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Aesthetics inspired. Looking for a good bodyweight workout that's better...

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dickson View Post
    This seems to have became a prevailing wisdom, that somehow being like a 5'10 gymnast would be genetically advantageous. I think time and time again, being bigger and stronger is better. Not unnaturally inflatted like a 'roided out bodybuilder, but I think nature would prefer a 6'7 280 defensive end build. Or look at Doug Young, and you can see what an early human would want to look like. You really can't be too strong, and without steroids you really can't get to the point where the extra strength or size becomes a disadvantage. It might not be worth it to be a 350lb powerlifter, but you can't tell me you'd want to have to have to fight him in nature. Especially in the era before weapons, yikes.
    If that were true then they'd show up in the skeletal record. It takes a lot of calories to support a 6'7 280lb muscular build one like Doug Young's. Modern humans were migratorial. Carrying and feeding that much bulk would've been a disadvantage.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Scott F View Post
      If that were true then they'd show up in the skeletal record. It takes a lot of calories to support a 6'7 280lb muscular build one like Doug Young's. Modern humans were migratorial. Carrying and feeding that much bulk would've been a disadvantage.
      Yep, even vikings were an average of 5'7.

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      • #48
        Certain systems of HIT can work depending on individual goals/context and the same with high volume! Personally I try to incorporate some HIT principles when doing high volume training, but I use them sparingly though...
        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

        - Schopenhauer

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
          Certain systems of HIT can work depending on individual goals/context and the same with high volume! Personally I try to incorporate some HIT principles when doing high volume training, but I use them sparingly though...
          Same. Kroc rows are a good example. 1-2 sets, heaviest dumbell you can mange 10 rows, do 20+.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            My thoughts on that is yes, its not fun to destroy a muscle group and have in murdered for a few days, and yes it is boring if you are a person who enjoys lifting. I think though that there is a limit to how effect that type of training can be. I always go to the strongest humans on earth when talking about this and time and again, frequency is key. You cant train frequently if you blow your load on day one. HIT also favors size over strength. Its just not practical to do full body movements in a HIT fashion. Especially the olympic and power lifts (besides bench). So that is why it is a very decent protocol for bodybuilding and good for relative strength gains but completely incompatible for strength sports.
            You could make a similar argument about marathoners as you can about strongest humans. Are they in good health and with that training give them an advantage to "live long and drop dead?" The problem with looking to the strongest humans on earth is that 1 they are genetically gifted, and 2 they are on steroids which allows them to workout more frequently and recover faster.

            It comes down to "what's your goal?" I was always more agile at around 180-190lbs. Doing a HIT style workout a couple of times per week allows me to add a lot more verity to my weekly routine.
            Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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            • #51
              Yep, completely depends on goal. I like to lift for the fun of lifting. I would never subject myself to such a program.

              Even before the invent of steroids though, all the strongmen lifted very frequently (daily).

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              • #52
                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                Well, I think the concept of HIT is a better idea than the Nautilus machines ever were.
                Depends on the movement for me. On some things I think free weights are way better, squats over the leg press. On other stuff I think machines are way better, leg extensions for example. Nautilus was good machines in their day. The best machines I've ever been on were Home - Exerbotics Strength Systems. Exerbotics gives the ideal variable resistance that Nautilus dreamed of Exerbotics - YouTube. The harder you push/resist the harder the machines push back against you.
                Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Scott F View Post
                  Depends on the movement for me. On some things I think free weights are way better, squats over the leg press. On other stuff I think machines are way better, leg extensions for example. Nautilus was good machines in their day. The best machines I've ever been on were Home - Exerbotics Strength Systems. Exerbotics gives the ideal variable resistance that Nautilus dreamed of Exerbotics - YouTube. The harder you push/resist the harder the machines push back against you.
                  Sound like some of the isokinetic exercise machine that I had to use in the early eighties, no eccentric resistance and the variable push back that you describes! I hated those machines and I preferred to do ordinary barbell squat instead of the isokinetic squat machine...
                  "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                  - Schopenhauer

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                    Sound like some of the isokinetic exercise machine that I had to use in the early eighties, no eccentric resistance and the variable push back that you describes! I hated those machines and I preferred to do ordinary barbell squat instead of the isokinetic squat machine...
                    I've used enough different machines over the years that I can tell pretty quickly if it's effective. I haven't used their squat machine but I'd prefer a barbell. I have used the leg press and loved it. At peak contraction I was doing nearly 1000lbs...on the bench 460+lbs. The machines are set up to do 2 sets of 8 reps. That last rep doesn't come soon enough. I loved the machines...but maybe I'm a bit of a masochist .

                    In my day I went for the bulk and strength. Today, I would not. I think your far better off staying within an ideal strength to body ratio that allows for more agility and stamina. Pumping iron 5-6 days per week in a gym doesn't leave much time for outside the gym specific agility training, even if that training is running and tossing a Freebie back and forth with a friend.
                    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Scott F View Post
                      Pumping iron 5-6 days per week in a gym doesn't leave much time for outside the gym specific agility training, even if that training is running and tossing a Freebie back and forth with a friend.
                      Only if you have a shit job.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Zach View Post
                        Only if you have a shit job.
                        Try being married with kids in addition to the job that you have to commute to. In my 20s I had a lot more time and freedom because I was single. Back then my job was oilfield which meant being outside in Texas summers all day and then going to workout at the gym. I know guys who go to the bar and drink after work so I'll give the guys a head's up who'd rather spend that time in the gym for the same social interaction.
                        Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                        • #57
                          even relative to body weight using the barbell exercises as the measure of practical strength creates an unwarranted prejudice toward the heaviest possible build.

                          being short is an advantage because you do less work moving the bar a shorter distance.
                          adding maximum lean weight makes you shorter for your weight.

                          this height bias is reversed in many, probably most practical activities.

                          the 6-6 200 pounder won't compete with the 5-6 200 pounder at squatting but he can very probably punch harder, throw farther,
                          jump higher, etc

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Scott F View Post
                            Depends on the movement for me. On some things I think free weights are way better, squats over the leg press. On other stuff I think machines are way better, leg extensions for example. Nautilus was good machines in their day. The best machines I've ever been on were Home - Exerbotics Strength Systems. Exerbotics gives the ideal variable resistance that Nautilus dreamed of Exerbotics - YouTube. The harder you push/resist the harder the machines push back against you.
                            I'd not seen those Exerbotics machines before, they look awesome !

                            These X Force also look pretty neat,

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