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Can you get strong without deadlift?

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  • #16
    Deadlifts are my favorite exercise. However, they are certainly not necessary to get strong.

    Here's an article by JC Deen that might help you out a bit: RDL
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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    • #17
      I mean there I am, starting rep 3 when all of a sudden everything just shifted in my whole body, there were three rapid very loud cracking noises in the lower part of my spine, almost like the whole thing was being stretched apart. It was very scary, felt both like relief of some pressure I didn't know I had plus a sickening feeling. It's just too easy to mess up and now I'm afraid.
      that sounds nasty! i've never thankfully had anything like that happen. my 2 cents worth. i find if i jump up weights, my form can go. good example. i was deadlifting this week and added 5 kgs on. i deadlift a barbell not an olympic bar with plates so i do a very deep deadlift. more like a cross between a squat and a deadlift. once the weight bumped up i started feeling it in my hammies as i wasnt going down so low. so i had to really concentrate on getting right down low and coming up properly. i always do 10 - 15 reps of whatever i am doing but from memory you do less? so maybe build up reps at a lower weight before you go up any? i also do weighted good mornings which i have read helped strengthen your back against dead lift damage.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by quikky View Post
        Are you saying variety is required to keep gaining strength? Are you also encouraging someone to switch their routine, even if it is working for them, after a 6 week period?
        Generally yes, however common sense applies. If you are making good gains then certainly stick with what you are doing until the gains stop or you feel stale. However it has been my experience that after the first 3 to 4 months - usually when you make the most progress - results come slower and changing the program, hitting the muscles from different angles, varying your macros etc will be necessary to get your body to improve and overcome sticking points.
        Last edited by canuck416; 07-19-2013, 03:46 PM.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by seaweed View Post
          that sounds nasty! i've never thankfully had anything like that happen. my 2 cents worth. i find if i jump up weights, my form can go. good example. i was deadlifting this week and added 5 kgs on. i deadlift a barbell not an olympic bar with plates so i do a very deep deadlift. more like a cross between a squat and a deadlift. once the weight bumped up i started feeling it in my hammies as i wasnt going down so low. so i had to really concentrate on getting right down low and coming up properly. i always do 10 - 15 reps of whatever i am doing but from memory you do less? so maybe build up reps at a lower weight before you go up any? i also do weighted good mornings which i have read helped strengthen your back against dead lift damage.
          I have been deadlifting below the level of using the big plates for so long that deadlifting low feels more normal. With the big plates it is harder to start so high. Perhaps that is all I need to do, deadlift at reps of 10 so that the weight is never close to a maximum for me. Maybe I should do that on everything.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            Thank you. I thought I had the form all dialed in. I've got layers of shin bruises to show for it. But somehow it is too easy to slip in the middle of the lift or something. I mean there I am, starting rep 3 when all of a sudden everything just shifted in my whole body, there were three rapid very loud cracking noises in the lower part of my spine, almost like the whole thing was being stretched apart. It was very scary, felt both like relief of some pressure I didn't know I had plus a sickening feeling. It's just too easy to mess up and now I'm afraid.

            I have long forearms, not short. I suppose I should do the trap bar deadlifts. How much does the trap bar weigh?
            I had same thing happen, exactly. Was following SL 5x5 at the time. It was on my 5th rep when my back went out. Heard the cracking and all. My legs went numb, I went into a cold sweat and felt instantly sick. I managed to get to a bench and sat there for a few minutes wondering how bad I F'ed myself up. I could barely walk out of the gym... 2 days later I finally went to chiropractor still in pain and diagnosed with a back sprain.

            I was scared to DL again, but knew I wanted to do them again. About 3 weeks after injury I started back up using bar only. I've slowly added weight again up to 135 lbs, but haven't gone past 135. I just do more reps at that weight. I'm sure at some point I will add more weight, but my focus really isn't strength as it is a nice rear end Plus, I really don't want to injure myself again.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
              Generally yes, however common sense applies. If you are making good gains then certainly stick with what you are doing until the gains stop or you feel stale. However it has been my experience that after the firs 3 to 4 months - usually when you usually make the most progress - results come slower and changing the program, hitting the muscles from different angles, varying your macros etc will be necessary to get your body to improve and overcome sticking points.
              Tell that to strongmen, powerlifters, olympic lifters, professional athletes, or basically anyone who knows a thing about actual strength training

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              • #22
                Once I was doing deadlifts, when on rep 2 I felt a pop around the bottom of my ribs in back. It didn't hurt so I finished the set. But then I noticed that I couldn't breathe deeply or turn to the right. A few hours later I was able to take a very deep breath, and I felt another pop. Everything was fine by my next deadlift session.
                "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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                • #23
                  Have you tried to stop and reset between each rep, instead of going continuously? I find that this brief pause to refocus helps with preventing LB problems.
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
                    Generally yes, however common sense applies. If you are making good gains then certainly stick with what you are doing until the gains stop or you feel stale. However it has been my experience that after the firs 3 to 4 months - usually when you usually make the most progress - results come slower and changing the program, hitting the muscles from different angles, varying your macros etc will be necessary to get your body to improve and overcome sticking points.
                    If you're working with barbells, you don't need different exercises or to "hit your muscles at different angles". There are two reasons why people stall:

                    1. Recovery. They are not eating/resting enough.
                    2. Programming. Doing too much or too little to drive progress. This is also tied to point #1.

