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Rippetoe's New Article on High-Rep Olympic Lifting

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  • #46
    Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks that vincebae is gorbag posting under another name? His english and grammar are bad (strike 1), he posted under a rip thread with no actual pertinent information to the topic (strike 2), and he is asking gorbag's advice on something (strike 3.)
    I hope that you are the only one.

    Thank you so much about telling about grammar issue.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and I didn't know that having bad grammar can be one reason that someone think I am a different person that who I am.
    I was just curious about his thought on strength, and I also didn't know that I should not ask "advice" to gorbag.

    Now, I read the gorbag's reply to my question, I found that he has a different philosophy from mine.
    I'm Pavel's advocate, and you should be able to find that I mentioned Pavel/RKC/SFG's works in my other postings.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by quikky View Post
      Fixed that statement for you.



      Why are power cleans/snatches fine for high reps but not full ones? Are you saying that full squatting a clean is bad, but partially squatting (i.e. power cleaning) is safe for high reps?



      Disagree. Form is always important, especially for more experienced lifters dealing with much heavier weight. If a beginner decides to get "jacked" and does some shitty clean and jerks for time with 95lb, he'll probably live. If a more advanced lifter decides to do the same with 225lb, the risk is greater. The only difference is that an experienced lifter, one that has been heavily training the Olympic lifts, will have enough of the movement pattern ingrained in them to prevent bad form degradation even when fatigue sets in. It's one thing of Dmitriy Klokov decides to screw around and do 30 clean and jerks for time, it's another if it's someone who's done some CrossFit for 3 weeks.

      Lifts are almost never perfect, but the heavier the weight, the more important the form. "Pushing the limits" by slacking on form is a good way to injure yourself.
      Again, meh. I hate arguing semantics because we agree on many things. All im saying i guess is its up to the individual to decide how far they want to push their body. Most peoples bodies are much more resilient then people think. Most can build up to an amazing work load. I also dont believe in strict set/weight routines and think people should listen to their bodies more. This goes along with that, if your form is break down horrendously then you should be smart enough to terminate the lift. On the other hand, if your form isnt perfect you should be able to know how far you can push it till injuries occure.

      Btw i have equal hate for crossfit and newbies doing asinine stuff like high rep work for time with no regard for form, just as i hate powerlifters smashing their bodies to dust just to put up a bigger total. But then again im not a coach and dont really give a shit what others do, its their life.

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      • #48
        Oh and yea, full versions of the olympic lifts require much more mobility and technique, they are way more dangerous when fatigued then the power versions.

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        • #49
          Are you really, really sure that you are not me vincebae? - because not on the rug seem to be borderline butthurt right now, and you will be in serious trouble if he find out that you are Gorbag after all...
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            Again, meh. I hate arguing semantics because we agree on many things. All im saying i guess is its up to the individual to decide how far they want to push their body. Most peoples bodies are much more resilient then people think. Most can build up to an amazing work load. I also dont believe in strict set/weight routines and think people should listen to their bodies more. This goes along with that, if your form is break down horrendously then you should be smart enough to terminate the lift. On the other hand, if your form isnt perfect you should be able to know how far you can push it till injuries occure.

            Btw i have equal hate for crossfit and newbies doing asinine stuff like high rep work for time with no regard for form, just as i hate powerlifters smashing their bodies to dust just to put up a bigger total. But then again im not a coach and dont really give a shit what others do, its their life.
            I see what you are saying here, but the idea of "knowing" how far to push bad form before you get injured is silly. Injuries can occur even with perfect form. When it's your body vs progressively heavier iron, the iron always wins. Form should be paramount for all lifters from a 1st day newb to a 25yr veteran.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by vincebae View Post
              I am interested in what you are saying about strength.
              Would you give me a more detail on your philosophy about strength training?
              If you can recommend a book, video or website, that would be great, too
              Here do you have two on the spot articles from Tim Henriques, a guy that seem to know his stuff and that I very much agree with, :

