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  • #16
    Very few people know the difference between their, they're, there, and thurr.

    Sent via A-10 Warthog

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    • #17
      Bruce Lee was a street fighter. He and other kids would go to the rooftops and have all out brawls. No rules. Daddy put him in Wing Chun I believe to help keep him out of trouble. Can't remember why he got out of it but he did get the idea to add from all fighting styles.

      He believed that real life fighting follows no set patterns and is very chaotic so his art would take ANYTHING from all of the martial arts and use them.

      he was invited to a martial arts tournament, watched for a while, saw the katas (pre-arranged moves) and was asked what he thought. He basically said this stuff will get them killed on the streets. Lee knew most trained fighters, especially martial artists, were conditioned to follow patterns whereas the way he put Jeet Kune Do together, it was designed for real life no pattern following, chaotic fight.

      Lee was a street fighter who picked up or adopted what he thought would work in a real life or death situation on the street. Lee was able to change his fighting to whatever the situation called for. Crazy attacks, martial artists attacking as they have been trained to do, whatever.

      Jeet Kune Do worked pretty good for the son of Bruce Lee, Brandon Lee, in a REAL LIFE situation. It is quoted below.

      Speaking of Brandon Lee it says..."He's confident, intense and direct, and a lot of people find that intimidating."

      Including, no doubt, the burglar who broke into Lee's pad two years ago, confronting him with a kitchen knife. "You want to put that thing down," intoned the lean (6', 160-lb.), mean Lee, who, at age 2, was taught the martial art of Jeet Kune Do by his father. The intruder lunged anyway, slashing Lee on his left arm but receiving, in turn, a separated shoulder and a broken arm."

      Son of Bruce Breaks Loose : People.com

      Seems like it works pretty good in real life if one trains properly.

      Comment


      • #18
        Hola!


        Believe it or not I own a Mixed Martial Arts studio in the Northwest called The Source Academy.

        We do several disciplines of fitness and MMA:

        Western Boxing
        Gracie Jiu Jitsu
        Muay Thai (kickboxing)
        Okinawan Kenpo Karate
        Filipino Martial Arts (escrima & Kali)
        Jeet Kune Do
        Tai Chi/ Qi Gong

        We have authorized instructors who are directly certified by the founders in most of those. For instance our Jiu Jitsu is taught by a man named Anibal Lobo who moved to the United States with Rickson Gracie. I personally have about 25 years practicing and teaching martial arts...

        And I just told you all that to hopefully lend credibility to my answer. There's a lot of great ideas in this thread:

        1. Sparring - is necessary for development and to "prove" self defense
        2. Stick with something solid, 2 days a week is great, if you really want to absorb what you're doing 3 days is optimal. All the students I have who train 3/4 days per week are leagues better than my weekend warriors and people only coming twice. Hitting the bag in your garage does not count as one of the days, but it helps! You'd probably see a gain if you did 2 days of class and a garage day
        3. Do something APPLICABLE, I'm not knocking your art or choice of Hapkido and I'll get more into this in a seoncd:


        Back to sparring: This ties into everything, you don't need to go to a place where everyone is going to try and kill you or break your limbs. In fact I would steer clear of any place promoting a mentality like that. I have worked with UFC fighters and several other coaches of prominence, NONE of them have promoted a rough violent attitude while training. Watch some pros sparring on Youtube and you'll get the idea. They aren't trying to kill each other they are trying to be TECHNICAL and LEARN. That's the environment you want. IT also has to accomplish a sense of realism in some way shape or form with the OPTION to increase the intensity.

        Be on the lookout for a place where the long term students can easily and handily work over the new recruits with little to no effort. If someone claims to be a black belt of this or that, they should be able to prove it by barely putting energy into their techniques and easily scoring or diffusing an attack. Any amazing Gracie Jiu Jitsu coach will be able to do this, as would a pro Boxer. If the black belts or high level people (sometimes there's no belts) have to get "tough" to beat the new students it usually is a sign of a lack of knowledge

        Which leads me to point 3. Applicable training should provide these results, it should be effective, you should be able to spar with it in a controlled manner, it should deliver self defense, and the people who claim to be highly skilled should be able to perform these moves against resisting beginners with ease. IF the place is really sharp, the beginner can actually have a background in another style, be a wrestler, etc... and the top students should still be able to perform. Never listen to "oh that's not my style" or "it doesn't work in that situation." That can be an answer, but if its a common one, get out of there fast.