                    The more advanced a trainee you are, the more important these points become. If you've never touched weights, you can do anything and make yourself stronger. The reason why people stall after a few months is because the novice effect of training wears off, and 1 & 2 are wrong so they think they need to "switch it up". You can become a competitive strength athlete by only doing squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, bench presses, and chin-ups. Many people have.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                      Tell that to strongmen, powerlifters, olympic lifters, professional athletes, or basically anyone who knows a thing about actual strength training
                      I mean its gonna be individual, but strongmen and powerlifters vary their stuff quite a bit from the stuff I've seen. Rep ranges, accessory work, splits. Nobody stays on the same program forever. Hell 5/3/1 is the definition of varying your program. Saw a whole lot on using chains, bands, glute/ham raises and box squats to improve your dead lift pulls written and performed by advanced strong men. From a strongman aspect you also gotta consider how varied their program really is just from practicing for the event. Lifting atlas stones, farmers walks, towing shit.... Lots of stuff that sits outside your big 4 lifts. From what I saw there are lots of tweaks to get you through plateaus. Sure you probably dont need any of that till your hitting intermediate/advanced status though.
                      Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-19-2013, 09:07 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        I mean its gonna be individual, but strongmen and powerlifters vary their stuff quite a bit from the stuff I've seen. Rep ranges, accessory work, splits. Nobody stays on the same program forever.
                        Programming varies. The exercises - not so much. If you're a strength athlete, you're going to squat. It doesn't matter how novice or advanced you are, but you will squat, or you will not be competitive. Whether you are doing 3x5, or 5x5, 1x5, or 20x1, or squats with chains, or box squats, or once a week PR, or once a month PR, you will still do squats and they will be one of your core building blocks of strength.

                        I'm talking more about "variety" and "muscle confusion" and other type of broscience. If your squats stalled, it doesn't mean it's time for the leg press, or walking lunges, or leg curls because you're muscles are too used to squats; it means your recovery and/or programming need a change. The basic barbell exercises can make you as strong as you can be, and your muscles won't need to get confused.

                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Hell 5/3/1 is the definition of varying your program. Saw a whole lot on using chains, bands, glute/ham raises and box squats to improve your dead lift pulls written and performed by advanced strong men. From a strongman aspect you also gotta consider how varied their program really is just from practicing for the event. Lifting atlas stones, farmers walks, toeing shit.... Lots of stuff that sits outside your big 4 lifts. From what I saw there are lots of tweaks to get you through plateaus. Sure you probably dont need any of that till your hitting intermediate/advanced status though.
                        You need to do specialized training for your sport, but the core strength training is still all around basic barbell lifts. A strongman develops massive lifting strength from squats and deadlifts, and then practices using that strength on stones. You'll have a heck of a time trying to become competitive in strongman by just doing strongman stuff.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                          I mean its gonna be individual, but strongmen and powerlifters vary their stuff quite a bit from the stuff I've seen. Rep ranges, accessory work, splits. Nobody stays on the same program forever. Hell 5/3/1 is the definition of varying your program. Saw a whole lot on using chains, bands, glute/ham raises and box squats to improve your dead lift pulls written and performed by advanced strong men. From a strongman aspect you also gotta consider how varied their program really is just from practicing for the event. Lifting atlas stones, farmers walks, towing shit.... Lots of stuff that sits outside your big 4 lifts. From what I saw there are lots of tweaks to get you through plateaus. Sure you probably dont need any of that till your hitting intermediate/advanced status though.
                          Agreed. But assistance exercises, rep ranges, half reps like board presses, bands, chains, etc are one thing. You are still basically utilizing the same exercises. That is different than changing the programming for the sake of muscle confusion.

                          I mean, look at louie simmons at westside barbell or joe defranco at defranco's gym. 2 of the most well respected strength trainers in the country, possibly in the world. They do all of the things that you mentioned as assistance work, but the basic programming remains the same

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
                            Can you get strong? Yes. Can you get AS strong? Probably not.
                            Yep.

                            But if back pain is an issue, I strongly recommend a sumo-style stance and NOT using an over/under grip and only using double-overhand. I used to hurt my back doing over/under. It forces you to stand slightly off-balance since one arm is slightly shorter than the other using this grip. Since double-overhand maintains perfect symmetry, I've had much more success.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                            • #29
                              sbhikes:

                              I would really try to identify the reason for your injury. If I had to guess, I would imagine you are not setting your spine into proper alignment and/or not keeping it there during the lift.

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                              • #30
                                Deadlift is overrated and has now to days become a staple for cross-fitters and other wannabe muscle heads! Many power-lifters are almost not even deadlifting anymore outside of the meets, since the lift is very taxing on CNS and lower back, and may set you back on other lifts. And there are lots of movements that can replace itů

                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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