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What's a good OHP???? and a question about bench press

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  • What's a good OHP???? and a question about bench press

    Howdy, so, I stopped benching and OHPing for quite a while as my shoulders were buggered. But I discovered Band pull - aparts and the term "rest" and my shoulders are feeling awesome (touch wood)

    So I'm soon ready to get back to pressing. I have two questions, what is a good OHP weight to aim for? I'm 19 and weigh 80kg.

    I was thinking on aiming for a 60kg OHP with a bench somewhere around 70-80 kg.

    One more question, is the bench a truly necessary exercise? It's never given me much grief but I've honestly never known anyone who benches to not have some injury, and the idea of a rotator cuff tear or some other horrible snap action in my shoulders from benching just doesn't seem worth it.

    I was contemplating completely replacing the bench press with Dips and push-up progressions, working my way to 1 arm push-ups.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    First of all, I think you can do a lot better than that for OHP. It will take time and hard work. You are young. The bench press and OHP both seem to help each other out. For example, I focused only on bench presses for years without doing any OHP's. My bench was around 250 lbs. When I tried OHP's just to seem how much I could do, I recall it being around 170 lbs. That's not bad.

    The other crazy thing that I noticed is with when I took an entire year off from bench presses and focused only on OHP's for that time. I did it because I had shoulder problems from benching, impingement. When I went back to try benching one day just to see how much I could do, with someone showing me how to improve my form, I got up 275 lbs. That's a 25 lb increase on my bench without doing any bench presses at all.

    Some of the best strongman competitors don't do bench presses at all. Jesse Marunde, who got 2nd place in the worlds strongest man contest, for example used to laugh when people asked him how much he could bench because he never benched at all. He'd focus on OHP's like crazy and I think he might have done inclines or dips once in a while as assistance. He never told anyone too much detail on how his routines were like, but my bet is that they were simple and focused mainly on a variety of strongman events and/or lifts that were similar to what he might encounter in a contest. Anyways, look up pics of him and tell me if he's lagging in the chest department. He isn't.

    Jesse used to tell people to squat more when they asked how to improve their bench press. Why do you think that is? Focus on the basics, simplicity, work hard, and results will follow. If you improve your squats, your push presses (or jerks) improve. If your push presses and jerks improve you get used to handling more weight overhead and your military press goes up. When your military press goes up so will your bench. Not that benching has anything to do with strongman. When asked one time on his forum, he said if he could guess he could probably bench around 700 if he tried and focused on it. I believe that. The world record raw bench press is around 700 lbs last time I knew.

    One thing to note about the bench press is it doesn't bother your shoulders as much if you arc your back and keep your elbows tucked in slightly. That's good powerlifting form for competitive bench pressing. However, that doesn't mean it's healthy. The problem with that is when you arc your back like that it squishes the discs in your back, potentially causing disc herniation and eventual back problems and pain. Not a good trade off if you're interested in health.

    So, I think to answer your question, although bench presses are a descent upper body pressing movement, I think you're right. You don't need them and there are surely other choices that aren't going to hurt your shoulders as much. OHP's and pushups are great. Also, if you ever really want to focus on horizontal presses, floor presses are a descent option; because of the limited range of motion they won't bother your shoulders.

    Another option if you really like benching is just to do them, but know where your limits are and don't do them all the time. Take a break once in a while. It's up to you.

    A few other notes about shoulder health is it's good to stretch your chest and lats well because they are internal rotators. Stretch them regularly so they don't pull to much. Your band pull aparts are probably good because they work the posterior deltoids which are exernal rotators. Also include some sort of external rotation exercise to work the infraspinatus.

    I hope that helps.

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    • #3
      A good OHP goal is body weight. A good bench press goal is 1.5 x body weight.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Power Hawk View Post
        A good OHP goal is body weight. A good bench press goal is 1.5 x body weight.
        I was gonna say this. Of course, by the time you hit those goals, you'll already have new goals. That's what keeps it interesting.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lockstock View Post
          Howdy, so, I stopped benching and OHPing for quite a while as my shoulders were buggered. But I discovered Band pull - aparts and the term "rest" and my shoulders are feeling awesome (touch wood)

          So I'm soon ready to get back to pressing. I have two questions, what is a good OHP weight to aim for? I'm 19 and weigh 80kg.

