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squats proven harmful, coaches dropping them

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
    Skill improvements will max out AFTER physiological adaptions...
    So the 800 lb squatter might not be stronger than me after all. Told you, quikky.
    The Champagne of Beards

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    • #47
      Originally posted by quikky View Post
      I'm kind of tired of hearing this "reach your genetic limit" silliness. Who has ever reached their genetic limit? Do you know anyone that has? I don't.

      There is no "genetic limit". There is a genetic curve, i.e. the rate of adaptation. A genetically gifted athlete can progress further and faster, whereas a genetically poor athlete will progress much slower and not nearly as far. However, both can make progress indefinitely, just at very different rates. No one ever just reaches a "limit", it just becomes increasing hard to make progress.
      Say "asymptotically." He likes that word and it actually applies here.
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
        Skill improvements will max out AFTER physiological adaptions...
        What does the order of adaptations have to do with the fact that skills in the lift are affected by diminishing returns as well?

        There is the perfect model of how to squat the most efficiently. The closer your squat is to this model, the less of an effect improvement in squat skill will have on your squat weight. This is exactly what diminishing returns are.

        A young powerlifter can start their career with a squat that is 90% perfect, and squat 450lb. Years later, they squat 650lb. Their form is then 95% perfect. Did they 200lb increase in squat weight come from a 5% improvement in squat form?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
          So the 800 lb squatter might not be stronger than me after all. Told you, quikky.
          Plus, with your BJJ skills, you'll toss him around like the weak little girl that he is.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by quikky View Post
            I'm kind of tired of hearing this "reach your genetic limit" silliness. Who has ever reached their genetic limit? Do you know anyone that has? I don't.

            There is no "genetic limit". There is a genetic curve, i.e. the rate of adaptation. A genetically gifted athlete can progress further and faster, whereas a genetically poor athlete will progress much slower and not nearly as far. However, both can make progress indefinitely, just at very different rates. No one ever just reaches a "limit", it just becomes increasing hard to make progress.
            Alright, if you are 99 % within your genetic limits and get your squat up from 600 - 800 in five years at the same bodyweight and without drugs, what made such an improvement possible then? Hint, mostly improvement of skills and neurological adaptions in lifting heavier...
            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

            - Schopenhauer

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            • #51
              I found a pic of Rich having a grappling match against Misha Koklyaev:

              rlyma1.jpg

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                Alright, if you are 99 % within your genetic limits and get your squat up from 600 - 800 in five years at the same bodyweight and without drugs, what made such an improvement possible then? Hint, mostly improvement of skills and neurological adaptions in lifting heavier...
                Who do you think is stronger out of two twins, the twin that squats 600lb, or the twin that squats 800lb?

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                • #53
                  I am pretty sure that I would beat all three of you, Rich, quikky and notontherug in a line-up grappling match anytime...
                  "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                  - Schopenhauer

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by quikky View Post
                    Who do you think is stronger out of two twins, the twin that squats 600lb, or the twin that squats 800lb?
                    It depends...
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                      I am pretty sure that I would beat all three of you, Rich, quikky and notontherug in a line-up grappling match anytime...
                      Of course you would. I'm not grappling with a dude who's wearing shorts with flames on them. That has bad idea written all over it.

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                      • #56
                        Sports Illustrated is harmful to my brain.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          I am pretty sure that I would beat all three of you, Rich, quikky and notontherug in a line-up grappling match anytime...
                          Maybe so. If you get to declare "ippon" for a throw, probably so. On the other hand, I've played quite a bit of newaza with some pretty talented big strong judoka and done alright.
                          The Champagne of Beards

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                            Maybe so. If you get to declare "ippon" for a throw, probably so. On the other hand, I've played quite a bit of newaza with some pretty talented big strong judoka and done alright.
                            Supposedly the only time the Kodokan ever lost to another JJ school was to a newaza specialist school.
                            Kano basically made a retroactive rule making it illegal to just roll down or pull to guard and said it didnt really count.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              Maybe so. If you get to declare "ippon" for a throw, probably so. On the other hand, I've played quite a bit of newaza with some pretty talented big strong judoka and done alright.
                              American judokas generally sucks on the ground Rich! When I trained in japan we did 3 hours ne-waza randori in the morning and two hours standing practise in the evening! We did line-up groundfighting as well, and some of the japs that managed to choke out an foreigner would just relase the choke a little for the lucky guy to wake up so he could repeat choking him out over and over again! Tapping wouldn't help you at all in those times...
                              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                              - Schopenhauer

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                                American judokas generally sucks on the ground Rich! When I trained in japan we did 3 hours ne-waza randori in the morning and two hours standing practise in the evening! We did line-up groundfighting as well, and some of the japs that managed to choke out an foreigner would just relase the choke a little for the lucky guy to wake up so he could repeat choking him out over and over again! Tapping wouldn't help you at all in those times...
                                Well, one thing both our respective sports agree on is that the only way to find out what you can do is to give it a shot. If you're ever in my neighborhood, we can do some friendly training at the Academy where I train. Maybe we can both learn something new.
                                The Champagne of Beards

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