        If you are content and you feel satisifed that's great. 90% of authentic training will work in the street for self defense when it's done correctly. There's a simple saying in this field that goes "you have to make it work." There aren't any secrets and the knowledge of something like Muay Thai isn't going to save you unless you practice it, spar it, and develop it on your own under guidance.

        If you look for something like an MMA school, look for a place that has an education with credentials in everything they teach. Don't settle on "it's a mixed progressive style." That's a load of BS! Even if they have fighters, are they winners? And are they qualified in Muay Thai, Wrestling, AND Jiu Jitsu. If they teach MMA and are only educated as a wrestler the other areas usually suffer. In fact at our place no one person can do it all and we have about 10 different coaches on staff.


        Good luck! Martial arts can be a fantastic and rewarding journey, the one thing I hate seeing in the sport is regret after someone has trained at a lackluster place. Just don't waste your time and money and GET what you're paying for and you're well on your way.


        /end excited rant!
        Living the dream - One life at a time!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Kakti
          Some of the Gracie family has worked with them (karls students). They admt that they were shocked and are intimidated to fight bare-knuckle.
          I doubt that's what they said. Are you familiar with the Gracie Challenge? UFC 1 & 2?

          Originally posted by Kakti
          As while Karl admits he would never step his ass into a ring because he would get demolished. Karl sure as hell doesn't knock people out, submit them, break-bones, or bust peoples lips. I assure you your understaning of the human body is limited compared to karls...
          So what is it that he does?

          Originally posted by Kakti
          The path we walk doesn't neccesarly get one "there" the fastest, but we stand behind the integrity we persue.
          If that makes you feel better about doing something silly, continue.

          Originally posted by Kakti
          Besides don't most cage fighting MA pare people up with relitivly similur weight?
          Google "UFC 1." or Royce Gracie vs. Akebono. Or Rickson Gracie vs. David Levicki.

          Originally posted by Kakti
          I weigh 125. From your perspective do you think that will help me in "real life" if theirs some that weight 200 plus? not to mention maybe multiple attackers? just curious....
          More than tippy-tapping a block of wood? Hell to the yes. Is it a guarantee of success? Of course not. But if live training doesn't have the answer, that doesn't justify silly bullshit.

          Originally posted by Kakti
          As you can see in a more updated video of karl (below) has been going through with some fasting and such: disolving muscle so he can persue expressing that strength is likely not the best option....
          But he knows so much more than me about the human body...

          Originally posted by Kakti
          The wooden-dummy like saoi before can help build a kinesthetic awareness of the skeletel system. when one strikes the dense wood vibrations go through the body to the floor. with much mindfullness this awareness develops. In order for one to be relaxed and move their body as fast as can be the most fluidly as possible the positioning of the skeletel structure is crucial. without support more effort is "robbed" by the muscles. Also taking away from the minds ability to concentrate. Besides, when a muscle is tensed ones joints are more "locked" to varring degrees; making it much easier to be controled.
          Sorry, this has all the earmarks of pseudoscience. It sounds like the same things people say about tarot cards and chakras and crystals to me. Show me proof, besides more videos of a guy slowly touching a block of wood.

          Originally posted by Kakti
          Theres a hell of a lot more to it, but i've had eneogh for now. dont want to waist my time, granted you might not even be interested.
          No offense, but you're not being very persuasive, which isn't helping my level of interest in what you have to say.

