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NEWS - Lazy very-low-carber goes for run, does great, feels fine.

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  • #16
    Knifey...you aren't a superhero. You barely work out. Give us 3 days a week of heavy lifting, a 5 mile run, a 2 hour mountain bike ride, and a couple days of boxing. You'll be mainlining gatorade and gorging on potatoes. That is, if you can move enough to get the food in your face. Perhaps your wife will feed you? Most people who do minimal exercise do just fine on low or vlc diets. Most highly active people do not

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    • #17
      You might be right there. I've been working out more than usual, and feel draggy. But, I'm also eating at a deficit, temporarily, for the ab contest. Normally, I stuff myself silly and feel amazing. Perhaps if I stuff myself even sillier, I can have all the more fun. Will try.

      Although, this
      Give us 3 days a week of heavy lifting, a 5 mile run, a 2 hour mountain bike ride, and a couple days of boxing.
      doesn't actually sound that rough...I'm up for it. Swap out the boxing for body-weight and it's on!
      Last edited by Knifegill; 09-17-2013, 07:10 PM.
      Crohn's, doing SCD

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      • #18
        You might want to read Peter Attia's self experiment on aerobics in ketosis
        The interplay of exercise and ketosis
        The interplay of exercise and ketosis
        Ketosis
        Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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        • #19
          I do an interval run once a week. The run is 3 miles long and incorporates 8-10 100m sprints. I have been doing this run for the 5+ years that I have been on a paleo style diet. Without intervals I can run 10 miles easily. I also walk for 45 minutes 4 days a week. I do body weight training twice a week and play basketball once a week. The first 2-3 years felt amazing. But the last couple years were very difficult and I felt progressively more fatigued, slower and I would end up with achy legs at night time, and super cold hands. I was never VLC and typically would hover around 125-150g of carbs per day. This year I tweaked my diet and added in more carbs from fruits and having one day of a refeed. Daily I am around 200g of carbs and on reefed days I am over 300g+. My runs are much stronger again and I have way more energy without anymore aches. This is what works best for me since I like being active and enjoy playing sports and being outdoors doing stuff. If the weather is bad and I am working inside all day long my overall carb intake is much lower.

          On a side note, before I started upping the carbs I tried to just increase my calories from protein and fats. That went horribly for me. I felt nauseated all the time when I tried to up calories this way instead of proportionately adding in some dietary carbohydrates.
          "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

          People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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          • #20
            You might want to read Peter Attia's self experiment on aerobics in ketosis
            The interplay of exercise and ketosis
            The interplay of exercise and ketosis
            Ketosis
            Slowly reading these now...



            I do an interval run once a week. The run is 3 miles long and incorporates 8-10 100m sprints. I have been doing this run for the 5+ years that I have been on a paleo style diet. Without intervals I can run 10 miles easily. I also walk for 45 minutes 4 days a week. I do body weight training twice a week and play basketball once a week. The first 2-3 years felt amazing. But the last couple years were very difficult and I felt progressively more fatigued, slower and I would end up with achy legs at night time, and super cold hands. I was never VLC and typically would hover around 125-150g of carbs per day. This year I tweaked my diet and added in more carbs from fruits and having one day of a refeed. Daily I am around 200g of carbs and on reefed days I am over 300g+. My runs are much stronger again and I have way more energy without anymore aches. This is what works best for me since I like being active and enjoy playing sports and being outdoors doing stuff. If the weather is bad and I am working inside all day long my overall carb intake is much lower.

            On a side note, before I started upping the carbs I tried to just increase my calories from protein and fats. That went horribly for me. I felt nauseated all the time when I tried to up calories this way instead of proportionately adding in some dietary carbohydrates.
            Good words, I like your N=1. Well described. Thankfully, I seem to be able to easily eat over two pounds of meat in a sitting without hesitation, plus other foods to augment nutrition, and can easily eat far too much without any sign of nausea. This is an ability I never take for granted, as newbies file in with low body weight, weakness and thin hair because they are simply unable to eat. That said, simple carbs do sit well with me and digest just fine, so if I find out I can't be a keto athlete, I'll be all about the fruit! Or I'll just go back to exercising less, lol.
            Crohn's, doing SCD

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
              Slowly reading these now...





