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How fast can your body realistically get stronger?

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  • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Nowadays I think pulling 500# is the baseline. When I pull that, I'll probably still think I'm not strong enough.
    Strong enough for what? I don't think you're ever done. People call Mehdi a "weak fuck" for deadlifting 500 at 165.
    "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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    • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
      Strong enough for what? I don't think you're ever done. People call Mehdi a "weak fuck" for deadlifting 500 at 165.
      I pulled 415 at 166, and never considered myself overly strong. and really didn't have any idea how to train back then. in fact, I basically trained like a bodybuilder (sets of 8-10 reps, tons of volume, etc), and read muscle and fitness and flex magazines. I had no idea who louie simmons or mark rippetoe was back then.

      i just checked exrx.net. 520 would be in the "elite" category for a 165-er. the raw world record at 165 is 716lbs. so for someone who makes a living talking about lifting weights, 500 is pretty weak.

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      • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
        Strong enough for what? I don't think you're ever done.
        Wasn't that my point?

        Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
        People call Mehdi a "weak fuck" for deadlifting 500 at 165.
        Mehdi isn't weak, but he's not particularly strong either. Ed Coan was strong.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
          i just checked exrx.net. 520 would be in the "elite" category for a 165-er. the raw world record at 165 is 716lbs. so for someone who makes a living talking about lifting weights, 500 is pretty weak.
          I was going to say that Rippetoe would also be considered weak by those standards, deadlifting 633 at 220. But it turns out that "elite" for 220 is only 585. I'm surprised that an extra 55 pounds of bodyweight is only supposed to buy you an extra 65 pounds on your deadlift.
          "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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          • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            Mehdi isn't weak, but he's not particularly strong either. Ed Coan was strong.
            It's not really a fair comparison. Ed Coan was a competitive powerlifter on steroids. Mehdi is an online marketer who couldn't do a pushup at first, but worked his way up to between "advanced" and "elite" on the exrx charts. I'd say he's doing pretty damn good.
            "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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            • I am sure that according to those random strength standards I am still a “novice” or maybe not even so, and honestly I couldn't care less…
              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

              - Schopenhauer

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              • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                I was going to say that Rippetoe would also be considered weak by those standards, deadlifting 633 at 220. But it turns out that "elite" for 220 is only 585. I'm surprised that an extra 55 pounds of bodyweight is only supposed to buy you an extra 65 pounds on your deadlift.
                Keep in mind that height comes into the equation as well. Most of the heavier lifters are also taller than their lighter counterparts.

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                • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                  I am sure that according to those random strength standards I am still a “novice” or maybe not even so, and honestly I couldn't care less…
                  exrx.net standards are pretty highly respected. but strength standards are only important if you care about them. if you aren't training to get strong, then you probably wouldn't bother looking at them in the first place. if you train like a body builder and train for aesthetics, or if you do a lot of crossfit or hiit stuff, then of course you wouldn't fall high up on the strength standards. that's just the way it goes. I didn't think anyone would think otherwise

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                  • If I dropped my high volume training, 5 days a week, no morning cardio, and started on an abbreviated 3 days a week program of heavy squats, deads, and bench and a few assistant exercise, then I probably would pull 500 and squat a widowmaker for 300 pound within a few weeks. But since my body weight is 218 pound and 6’2 /187 cm tall, it is still weak by all muscle-head standards! And if I stayed on an abbreviated program like that for years and not got injured, I would probably end up much “stronger” in the big lifts, on the expense of being de-trained and deconditioned in the high rep range, and with the stocky physiognomy of an average Texan oil company worker in exchange from where I am now…
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

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                    • I'm still a novice or worse in a lot of lifts after 8 months. I don't even look like a bodybuilder for my efforts. But I still enjoy it and it makes me feel good. It chaps my hide how hard it is to bench or press to even make it to the "untrained" level. Actually, it makes no sense that I'd train for 8 months to still be "untrained". Untrained was me benching 25lbs before I started my training, and listening to all that cracking and popping in my shoulders.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        If I dropped my high volume training, 5 days a week, no morning cardio, and started on an abbreviated 3 days a week program of heavy squats, deads, and bench and a few assistant exercise, then I probably would pull 500 and squat a widowmaker for 300 pound within a few weeks. But since my body weight is 218 pound and 6’2 /187 cm tall, it is still weak by all muscle-head standards! And if I stayed on an abbreviated program like that for years and not got injured, I would probably end up much “stronger” in the big lifts, on the expense of being de-trained and deconditioned in the high rep range, and with the stocky physiognomy of an average Texan oil company worker in exchange from where I am now…
                        I think there is a happy place somewhere in the middle. I tend to do heavy lifts 2 days per week, and then 1-2 hiit/crossfit -styled workouts involvding ropes, tractor tires, sptints, etc 1-2 times as well. I also box 2x per week. then I mountain bike/kayak/hike/etc. gives me the best of all worlds. I can still be relatively strong, but have good conditioning and endurance as well.

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                        • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                          exrx.net standards are pretty highly respected.
                          "We did them in 2006. Me and Lon pulled them out of our asses, okay? He pulled some out of my ass, I pulled some out of his ass. They are meaningless bullshit. If you are even semi-conscious you will IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY." - Mark Rippetoe

                          Don't worry too much about them. The guy who helped create the tables doesn't even respect them .
                          In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

                          This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

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                          • I think strength is relative to what you want/what you need for you.

                            There is no such thing as strong, if you train just to be 'functional' in your day to day life then there will always be something you need help with, or simply cannot lift that someone else can. Get as strong as you can, provided that it doesn't require you to focus purely on that. Then start doing other stuff. Conditioning, cardio, hiking. Crap like that.

                            I'm trying to build muscle, but I'm doing in such a way that I'm purely building strength for the moment. My last workout I dead lifted 100kg. Awesome for me. Weak as piss for most people around here, but I've only been doing this for just over 2 months. I plan on getting a lot stronger and bigger. Then, I'm going to mix in other stuff.

                            Now I have no idea if what i said was relevant or off topic but ehh...

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                            • Originally posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
                              "We did them in 2006. Me and Lon pulled them out of our asses, okay? He pulled some out of my ass, I pulled some out of his ass. They are meaningless bullshit. If you are even semi-conscious you will IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY." - Mark Rippetoe

                              Don't worry too much about them. The guy who helped create the tables doesn't even respect them .
                              "The performance standards are adult standards (>18 years old) for a single maximal repetition (1RM) based on competitive weightlifter and powerlifting classification systems in use from the 1950's to present."

                              i'd say there is something to them. can you provide a better standard to go by then?

                              i'm really not sure why people have such a hard time with the concept of some sort of measurement standard? respect exrx or not, its still a pretty reasonable standard to base relative strength on. there needs to be some sort of standardization, or every one out there will be saying "i'm strong" "no i'm strong." etc... how else do you judge things?
                              Last edited by not on the rug; 07-02-2013, 05:37 AM.

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                              • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                                i'm really not sure why people have such a hard time with the concept of some sort of measurement standard?
                                Yes you are sure. It's because it makes it hard for everyone to feel like a special little snowflake.

                                Rippetoe's point was that people were mis-using the chart he and Lon Kilgore had published (it's up again now on startingstrength.com, but he re-named the categories because it was causing confusion).

                                The charts do you no good for planning purposes if the game plan is always to get stronger. But they let you compare a little guy to a big guy for relative strength, and they remind you that you're still weak, at least up to the point where you're a competitive national-level powerlifter, in which case the people who beat you at meets will serve as reminder enough.
                                The Champagne of Beards

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