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Is perpetual training hard on the body?

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  • #16
    Pending between a catabolic and anabolic state is what life is all about; tissue turnover, energy in and energy out! And if our system becomes better in recovering from training or whatever then it must be healthy since it expands our limits, or at least it feel very healthy and that’s enough for me – rather an energetic life that feels good than a crappy inactive existence that perhaps can make you live a few years longer. But as good ol’ Aristotle said, the true art is to find the balance between extremes, the golden mean, and most people are exercising far too little to be really healthy in our days…
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seaweed View Post
      i dont consider myself to overdo it overall. a lot of people think i do. but i look prob a good 5 years younger than i really am. my body isnt falling to pieces and i have far less general aches, pains and ailments than anyone i know in my age group. i can also do far more than most of them physically. so, unscientifically, i think moderation is the key but it is a relative word.
      Seas, this is what it's all about. You go, girl.
      Annie Ups the Ante
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

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      • #18
        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        I guess my question is more along the lines of how healthy is it to remain in a state of perpetual training, where you are always creating the training stress and recovering from it. Is it healthy to do this forever? For a few years? How long? Does anyone know?
        Do it 'til you die. THEN worry about it..

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        • #19
          An easy answer is to take a deload week, or just a week off in general. I'm not saying deload every other week, but depending on how you're feeling, this might be once a month or twice a year.
          M / 18 / 155 lbs / 5'9" / 12% BF

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            I guess my question is more along the lines of how healthy is it to remain in a state of perpetual training, where you are always creating the training stress and recovering from it. Is it healthy to do this forever? For a few years? How long? Does anyone know?
            I think being sore all the time means you are doing something wrong hence my questions. I can't imagine continuing to do something that caused constant pain for very long. I don't believe it needs to hurt.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              I guess my question is more along the lines of how healthy is it to remain in a state of perpetual training, where you are always creating the training stress and recovering from it. Is it healthy to do this forever? For a few years? How long? Does anyone know?
              Train for the rest of your life I say but it is recommended that every 4-6 weeks to build in a deload week because it is pretty hard on your body to live with constant inflammation. Also eating things that minimize inflammation is alway a good idea.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by snoops View Post
                I think being sore all the time means you are doing something wrong hence my questions. I can't imagine continuing to do something that caused constant pain for very long. I don't believe it needs to hurt.
                That's how I've been for close on 30 years. Very rarely am I not sore from a workout. Does it need to hurt.....latest findings say not but for some of us that makes no difference, we train hard we get sore.

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                • #23
                  Hmmm. Well am I not working hard enough? When I had a trainer I was gaining weight(barbell weight!) a lot faster than I am on my own. Obviously easier to push with someone pushing you!! Then there's the lack of spotting that makes me hesitate to pile on the weight too fast.

                  But after a good workout I feel wasted. You know like you just want to sit and chill. That good "damn I worked hard" feeling. But I'm not ever sore the next day.

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                  • #24
                    But after a good workout I feel wasted. You know like you just want to sit and chill. That good "damn I worked hard" feeling. But I'm not ever sore the next day.
                    i feel either like that or i have a i can run up mountains feeling. it is rare i get sore. i do have a trainer and he does push me but he's also not stupid about it as what we do works. and i'd also rather avoid injury so i can keep training.

