a program that doesn't involve resting for 3-4 minutes between each set of 5. As much as MDAers seem to hate anything that gets your heart rate up, a circuit/metabolic based strength program will usually do a better job helping you lean out.

              Good luck!
              Dude. You're ignoring his starting point. He's a young string bean. Yes, he could work at purely cutting fat, but the reality is doing so on a strength training program is annoying. It makes your workouts more difficult due to lack of energy and makes progression harder.

              When you could alternatively just pack on lean mass via eating more, dropping your body fat % at the same time. If he visually wants to lean out some after that (assuming the muscle gain doesn't make him look lean enough to suit his goals), it's much easier to cut when you have more mass because you'll be more insulin sensitive.

              Win/win.
              Last edited by Reventon; 02-05-2014, 06:44 AM.

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              • #8
                You're a teenage boy with 15% bodyfat and you are counting calories and trying to lose more fat? Dud. EAT and LIFT. Don't worry about the rest.
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Reventon View Post
                  Dude. You're ignoring his starting point. He's a young string bean. Yes, he could work at purely cutting fat, but the reality is doing so on a strength training program is annoying. It makes your workouts more difficult due to lack of energy and makes progression harder.

                  When you could alternatively just pack on lean mass via eating more, dropping your body fat % at the same time. If he visually wants to lean out some after that (assuming the muscle gain doesn't make him look lean enough to suit his goals), it's much easier to cut when you have more mass because you'll be more insulin sensitive.

                  Win/win.
                  I mostly agree with you. There's definitely some conflict between what he SHOULD be doing and what he wants. If you're 15-17% in your teens, you should just focus on eating HEALTHY (I'd honestly avoid calorie counting) and really emphasizing your form (ala Starting Strength -- hopefully you have the book, not just the program).

                  That being said, I'm not on board with 1800 carb calories for someone not doing endurance training. And while Starting Strength is an awesome program (which I agree he should do), as far as fat loss goes, it certainly wouldn't be my go-to.

                  Cheers
                  Last edited by Joshy; 02-05-2014, 08:18 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Joshy View Post
                    I mostly agree with you. There's definitely some conflict between what he SHOULD be doing and what he wants. If you're 15-17% in your teens, you should just focus on eating HEALTHY (I'd honestly avoid calorie counting) and really emphasizing your form (ala Starting Strength -- hopefully you have the book, not just the program).

                    That being said, I'm not on board with 1800 carb calories for someone not doing endurance training. And while Starting Strength is an awesome program (which I agree he should do), as far as fat loss goes, it certainly wouldn't be my go-to.

                    Cheers
                    He really doesn't have any fat to lose. He's young and may have not yet reached his max testosterone output, his full adulthood. If he just lifts a lot he'll build muscle and once his testosterone production increases with a little more age, he'll have the outcome he wants. He really needs to eat lots of real food so that his body will develop into a full-grown man and not diet like a girl.
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Joshy View Post
                      I mostly agree with you. There's definitely some conflict between what he SHOULD be doing and what he wants. If you're 15-17% in your teens, you should just focus on eating HEALTHY (I'd honestly avoid calorie counting) and really emphasizing your form (ala Starting Strength -- hopefully you have the book, not just the program).

                      That being said, I'm not on board with 1800 carb calories for someone not doing endurance training. And while Starting Strength is an awesome program (which I agree he should do), as far as fat loss goes, it certainly wouldn't be my go-to.

                      Cheers
                      I get that. Between his age and training though, carb amount really doesn't worry me. Marks carb curve is a nice guide for the fat and sedentary getting food from crap sources, but it's not a be all and end all. Plenty of users here with different body types and metabolisms have done fine with high carb, and if you're looking to gain while eating whole foods, they represent cheap and plentiful calories to maintain a surplus.

                      I also made the assumption 15-17 % isn't particularly correct if he's used calipers or a visual method, both of which are notoriously inaccurate. He's probably running under rather than over given his background and body type. As a result, by simply upping his lean mass, his net body fat percentage drop is likely to be huge. A buck sixty five is nothing spread over a six foot frame.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        He really doesn't have any fat to lose. He's young and may have not yet reached his max testosterone output, his full adulthood. If he just lifts a lot he'll build muscle and once his testosterone production increases with a little more age, he'll have the outcome he wants. He really needs to eat lots of real food so that his body will develop into a full-grown man and not diet like a girl.
                        haha you might be on to something! i should probably clarify that I'm not looking for some obesity rehab protocol, i just want to lose some of the extra that I've put on in the past several months after an interlude with shitty eating habits (which i got over about 2 months ago). I admit I'm probably a bit spoiled too, I have scrawny genetics (mom and dad both were really thin) so def an ectomorph which means that I had abs ever since I lost my baby fat and no muscle. On top of that I used to be a rower, so energy expenditure was off the charts. Seeing flub on this frame is just something i guess I'm a bit unaccustomed to. I've been doing SS for 2-3 months and lifts are going great, its just tat in my vanity I don't like the belly protrusion I've given myself. I expected to lose a lot of definition, but I don't like the notion of ending up with love handles and visceral fat before middle age.

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                        • #13
                          ^Dude, that will melt off once your lifting gets heavy enough and your body reverts to homeostasis. Don't sweat it. Whatever further you want to cut once you've bulked some will be easier to get rid of anyway once you've hit the iron for long enough. Build dem muscles.

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