              Good words, I like your N=1. Well described. Thankfully, I seem to be able to easily eat over two pounds of meat in a sitting without hesitation, plus other foods to augment nutrition, and can easily eat far too much without any sign of nausea. This is an ability I never take for granted, as newbies file in with low body weight, weakness and thin hair because they are simply unable to eat. That said, simple carbs do sit well with me and digest just fine, so if I find out I can't be a keto athlete, I'll be all about the fruit! Or I'll just go back to exercising less, lol.
              Don't get me wrong I can put down large hunks of steak at any given time as well. Just as long as its not on a day when I am running or playing hoops. I tried on more than one occasion to have a fatty cut of meat after a session of intense workouts and it made me yack for hours. A banana or an apple worked so much better for me. I wish you the best of luck with your experiment and hope you succeed in being a keto athlete!
              "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

              People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                You might be right there. I've been working out more than usual, and feel draggy. But, I'm also eating at a deficit, temporarily, for the ab contest. Normally, I stuff myself silly and feel amazing. Perhaps if I stuff myself even sillier, I can have all the more fun. Will try.

                Although, this doesn't actually sound that rough...I'm up for it. Swap out the boxing for body-weight and it's on!
                i'm sure it's a combination of both. eating in a deficit and increasing your exercise is tough. and doing it while vlc seems god-awful. i'm hoping that if you do increase your exercise, your gut health is improved enough where you can tolerate a higher carb level. once the ab challenge is over and you can work your butt off and eat in a surplus, you'll see amazing changes in your body.

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                • #23
                  I always like reading your posts Knifegill (more of a lurker myself) and tend to cheer you on from my desk when there's another Peat induced war raging on here, but I would also be curious to see what your experience is when you ramp up those work-outs. VLC worked great for me initially, but as soon as I started to become serious with strength training (kettlebells from home), I felt horrible and weak. Potatoes and fruit all the way for me now, body composition and strength are only getting better.

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                  • #24
                    The Peter Attia stuff explains it really well I find - he's talking about an intensity threshold so if you cross that you need glucose, but stay within it and you can go forever on fat stores. He also talks about raising the threshold over time with a combination of clean eating and excersise, which is true - the body becoems more fat adapted over time and can do more on fat stores, but there is always a peak performance point where you're in glucogenesis, its just a question of how hard you have to go before you're in it. SWD will keep that threshold very low, so you will still be able to perform well on carbs but your quality of life is compromised - you're on that nutritional leash of needing cabrs every 2 hours.
                    Healthy is the new wealthy.

                    http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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                    • #25
                      I eat moderately low carb, certainly not VLC and not ketosis, and I tried to play ice hockey on a moderate carb day and nearly passed out. I take Gu before a game and continue with Gatorade during the game. It's really, really hard to do high intensity for any length of time on fat.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Abu Reena View Post
                        I eat moderately low carb, certainly not VLC and not ketosis, and I tried to play ice hockey on a moderate carb day and nearly passed out. I take Gu before a game and continue with Gatorade during the game. It's really, really hard to do high intensity for any length of time on fat.
                        It is hard you're right - if I was competing in a sport, which I'm not :-), I would carb up to the max to be honest, but I'd use natural carbs where possible - potatoes, bananas, etc.
                        Healthy is the new wealthy.

