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Wendler or Riptoe????

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  • Wendler or Riptoe????

    Hi all,

    What do people think about the above two programmes? They seem to be recommended a lot on this forum. Is there much difference?

    I started a basic programme earlier this year and really enjoyed it. However I'm a new father and there has been pretty much no training in the last 5 months.

    I'm looking to start again with some consistency.

    Which of the above programmes would you recommend or have used as a beginner and are there any advantages disadvantages of one over the other?

    Also if I was to only do strength twice a week would I still get the gains but just not as much as quickly?

    Appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts.

    Noz

  • #2
    Congrats on the new arrival!

    If you refer to Wendler's 5-3-1, this is normally recommended as an intermediate program, and either a Starting Strength or Strong Lifts 5x5 is a good start and good to stick with until you exhausted the beginner gains. Usually it takes about a year, for men getting to 1.5 BW squat (for women about 1 BW squat) and most of lifts do not improve after a few deload-reload sequences once you get frustrated to keep coming back to stuck on weight). Then a Madcow or Wendler or any other intermediate program will take you further.

    Yep, normally 2x a week associated with slower gains in men.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #3
      Thanks Leida, that's great advice. Gonna start with starting strength then.

      Sent from my HTC One S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nozzarelli View Post
        Thanks Leida, that's great advice. Gonna start with starting strength then.

        Sent from my HTC One S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
        I agree with Leida except for 1 or 2 tiny nitpicky details: You can't do a linear progression a la Starting Strength or Stronglifts for a year. A dedicated trainee will exhaust linear gains in a matter of a few months. Also, 1.5 BW squats are okay for a bigger guy, but most medium-sized and smaller dudes can probably blow right past that milestone, but the definition of an intermediate has nothing to do with this, and is in every way based on whether one can continue to adapt and become stronger as a result of a single workout in time for the next programmed workout.

        tl:dr version: do Starting Strength or another novice LP until you can't anymore, then pick an intermediate program, like 5/3/1.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #5
          I agree with Rich. Do Starting Strength first for a few months. When it gets harder to progress from workout to workout, switch to something like 5/3/1.
          In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

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          • #6
            Thanks Rich and Jeff. Gonna do just that.
            Got an app on my phone to get me started!

            Sent from my HTC One S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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            • #7
              Also depends on your current goals. Starting Strength is great, but if you're trying to lose weight at all, it is very hard to do that much work on a calorie deficit. In my experience, 5-3-1 is much easier to perform on when trying to lose weight and I'd personally recommend it to a beginner who's trying to lose weight long before S.S.

              However, if you're happy with your weight or want to put it on, S.S. and a calorie surplus works wonders.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
                Also depends on your current goals. Starting Strength is great, but if you're trying to lose weight at all, it is very hard to do that much work on a calorie deficit. In my experience, 5-3-1 is much easier to perform on when trying to lose weight and I'd personally recommend it to a beginner who's trying to lose weight long before S.S.

                However, if you're happy with your weight or want to put it on, S.S. and a calorie surplus works wonders.
                It also depends on how husky you are to begin with. If you're quite husky, you can do SS while losing some body fat initially.

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                • #9
                  Texas Method is another good intermediate program. So far I've been having success with it. It seems to help me to have the higher volume than the 5/3/1 program does.
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by quikky View Post
                    It also depends on how husky you are to begin with. If you're quite husky, you can do SS while losing some body fat initially.
                    Definitely, but you still won't really be able to go into a calorie deficit. I tried. Progressively heavier squats three times a week while on calorie reduction wrecked me like nothing before or since ever did.

                    Not saying that it wouldn't work, just that if fat loss is one's primary goal and strength is secondary or an after-thought, it's not the program I'd recommend.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
                      Definitely, but you still won't really be able to go into a calorie deficit. I tried. Progressively heavier squats three times a week while on calorie reduction wrecked me like nothing before or since ever did.

                      Not saying that it wouldn't work, just that if fat loss is one's primary goal and strength is secondary or an after-thought, it's not the program I'd recommend.
                      You wouldn't do it on a calorie deficit. You simply eat enough. If you do it right, you should lose a few inches off the waist, and gain a good chunk of strength.

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                      • #12
                        Drew Baye.

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                        • #13
                          I'm fairly lean and don't won't to put fat on if I can help it.

                          Would SS and some hiit every now and then keep me lean?

                          Am I opening a can of worms if I ask what people eat on these programmes?

                          Sent from my HTC One S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nozzarelli View Post
                            I'm fairly lean and don't won't to put fat on if I can help it.

                            Would SS and some hiit every now and then keep me lean?

                            Am I opening a can of worms if I ask what people eat on these programmes?
                            Maybe you are opening a gallon of milk a day? Nothing wrong by a gallon of milk for gaining muscles, except that the very low volume of Starting Strength and 5/3/1 will make you fat, without much hyperthrophy, unless you are doing lots of additional training...
                            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                            - Schopenhauer

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                              Maybe you are opening a gallon of milk a day? Nothing wrong by a gallon of milk for gaining muscles, except that the very low volume of Starting Strength and 5/3/1 will make you fat, without much hyperthrophy, unless you are doing lots of additional training...
                              Yeah, squatting 3 times a week with more weight each time won't put on much muscle.

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