              T NATION | 6 Interesting Things About Strength=

              T NATION | Fake Strength: Stop Arching the Bench Press=
              Last edited by Gorbag; 08-27-2013, 02:47 PM.
              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

              - Schopenhauer

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                I see what you are saying here, but the idea of "knowing" how far to push bad form before you get injured is silly. Injuries can occur even with perfect form. When it's your body vs progressively heavier iron, the iron always wins. Form should be paramount for all lifters from a 1st day newb to a 25yr veteran.
                So so meh. Injuries are part of life. I dont go looking for one but i lift for the fun of lifting and nothing more so im going to push the limits more often then not. I do a lot of prehab/mobility work as well though and of course i keep my form very good for the most part. I work a lot on body mechanics and being able to move.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Zach View Post
                  So so meh. Injuries are part of life. I dont go looking for one but i lift for the fun of lifting and nothing more so im going to push the limits more often then not. I do a lot of prehab/mobility work as well though and of course i keep my form very good for the most part. I work a lot on body mechanics and being able to move.
                  So basically, your view is: proper form = meh.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by quikky View Post
                    So basically, your view is: proper form = meh.
                    Proper form from experienced lifter = meh.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Well when you've got the laundry list of injuries I've got proper form is definitely not a meh anymore. But, hey I use to shoot my hips to the sky to hit a new bench weight, or give the old heave ho on the pulldowns.... and yeah I still got stronger doing it. It's a personal call on the risk/reward aspect, but when you examine the biomechanics cheating doesnt just make the lift easier... many times it also makes it less effective in loading the muscles and causing that adaptive change we are lookin for. Course you can argue that depending on the lift and goals (strength, hypertrophy or explosive power) that a "cheat" may or may not be detrimental to what your objective is.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Course you can argue that depending on the lift and goals (strength, hypertrophy or explosive power) that a "cheat" may or may not be detrimental to what your objective is.
                        Right. Keep your ass on the bench but arch the back when you bench press and you can lift heavier weight and put all the stress on your upper body that you want. But round your back excessively on deadlifts and you'll be hurting. Rip advocates conventional deadlifts (rather than sumo, greater ROM, even if you can lift less weight), full-depth squats with a not too wide stance (rather than competitive geared lifter wide-ass stance squats), some layback on standing presses and a back arch but asscheeks on the bench for bench press for this reason. Just to toss out a few examples.
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #57
                          We were doing a 10 to 1 with push jerks and ring dips yesterday and the trainer was pushing us to lift heavy... I mean my highest push jerk is about 37.5kg and he seemed to think I should try 40... Lol I can't even clean 40!

                          But yeah, we were doing the WOD for time and it seems silly to me to push so hard for high weights! As it was I started off at 35 and had to drop to 32.5 after a few rounds as my form was complete shit...

                          Funny thing is, I saw this article in my Facebook news feed when I got home... It doesn't make sense to me to do heavy lifts for time that way!! I think I could have maintained good form with 30kg... But the trainer pretty much wouldn't have let me! He seems to think if I can do one or two reps of 35 easily it's reasonable to do such a WOD heavier even though I'm supposed to pump out many more at a fast rate!

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Iron Fireling View Post
                            We were doing a 10 to 1 with push jerks and ring dips yesterday and the trainer was pushing us to lift heavy... I mean my highest push jerk is about 37.5kg and he seemed to think I should try 40... Lol I can't even clean 40!

                            But yeah, we were doing the WOD for time and it seems silly to me to push so hard for high weights! As it was I started off at 35 and had to drop to 32.5 after a few rounds as my form was complete shit...

                            Funny thing is, I saw this article in my Facebook news feed when I got home... It doesn't make sense to me to do heavy lifts for time that way!! I think I could have maintained good form with 30kg... But the trainer pretty much wouldn't have let me! He seems to think if I can do one or two reps of 35 easily it's reasonable to do such a WOD heavier even though I'm supposed to pump out many more at a fast rate!
                            And this is why crossfit sucks. Be smart or you'll end up seriously hurt because of some dipshit "trainer"

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