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                    • #25
                      I really admire the training that you're doing and someday I will try it myself. But for now, a routine is very important to keeping me on task. To that end, I am only doing as much as I can recover from with 48 hours rest, so I'm doing bodyweight stuff using Convict Conditioning as a guide. Also walking and hiking around 18 miles per week wearing a weight vest. I am still trying to lose some flab, though. There is no way I will work out if I am sore from the last time. I have tried different things, and I am happiest doing 8-10 sets of 10-20 reps (squats or push-ups mostly), than 3 sets of 5 of a higher weight, because I can do the former again in two days. When I do the latter, I have no idea how long it will take before I "feel like" trying again. Yes, I am a big baby, but I have to enjoy what I'm doing.
                      As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jennifla View Post
                        I really admire the training that you're doing and someday I will try it myself. But for now, a routine is very important to keeping me on task. To that end, I am only doing as much as I can recover from with 48 hours rest, so I'm doing bodyweight stuff using Convict Conditioning as a guide. Also walking and hiking around 18 miles per week wearing a weight vest. I am still trying to lose some flab, though. There is no way I will work out if I am sore from the last time. I have tried different things, and I am happiest doing 8-10 sets of 10-20 reps (squats or push-ups mostly), than 3 sets of 5 of a higher weight, because I can do the former again in two days. When I do the latter, I have no idea how long it will take before I "feel like" trying again. Yes, I am a big baby, but I have to enjoy what I'm doing.
                        If I do just one set of 20 rep squats giving it my all then that's my legs done, 20 reps ' balls to the wall' squats are the hardest thing anyone can do in the gym !

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
                          It's been proven that some muscle damage can as long as a few weeks to fully recover. If you consider damage to our outer tissue(skin)and think how long a cut can take to form new skin. Now consider the theory that our skin is designed to heal faster than our internal tissue so as to stop infection with it being so exposed to the external bacteria and such like. There is no reason that muscle tissue should heal any faster than our skin and in truth it probably takes much longer.
                          I work each body part every 8 days and although there is bound to be a slight carryover from body part to body part,it is not overly significant.
                          another way of relating this is that it takes two weeks to become adapted to a flu vaccine. You stimulate a stresses on the body and then give it time to recover. It just seems reasonable to me that recovering from a flue virus is of higher priority than recovering from a weight workout and adding muscle.

                          The best gains I ever made was working each body part only once per week on a three-day per week routine. I was 47 years old. Most people workout more than they should.

                          Everybody in MDA takes issue with CW as it relates to diet/nutrition. But with exercise and recovery in so many of the the threads on MDA exercise frequency is still programed using CW.

                          When I was younger I had it in my mind that I needed to lift each body part at least twice per week or I'd never reach my muscle building goals. I ended up getting overtrained often.

                          Steve Reeves workout 3 days per week on a routine that a lot of people would scuff at today.
                          Steve Reeves Workout ! Building a Herculean Physique Naturally.
                          But 3 days per week was the norm in his day:
                          Bodybuilding Routines For Real World Muscle

                          Seems to me that working out 3 days per week on a set routine is still CW. When I first got into bodybuilding at age 19 I workout 3 days per week because that's what everyone thought you were supposed to do. Then I read Franco Columbu's "Winning Bodybuilding" book that advocated split routines. In my 19-20 year old mind that made since...and besides look at how muscular Franco was. Nobody had heard of steroids in those days. I was working out 2 hours a day 6 days per week. Way too much

                          I made better gains doing Mike Mentzer's HIT routine.

                          Today I only lift once to twice per week. Usually, I do a full body routine on Monday using compound exercises and follow it up on Tuesday with another full body workout but using isolation work. IMO once every week to 10 days is enough so long as you find other ways to be active.

                          Here's and article on adding more time between workouts.
                          Less Is More Than Enough
                          Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jennifla View Post
                            I really admire the training that you're doing and someday I will try it myself. But for now, a routine is very important to keeping me on task. To that end, I am only doing as much as I can recover from with 48 hours rest, so I'm doing bodyweight stuff using Convict Conditioning as a guide. Also walking and hiking around 18 miles per week wearing a weight vest. I am still trying to lose some flab, though. There is no way I will work out if I am sore from the last time. I have tried different things, and I am happiest doing 8-10 sets of 10-20 reps (squats or push-ups mostly), than 3 sets of 5 of a higher weight, because I can do the former again in two days. When I do the latter, I have no idea how long it will take before I "feel like" trying again. Yes, I am a big baby, but I have to enjoy what I'm doing.

                            After having overtrained so many times that left me with forced layoffs from the gym, I learned to us motivation as my gauge to working out. When you're over reaching and overtraining in your workouts the first thing to go is motivation. But most people read that as wimping out and needing to dig deeper.