          Originally posted by Kakti
          Karl can stand roughly 10 feet away from most people and stare eye to eye. having them on their ass before they can detect movement. You look and tell yourself you see patty-cake. convincing yourself you see what there is to see will only inhibit what there is to be gained.
          To part 1 of this: Where's that video?
          To part 2: Thanks, Yoda

          Originally posted by Kakti
          I look up to what he's tought me a lot like mentioned. Regardless if It helps me when a fight. I have no ambition to try to assert my ways, or prove they are better. I just wanted to present a different perspective, for others to decide if it has value to them. Unlike many here, my life is on the other end of the "vortex" I dont go to gyms to try to put my self in positions of resistance to build muscle. Rather, for the last past 8 years I have loaded the big 53's you see on the free way, 3 a night- 5 days a week. Learning about structure and the path of least resistance has improved my life tremendously. Taking strain away giving me time and energy to do things I rather do. At this point I could care less for my self if I ever can whip some ass.
          You learned how to load trucks by doing a patty-cake dance with a wood block? Even if that's true, was that the most efficient way for you to learn to load trucks efficiently?

          Originally posted by Kakti
          Again I don't percieve my way is better. just wanted to share different perspective. I want you/anyone to persue the path they seek. Just dont convice yourself you know- this leeds to blindness. Theres much more then meets the eye, I assure you.
          Is that supposed to be a commentary on my chosen training methodology? I assure you nobody claims to have all the answers, the Gracies themselves included.

          Originally posted by Kakti
          persue your own integrity!!!!!
          I would argue that those that train against full resistance, eliminating what doesn't work and keeping what's successful is pursuing integrity much more than making specious claims with no evidence and no way to know whether the techniques you're teaching are truly effective.
          The Champagne of Beards

          Comment


          • #20
            lets not turn the thread into martial arguments, let's help out the OP find the right way of training for themselves. If you're happy where you're at and have explored it to the fullest then be satisfied in your pursuit without having to defend it or put others down.
            Living the dream - One life at a time!

            Comment


            • #21
              Oh, my, this grew.

              Thank you everyone for the discussion and answers - I understand it a little bit better now. I doubt I will ever be to any kind of level where I would even want to spar, so I need something more docile. But I can see how increasing the # of sessions per week is what I need to do. I think I will sign up for two additional lessons of aikido a month and see if that works better for me & if I am not interested in that program, I might give a shot to the taekwando studio. But it could be that I just cannot fit it in at this time & simply box with the bag whenever I get over the shy spell and talk one of the gym monitors to help me to hook it up.
              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tekshow View Post
                Hola!


                Believe it or not I own a Mixed Martial Arts studio in the Northwest called The Source Academy.

                We do several disciplines of fitness and MMA:

                Western Boxing
                Gracie Jiu Jitsu
                Muay Thai (kickboxing)
                Okinawan Kenpo Karate
                Filipino Martial Arts (escrima & Kali)
                Jeet Kune Do
                Tai Chi/ Qi Gong

                We have authorized instructors who are directly certified by the founders in most of those. For instance our Jiu Jitsu is taught by a man named Anibal Lobo who moved to the United States with Rickson Gracie. I personally have about 25 years practicing and teaching martial arts...

                And I just told you all that to hopefully lend credibility to my answer. There's a lot of great ideas in this thread:

                1. Sparring - is necessary for development and to "prove" self defense
                2. Stick with something solid, 2 days a week is great, if you really want to absorb what you're doing 3 days is optimal. All the students I have who train 3/4 days per week are leagues better than my weekend warriors and people only coming twice. Hitting the bag in your garage does not count as one of the days, but it helps! You'd probably see a gain if you did 2 days of class and a garage day
                3. Do something APPLICABLE, I'm not knocking your art or choice of Hapkido and I'll get more into this in a seoncd:


                Back to sparring: This ties into everything, you don't need to go to a place where everyone is going to try and kill you or break your limbs. In fact I would steer clear of any place promoting a mentality like that. I have worked with UFC fighters and several other coaches of prominence, NONE of them have promoted a rough violent attitude while training. Watch some pros sparring on Youtube and you'll get the idea. They aren't trying to kill each other they are trying to be TECHNICAL and LEARN. That's the environment you want. IT also has to accomplish a sense of realism in some way shape or form with the OPTION to increase the intensity.