          I was thinking on aiming for a 60kg OHP with a bench somewhere around 70-80 kg.

          One more question, is the bench a truly necessary exercise? It's never given me much grief but I've honestly never known anyone who benches to not have some injury, and the idea of a rotator cuff tear or some other horrible snap action in my shoulders from benching just doesn't seem worth it.

          I was contemplating completely replacing the bench press with Dips and push-up progressions, working my way to 1 arm push-ups.

          Thoughts?
          If you already are having shoulder issues when you bench I wouldn't recommend dips because with the internal rotation of the shoulder you're going to exacerbate the issue. You need to pull more. Pull and pull and pull until you have strengthened you upper back enough to be in balance. Posterior delt work is a must (like the pull apart) rhomboid press, high pulls, wall angels, halos, pull ups, invented rows. All these things will help pull your shoulders back into place plus stretch your pecs everyday. The reason you're having issues is because your humerus is being pulled forward and causing an impingement in your glenohumeral joint. By strengthening the muscles in the upper back and stretching the chest the impingement will become less of an issue.

          Also like ripped said use a powerlifting set up. Far easier on the shoulders.

          Comment


          • #6
            A bodyweight press is considered good. Personally, I'd like to press 225lb at some point. Why? Because pressing a pair of 45s on each side just looks awesome.

            A good ratio of press/bench is 2/3. For example, if you can bench 225lb, you should be able to press 150lb. A strong bench will help the press, but not as much the other way around. If you don't have a problem doing them, I'd do both - correctly. Though bench is the official lift of the Bro Republic, it is still the best developer of upper body strength.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by quikky View Post
              A good ratio of press/bench is 2/3. For example, if you can bench 225lb, you should be able to press 150lb. A strong bench will help the press, but not as much the other way around. If you don't have a problem doing them, I'd do both - correctly. Though bench is the official lift of the Bro Republic, it is still the best developer of upper body strength.
              Dude, how can you advise people on this stuff without mentioning that every Monday is National Bench Press Day?
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #8
                I just read this because I have pain in my shoulder from bench pressing, too. It's an interesting read/video.

                T NATION | Dave Tate's Six-Week Bench Press Cure
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                • #9
                  If your shoulders have had issues in the past I'd recommend doing Dumbbell presses with a neutral grip. Same for the chest presses, dumbbells are a lot easier on the shoulder joints.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                    Dude, how can you advise people on this stuff without mentioning that every Monday is National Bench Press Day?
                    And how can you mention that every Monday is National Bench Press Day but not mention that every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday is National Curl In-Front-Of-The-Mirror Day?

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                    • #11
                      Shoot for a bodyweight press. That's pretty rare these days. Although anything above a .75 bodyweight press ain't bad.

                      The bench press is a great movement, but just listen to your body. If it hurts to bench, don't do it. If it doesn't hurt, you should be fine. First make sure your form is correct, though.
                      In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

                      This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

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                      • #12
                        I've been adding heavier OHP into my workouts lately. I have an old shoulder injury that really made vertical pushing tough for many years. I can push up my bodyweight on OHP, but mainly am building up some sets at 75% body weight or so. Taking it really slow just in case.

                        I know a huge dude who does strongman competitions for fun. This guy trained with Kroc in his garage when they lived close. He says bench isn't that necessary and OHP is king.

                        He casually said once, "I've found that if I just keep my press above 330 or so, I can still bench 400+ pretty easily, even if I never bench in workouts."

                        I wish I could make awesome statements like that.

                        Sent via lightsaber

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
                          Shoot for a bodyweight press. That's pretty rare these days. Although anything above a .75 bodyweight press ain't bad.
                          Well, using bodyweight multipliers favors the little guys. As an example, I 5-repped about 96% of my bodyweight on the press yesterday, and I'm not very strong. I figure I can press about 110% of my meager bodyweight for a single. That's still a long ways off from 2 plates though, which is my goal for 2014.
                          The Champagne of Beards

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                          • #14
                            Are these presses done with straight legs or are they more of a jerk style ?

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                            • #15
                              I wish I could press my bodyweight. I don't think 75% is too far off, but it's still in the future. For me, there's a pretty sharp decline from when I can do several reps, to when I simply can't move the weight.

                              I personally do them strict.

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