                            If you come to the belief that training frequency can be extended out to, say, ten days it become psychologically easier to stay away from the weights until you really feel up to the effort.
                            Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                            • #29
                              If there is one part of the "CW" that I hate more than any, it is this idea that our bodies are little tulips that must be nurtured, given exactly the right inputs, or we will be "unhealthy".

                              The reality is that your body is designed, like pretty much any other large mammal, to be under almost daily strain. A lion does not walk around hoping he is not running too hard after his gazelle dinner. If all things ancestral is centered on understanding nature, it must be understood next that nature is harsh, full of extremes for physiology, and competition that will quickly remove any type of lapse to the work.

                              The key words to the question though are "training" and "perpetual"....

                              If by training you mean a set of specific goals you are methodically trying to move toward, often with little regard for the price tag (I.E. I want to bench 300#, so I will spend 2 hours on chest twice a week), then YES. At present, I am in a 4 month cycle to try to reach a whole host of set goals (have them in my journal, that I never update!). This will conclude in 2 weeks.

                              At the end of this, I will essentially take about a month off of that level of training. Right now it is 4 days a week, usually a 60-90 min workout, and I don't think most people would advocate doing it over years.

                              By the end of the deload month though, I will have created a new set of goals, and training will begin again.....I think the key is to take long periods off if you are REALLY tearing up your body; but to be honest, a lot of guys I know that "deload" don't really push on themselves all that hard, so I am a little reticent to say that everyone needs to do it.

                              For example:
                              A few days a week of circuit work, some mild soreness about half the time = go with it, no deload
                              Completing a Smolov progression, working up to a 2 mile swim, running a marathon = deload

                              I am saying that I believe there is a threshold where it becomes necessary, but in general constant work like that will not require a long rest period.

                              As for what I started on: My father ran a farm for 30 years, was a firefighter, competed in weightlifting, served in the army infantry for 6 years, and overall spent 70% of his waking hours moving around or lifting some heavy ass stuff.....and he is now 57 and looks, I could honestly say, better than Mark Sisson.

                              So if that is my future, I will take it
                              "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                              • #30
                                If there is one part of the "CW" that I hate more than any, it is this idea that our bodies are little tulips that must be nurtured, given exactly the right inputs, or we will be "unhealthy".

                                The reality is that your body is designed, like pretty much any other large mammal, to be under almost daily strain. A lion does not walk around hoping he is not running too hard after his gazelle dinner. If all things ancestral is centered on understanding nature, it must be understood next that nature is harsh, full of extremes for physiology, and competition that will quickly remove any type of lapse to the work.

                                The key words to the question though are "training" and "perpetual"....

                                If by training you mean a set of specific goals you are methodically trying to move toward, often with little regard for the price tag (I.E. I want to bench 300#, so I will spend 2 hours on chest twice a week), then YES. At present, I am in a 4 month cycle to try to reach a whole host of set goals (have them in my journal, that I never update!). This will conclude in 2 weeks.

                                At the end of this, I will essentially take about a month off of that level of training. Right now it is 4 days a week, usually a 60-90 min workout, and I don't think most people would advocate doing it over years.

                                By the end of the deload month though, I will have created a new set of goals, and training will begin again.....I think the key is to take long periods off if you are REALLY tearing up your body; but to be honest, a lot of guys I know that "deload" don't really push on themselves all that hard, so I am a little reticent to say that everyone needs to do it.

                                For example:
                                A few days a week of circuit work, some mild soreness about half the time = go with it, no deload
                                Completing a Smolov progression, working up to a 2 mile swim, running a marathon = deload

                                I am saying that I believe there is a threshold where it becomes necessary, but in general constant work like that will not require a long rest period.

                                As for what I started on: My father ran a farm for 30 years, was a firefighter, competed in weightlifting, served in the army infantry for 6 years, and overall spent 70% of his waking hours moving around or lifting some heavy ass stuff.....and he is now 57 and looks, I could honestly say, better than Mark Sisson.

                                So if that is my future, I will take it
                                "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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