                        http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Don't get me wrong I can put down large hunks of steak at any given time as well. Just as long as its not on a day when I am running or playing hoops. I tried on more than one occasion to have a fatty cut of meat after a session of intense workouts and it made me yack for hours. A banana or an apple worked so much better for me. I wish you the best of luck with your experiment and hope you succeed in being a keto athlete!
                          I hope it works out, too. I can't imagine that every HG tribe in the world needed carbs! And I'm one of those huge-ribbed, stocky, thermogenic white people who, theoretically, is designed well for a cold, hunting life. It just seems that, if anybody could do it, I'd be one of them!

                          I usually fast after a workout, though, except for liquids.

                          I always like reading your posts Knifegill (more of a lurker myself) and tend to cheer you on from my desk when there's another Peat induced war raging on here, but I would also be curious to see what your experience is when you ramp up those work-outs. VLC worked great for me initially, but as soon as I started to become serious with strength training (kettlebells from home), I felt horrible and weak. Potatoes and fruit all the way for me now, body composition and strength are only getting better.
                          I've been lifting somewhat heavy and have a rather physical job, so it's possible I have an edge on ramping it up. Today I feel great, just a little sore from my experimental run yesterday. I don't feel weak or groggy or anything! But, it's still pretty early. And I plan on making rest days the exception rather than the rule here in the near future...

                          I eat moderately low carb, certainly not VLC and not ketosis, and I tried to play ice hockey on a moderate carb day and nearly passed out. I take Gu before a game and continue with Gatorade during the game. It's really, really hard to do high intensity for any length of time on fat.
                          I think I know that passing out feeling you are talking about. But once I started taking lots of electrolytes and eating more, it went away. For me. For now, lol. We'll see how I do today! I plan on doing something intense...maybe a lot of burpees or heavy lifts with my barbell - or both!


                          It is hard you're right - if I was competing in a sport, which I'm not :-), I would carb up to the max to be honest, but I'd use natural carbs where possible - potatoes, bananas, etc.
                          This will be a factor. I do not play a sport. I will have to try to emulate the experience of playing a sport on my body...
                          Crohn's, doing SCD

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Owen View Post
                            It is hard you're right - if I was competing in a sport, which I'm not :-), I would carb up to the max to be honest, but I'd use natural carbs where possible - potatoes, bananas, etc.
                            I've tried, but I can't eat for several hours before a game or I'll puke when I hit the ice. I'm a goalie and it's lots of up down activity, sprawling on the ice etc. Even a banana is too much and if I eat it early enough, it's not available for me come game time. So Gu and Gatorade it is. I put this in my 20% cheat foods.

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                            • #29
                              Sprinted again today, I don't exactly have a lot of workouts. Now I'm starting to understand the consumerism of workout videos and jumping from trend to trend - you're bored! You work out so much so often that suddenly, even though you feel fine and things are great, you just want to try something else.

                              I've also been lifting my boulder every time I go outside. Being basically alone (except for preggers wife!) really lends to stillness. Trying to make up more exercises that don't use muscles I've already worked to death is not easy.
                              Crohn's, doing SCD

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                                Sprinted again today, I don't exactly have a lot of workouts. Now I'm starting to understand the consumerism of workout videos and jumping from trend to trend - you're bored! You work out so much so often that suddenly, even though you feel fine and things are great, you just want to try something else.

                                I've also been lifting my boulder every time I go outside. Being basically alone (except for preggers wife!) really lends to stillness. Trying to make up more exercises that don't use muscles I've already worked to death is not easy.
                                excellent point about people's boredom... When i feel "bored" i just skip one workout and find that by the next one, i'm raring to go. I *think* that what i imagine is boredom is probably the verge of overtraining, and since i feel guilty my mind plays games and tells me "You're bored." Something like that (sorry, not enough caffeine yet this morning to make sense!)

                                That "stillness" is wonderful, but i know what you mean. How about a slackline? Different kind of working of muscles? I'm dying to get one, but I'm still trying to figure out where in my yard to set it up. I'm lazy and don't want to set it up then pull it down, etc. I can't use the trees in the forest behind me, unless i plan on tripping the coyotes and bears who wander through!

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