                Be on the lookout for a place where the long term students can easily and handily work over the new recruits with little to no effort. If someone claims to be a black belt of this or that, they should be able to prove it by barely putting energy into their techniques and easily scoring or diffusing an attack. Any amazing Gracie Jiu Jitsu coach will be able to do this, as would a pro Boxer. If the black belts or high level people (sometimes there's no belts) have to get "tough" to beat the new students it usually is a sign of a lack of knowledge

                Which leads me to point 3. Applicable training should provide these results, it should be effective, you should be able to spar with it in a controlled manner, it should deliver self defense, and the people who claim to be highly skilled should be able to perform these moves against resisting beginners with ease. IF the place is really sharp, the beginner can actually have a background in another style, be a wrestler, etc... and the top students should still be able to perform. Never listen to "oh that's not my style" or "it doesn't work in that situation." That can be an answer, but if its a common one, get out of there fast.

                If you are content and you feel satisifed that's great. 90% of authentic training will work in the street for self defense when it's done correctly. There's a simple saying in this field that goes "you have to make it work." There aren't any secrets and the knowledge of something like Muay Thai isn't going to save you unless you practice it, spar it, and develop it on your own under guidance.

                If you look for something like an MMA school, look for a place that has an education with credentials in everything they teach. Don't settle on "it's a mixed progressive style." That's a load of BS! Even if they have fighters, are they winners? And are they qualified in Muay Thai, Wrestling, AND Jiu Jitsu. If they teach MMA and are only educated as a wrestler the other areas usually suffer. In fact at our place no one person can do it all and we have about 10 different coaches on staff.


                Good luck! Martial arts can be a fantastic and rewarding journey, the one thing I hate seeing in the sport is regret after someone has trained at a lackluster place. Just don't waste your time and money and GET what you're paying for and you're well on your way.


                /end excited rant!
                I somehow scrolled right by this before. Great post. +eleventy.
                The Champagne of Beards

                Comment


                • #23
                  I live in a city that's not really that safe. My self-defense training has certainly come in handy. Some asshole tried to rob me one time (I was walking home from the gym at 11 pm, listening to an audiobook on my ipod and not paying attention, which gave him the perfect opportunity). He basically came up behind me and dragged me to the ground (this is their strategy--I know b/c that was the second time someone tried to rob me and the first guy also dragged me to the ground). So in close quarters (the guy was right next to me) and on the ground, the thing to do is to go for their eyes. I calmly, with one arm defended my bag (kept him from getting into my bag), and with my mouth took the glove off my right hand (it was winter), then I stuck my fingers into his eye. I would have dug out his eyeball, but he jumped up and ran away.

                  So that's not martial arts at all, obviously, but the classes I took had a martial arts component and a self-defense component. The self-defense stuff is what you use in real life. Going for the eyes, the throat (windpipe), and things like that. And not freaking out when something happens.

                  We practiced things like what to do when someone grabs you from behind. How to get away. In the end, if you're female and not a highly trained, super awesome martial artist, and you're in a situation where you have to fight a man, in real life, it's all about playing dirty. Getting your fingers in their eye, kicking them in the shin/knee, punching them in throat, biting them, and stuff. Fun times.
                  Last edited by diene; 07-17-2013, 07:42 AM.

                  My journal

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                    Thanks, Yoda
                    Bought in to the nonsense, he has...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by diene View Post
                      I live in a city that's not really that safe. My self-defense training has certainly come in handy. Some asshole tried to rob me one time (I was walking home from the gym at 11 pm, listening to an audiobook on my ipod and not paying attention, which gave him the perfect opportunity). He basically came up behind me and dragged me to the ground (this is their strategy--I know b/c that was the second time someone tried to rob me and the first guy also dragged me to the ground). So in close quarters (the guy was right next to me) and on the ground, the thing to do is to go for their eyes. I calmly, with one arm defended my bag (kept him from getting into my bag), and with my mouth took the glove off my right hand (it was winter), then I stuck my fingers into his eye. I would have dug out his eyeball, but he jumped up and ran away.

