Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

compound movements and isolation movements

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    By compound movements I mean exercises or lifts that require movement about more than one joint. I think that's the best way of putting it. Because while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than just one muscle, those secondary muscles are only contracting statically, produce no movement, and therefore can't count as compound movements by my definition.

    By isolation exercises I mean exercises that require movement only about one joint. So while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than one muscle as stabilizers, they are isolation movements. They target one specific muscle.

    I think that's a good thing to take note of because contrary to common belief, you don't need the muscle to be worked through the full range of motion in order to work it well. You just need a good contraction. And in some situations a muscle can be required to contract hard in order to stabilize and make the joint remain in a static position. Take the farmers walk for example. With that the traps and wrists contract statically to hold the weight, but but it makes your wrists and traps HUGE when compared to any other movement that I've ever done. Shrugs and other pulls can't even compare.

    Anyways, the main point of my original post was that isolation exercises surely have their place. For a muscle that isn't getting worked to it's fullest extent with the compound movements you are choosing, spending even a few minutes at the end of your workout with an isolation movement for that specific muscle could be just what will do the trick.

    For example, the triceps get worked in the bench press and will get big from it over time. If you work the bench press hard and the triceps are still lagging and holding you back, triceps extensions of some sort should help.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Ripped View Post
      By compound movements I mean exercises or lifts that require movement about more than one joint. I think that's the best way of putting it. Because while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than just one muscle, those secondary muscles are only contracting statically, produce no movement, and therefore can't count as compound movements by my definition.

      By isolation exercises I mean exercises that require movement only about one joint. So while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than one muscle as stabilizers, they are isolation movements. They target one specific muscle.

      I think that's a good thing to take note of because contrary to common belief, you don't need the muscle to be worked through the full range of motion in order to work it well. You just need a good contraction. And in some situations a muscle can be required to contract hard in order to stabilize and make the joint remain in a static position. Take the farmers walk for example. With that the traps and wrists contract statically to hold the weight, but but it makes your wrists and traps HUGE when compared to any other movement that I've ever done. Shrugs and other pulls can't even compare.

      Anyways, the main point of my original post was that isolation exercises surely have their place. For a muscle that isn't getting worked to it's fullest extent with the compound movements you are choosing, spending even a few minutes at the end of your workout with an isolation movement for that specific muscle could be just what will do the trick.

      For example, the triceps get worked in the bench press and will get big from it over time. If you work the bench press hard and the triceps are still lagging and holding you back, triceps extensions of some sort should help.
      I would highly doubt someone who is strong in the bench press would suffer weak triceps. The bench press to me is a primary tricep/shoulder exercise that also happens to involve the chest albeit to a limited degree. I'd expect the more likely scenario would be that their pec development might suffer if they are the type that uses a lot of front delt during their presses.

      I do agree that some muscle groups might need some specialisation though, side delts come immediately to mind as many people find their front delts dominate when doing compound press movements.The forearms and neck might also benefit from extra work.
      Last edited by OldSchhool; 10-16-2013, 07:36 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
        I would highly doubt someone who is strong in the bench press would suffer weak triceps.
        Now you're talking sense!
        The Champagne of Beards

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
          Man, pecs are weird. Like there's no way in nature to really use them fully.
          I see what you did there.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Ripped View Post
            By compound movements I mean exercises or lifts that require movement about more than one joint. I think that's the best way of putting it. Because while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than just one muscle, those secondary muscles are only contracting statically, produce no movement, and therefore can't count as compound movements by my definition.

            By isolation exercises I mean exercises that require movement only about one joint. So while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than one muscle as stabilizers, they are isolation movements. They target one specific muscle.
            Front delts, pectoralis minor and other muscles are contracting in barbell curl, and I am sore as hell today in my abs from the lying triceps extensions and barbell curls that I did yesterday, so I am not sure that your distinction is sound here...
            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

            - Schopenhauer

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
              Front delts, pectoralis minor and other muscles are contracting in barbell curl, and I am sore as hell today in my abs from the lying triceps extensions and barbell curls that I did yesterday, so I am not sure that your distinction is sound here...
              Heavy tricep pushdowns used to be one of the exercises that hit my abs the hardest !

              Other than Neck, forearms and calves it's pretty hard to really isolate muscle groups.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
                Heavy tricep pushdowns used to be one of the exercises that hit my abs the hardest !

                Other than Neck, forearms and calves it's pretty hard to really isolate muscle groups.
                Yep, you can target them though, but I find the distinction between compound and isolation movements not so fruitful...
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                  Yep, you can target them though, but I find the distinction between compound and isolation movements not so fruitful...
                  Can we just talk about "single-joint" and "multi-joint" exercises then? With the understanding that there's such a thing as isometric contraction, and certain muscles, like abdominals, are actually more suited to being worked isometrically than concentrically/eccentrically?
                  The Champagne of Beards

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                    Yep, you can target them though, but I find the distinction between compound and isolation movements not so fruitful...
                    It makes me laugh when people suggest that stabiliser muscles ( which are kind of a myth anyway )are not used on machines. I'd like to see someone try and push a heavy weight on a seated press without bracing their core. Some people have some crazy ideas about how the body works.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      If I am doing cheating barbell curl, like I did yesterday, leaning forward, pulling the bar towards me, and hyperextend my back on the top, and also move the elbows by the contraction of the front delts and the wrist, then this must be multijoint exercise that involve at least three joints?
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        If I am doing cheating barbell curl, like I did yesterday, leaning forward, pulling the bar towards me, and hyperextend my back on the top, and also move the elbows by the contraction of the front delts and the wrist, then this must be multijoint exercise that involve at least three joints?
                        Why are you moving your wrist? How many joints are in the top of your back?
                        The Champagne of Beards

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Contracting wrist flexors for forarm involvement, the elbow, hip, knee, shoulder ankel and neck! Yep, I am pretty sure that even barbell curl involve most of the mayor joints in the body...
                          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                          - Schopenhauer

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                            Contracting wrist flexors for forarm involvement, the elbow, hip, knee, shoulder ankel and neck! Yep, I am pretty sure that even barbell curl involve most of the mayor joints in the body...
                            What's the opposite of reductio al absurdum?
                            The Champagne of Beards

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                              Contracting wrist flexors for forarm involvement, the elbow, hip, knee, shoulder ankel and neck! Yep, I am pretty sure that even barbell curl involve most of the mayor joints in the body...
                              Hey Gorbag check out Ben Pakulski's video's on youtube, he is one of the smartest bodybuilders around right now and he explains a lot about body mechanics and how they relate to what exercises are best. I think you would like his stuff.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                                What's the opposite of reductio al absurdum?
                                If you have something to say, spit it out!

                                Oh yeah, my neck is sore as well after that heavy overload barbell curl yesterday...
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X