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Can you get strong without deadlift?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
    Many power-lifters are almost not even deadlifting anymore
    I'm almost not deadlifting. I call it "deadlifting"

    The deadlift is important
    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
    since the lift is very taxing on CNS and lower back
    In light of my modification to your statement, I agree with it completely.

    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
    And there are lots of movements that can replace it
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    • #32
      Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
      Agreed. But assistance exercises, rep ranges, half reps like board presses, bands, chains, etc are one thing. You are still basically utilizing the same exercises. That is different than changing the programming for the sake of muscle confusion.

      I mean, look at louie simmons at westside barbell or joe defranco at defranco's gym. 2 of the most well respected strength trainers in the country, possibly in the world. They do all of the things that you mentioned as assistance work, but the basic programming remains the same
      I agree the basics are the basics for a reason.

      Anyhow, any of you deadlifters do so in the slightly higher rep range? Like 6-10? I was doing drop sets the other day and damn is that a killer range to hit.

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      • #33
        I admit that deadlifting can be fun though - adrenaline rushing through the veins - and it is make it or break it! If failing on a big pull the lower back can be messed up for weeks or months afterwards or maybe cripple a lifter forever... But as the twins use to say; "do the F**K whatever you want", LOL...
        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

        - Schopenhauer

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          I agree the basics are the basics for a reason.

          Anyhow, any of you deadlifters do so in the slightly higher rep range? Like 6-10? I was doing drop sets the other day and damn is that a killer range to hit.
          I was working in the 8-10 rep range for a while, but have gone to the 5 rep range with it in the past few months

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            Anyhow, any of you deadlifters do so in the slightly higher rep range? Like 6-10? I was doing drop sets the other day and damn is that a killer range to hit.
            I would not recommend a higher rep range on deadlift due to accumulated fatigue in lower back and hamstrings. Deadlift is safest in the 1 - 5 range and with full mental concentration. When form breaks down, then you have already made it too far for that lift...
            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

            - Schopenhauer

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
              I would not recommend a higher rep range on deadlift due to accumulated fatigue in lower back and hamstrings. Deadlift is safest in the 1 - 5 range and with full mental concentration. When form breaks down, then you have already made it too far for that lift...
              I don't "rep" it out for time. I always do deadlift as a rest pause. At least a full breath cycle to reset my tension and valsalva before each rep. My low back health is very important to me

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                I don't "rep" it out for time. I always do deadlift as a rest pause. At least a full breath cycle to reset my tension and valsalva before each rep. My low back health is very important to me
                And that's the correct way to do it, resetting the lift between every rep! People using the floor as a trampoline to get momentum are just fooling themselves, since "deadlift" means lifting from the dead position...
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

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                • #38
                  sbhikes, I know I said you could get strong, but not AS strong without deadlifting, but let me clarify a touch:

                  You might not max out your genetic potential for strength without deadlifting, but you might well approach that genetic potential. The amount of difference might not be a big deal--that is to say: you might not get as strong as humanly possible with whatever factors you possess (age/height/genetics/etc), but you can get damn strong without them. Probably "strong enough".

                  If you figure out how to keep doing them injury-free, by all means do so. If you don't want to do them, don't, and work around them. You're doing great.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                    Deadlift is overrated and has now to days become a staple for cross-fitters and other wannabe muscle heads! Many power-lifters are almost not even deadlifting anymore outside of the meets, since the lift is very taxing on CNS and lower back, and may set you back on other lifts. And there are lots of movements that can replace it…

                    What would be your recommendations for good replacements?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
                      What would be your recommendations for good replacements?
                      It depends on your goals and the rest of your routine! But generally; doing both squats and deadlifts is a bit of a overkill for the lower back, so doing rack pulls from below the knees instead will give less impact on lower back and give you a stronger pull for your upper body since you can use more weight. In additition you can supplement with bent legged good mornings and reverse machine hack squats for strength in butt and hamstring etc., but it all depends on what your goals are...
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

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                      • #41
                        I read in Ferris that a coach to a woman's team makes his players (it's either soccer or football team, can't remember which, with the American terms) to lift to the knees only and drop. IIRC he does it to spare legs, but I am wondering if it will be LB sparing as well. However, when my PT reset my form, I found that back pain was from the 'ass waving in the air' error. It taxes flexibility to do a proper pull for me, so I was slipping into stiffer legs. Not any more. I sacrificed a lot of weight on a lift, but my back is happy!
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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Leida View Post
                          I read in Ferris that a coach to a woman's team makes his players (it's either soccer or football team, can't remember which, with the American terms) to lift to the knees only and drop. IIRC he does it to spare legs, but I am wondering if it will be LB sparing as well. However, when my PT reset my form, I found that back pain was from the 'ass waving in the air' error. It taxes flexibility to do a proper pull for me, so I was slipping into stiffer legs. Not any more. I sacrificed a lot of weight on a lift, but my back is happy!
                          The back is hugely involved in breaking the weight off the floor. I don't see how doing half reps is a solution to back issues.

                          What is the "ass waving in the air" error? I never heard of such a thing. Are you saying that deadlifting with high hips is an error? Because you can't do a heavy deadlift any other way. You can start with your butt low, but if you video tape a heavy rep, you'll find your hips come up before the bar comes off the floor. Because they must.
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                          • #43
                            I like deadlifts....I thought part of the point of it was to strengthen your back and core (among other things)? I do feel most things in my back a bit- squats and deadlift.

                            That said, it would freak me out of something popped or pulled.

                            Randomly, our coach was explaining sumo deadlifts and pointed out it was similar to the movement of a box squat, just with the weight on your back. Might be something to consider.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                              Tell that to strongmen, powerlifters, olympic lifters, professional athletes, or basically anyone who knows a thing about actual strength
                              I'd be telling them something they already know. Been doing strength training for years, worked with some of the best. Athletes in all sports employ periodization, continually updating, changing and challenging themselves with new techniques, exercises and diets.
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                              • #45
                                Hey sbhikes,
                                Canucks advice seems the best. Vary it up girl.
                                The big problem I see with amateurs lifting iron (meaning non comp lifters) is that we use lifts to gauge strength increases. (Like using only scales to measure our success in recovery from obesity). Use something a bit more ubiquitous to measure strength gains like, how fast can you drive up that hill on your bicycle (uses posterior chain).

                                The reason I find this so, is due to stress mechanics. The longer you ask your body to adapt to a specific stress (deadlift) the closer you need to get to the damage threshold to continue to see gains. Getting closer to your damage threshold means longer rest periods, but most protocols don't adjust for this (eg you lift M,W,F no matter what). So eventually your lifting when you haven't finished recovering from your last lift, do this regularly and you'll start Chronicly stressing yourself. Chronic stressing has the effect of slowly lowering your damage threshold, one time you'll go to lift the same weight you've been lifting for months and POP there goes something, because your damage threshold lowered more than the weights you where lifting.

                                If I where to do deadlifts I would measure their effects on my body by going for bike ride or climbing a steep trail. I would vary the protocol thus; my reps would for a particular session I would choose somewhere between 2 and 10 reps (change it every time). I would estimate a weight to put on the bar that will challenge me in that rep range. As I lift, if I can't make the reps I would stop so I don't cause damage. If it was too easy, keep going until spent. If this happened keep a mental note so you can dail in the correct weights next time you attempt the lift. One set is all I would do and recover as long as you need, could be a day, could be a week. Over recovery can also be fantastic as well, this is where you have fully recovered but still don't lift for a few more days yet.

                                Anyway hope you recover quickly and when you do, don't go back to a strict lifting protocol (like dieting hey), good luck.


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