                      So that's not martial arts at all, obviously, but the classes I took had a martial arts component and a self-defense component. The self-defense stuff is what you use in real life. Going for the eyes, the throat (windpipe), and things like that. And not freaking out when something happens.

                      We practiced things like what to do when someone grabs you from behind. How to get away. In the end, if you're female and not a highly trained, super awesome martial artist, and you're in a situation where you have to fight a man, in real life, it's all about playing dirty. Getting your fingers in their eye, kicking them in the shin/knee, punching them in throat, biting them, and stuff. Fun times.
                      If you were walking down the street at night with headphones in, then your self defense course failed you miserably. Or you are an idiot. Situational awareness is lesson #1. And lesson #2. You are lucky the person trying to rob you didn't have more evil intentions. Or a weapon. Or both

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                        If you were walking down the street at night with headphones in, then your self defense course failed you miserably. Or you are an idiot. Situational awareness is lesson #1. And lesson #2. You are lucky the person trying to rob you didn't have more evil intentions. Or a weapon. Or both
                        Yeah, I know. We're taught situational awareness too, but I'm an idiot. My idiocy is underscored by the fact that this has happened to me twice. The first time I didn't even have headphones on, just wasn't paying attention. I'm one of those people who has a hard time paying attention to their surroundings.

                        My journal

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                        • #27
                          Self defence? Here is how the old school woman practised and trained to defend themselves:

                          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                          - Schopenhauer

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by diene View Post
                            Yeah, I know. We're taught situational awareness too, but I'm an idiot. My idiocy is underscored by the fact that this has happened to me twice. The first time I didn't even have headphones on, just wasn't paying attention. I'm one of those people who has a hard time paying attention to their surroundings.
                            Time to move to a new neighborhood.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Leida, my background in martial arts covers TKD, JKD, (Filipino) Modern Arnis, jujitsu techniques. With the exception of TKD all the rest of my training was withing the same group of people emphasizing self defense. On the physical side of self defense you need to asses your ability to fight of an attacker. If your teacher isn't showing you how to fight dirty and use weapons you're not learning self defense (pepper spray, knife, handgun - get trained if you choose to incorporate any weapon).

                              Before you ever get to an actual encounter (hopefully you won't ever have to deal with that) you have to get yourself psychologically prepared. If right now the thought of using a knife or gun to protect yourself is repulsive...maybe you should work on that. I'm skeptical of some of Col Dave Grossman's statistics stuff but overall I do when it comes to his philosophical/psychological arguments. Grossman was West Point psychologist. Youtube him. Two of his books, I'm told, are required reading by US Marines.

                              In "self-defense" you are always at the disadvantage because you cant initiate the encounter no matter how sure you are of being marked (and you cannot retreat).
                              Situational awareness is key but most martial arts instructors never focus on that. Go to the local police department and ask them which places/areas you should avoid and at what times of day. There are apps you can download that give the location of sex offenders near you (AlertID is free but also give weather and other crime alerts). I first learned about these apps from a retired police officer. He said they look someone up near them and go to the restaurant where the person worked, "sure enough there he was."

                              Dollars to dimes I'd wager you instructor is not only not qualified to teach you about reading body language but hasn't even mentioned resources for you to search. This MA school, InstinctiveSystems, teaches scenario-based Pre-Incident Indicators (PINs) https://www.youtube.com/results?clie...-8&sa=N&tab=w1 All the body language in this video preceded an attack/assault https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoQ1sJOEKCM

                              <Edit> In the beginning, your friends/family may think you're paranoid studying this stuff but once you get down it become as instinctive as the physical techniques you're attempting to learn now and you don't have to think about it much. It's "brain patterning."
                              Last edited by Scott F; 07-17-2013, 10:12 AM.
                              Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                                Time to move to a new neighborhood.
                                You're absolutely right. I hate this place. I'm from CA originally, and I plan on moving back there soon. The Bay Area (at least parts of the Bay Area that I'm likely to frequent) is so much safer. Socialist as hell, but the weather is awesome.

                                My journal

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