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How fast can your body realistically get stronger?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by BigChris View Post
    I think you missing my point ... but... don't know how to explan it. thanks for the super patients.
    Your point is that you want to be patted on the back and told you're fine just the way you are. I'm not your enabler and I'm not your mom.

    I encourage men and women alike to become strong and capable and fit and healthy.

    I don't blame anybody for their starting point, but I can't get on board with telling you that you're strong enough, or that you're just a big elephant and are best served by staying that way, because I don't think that's the truth.
    The Champagne of Beards

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
      I encourage men and women alike to become strong and capable and fit and healthy.
      I will totally agree I am NITHER fit nor healthy and have zero endurance (and know I have a long way to go in all of then) but strong is what being debated .... forget you and me .... what is considered a strong squat number be it "iron on the bar" or "rocks in a pack" or "sand in bag held to chest" or "fat around the middle" .... weight above the hips is weight lifted and the legs need to be strong enough to move it so what is a good number indicating strong legs .. (and percent of body mass is irrelevant because then everyone would be lifting different amounts and calming to be strong ) guess that all I'm asking .... along with saying society seems to value smaller thinner more svelte "looking" over true raw strength. .. thus all the rhetoric of get "strong" seems count productive "to me"
      Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013, 01:53 PM.
      04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
      01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
      06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
      12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by BigChris View Post
        I will totally agree I am NITHER fit nor healthy and have zero endurance (and know I have a long way to go in all of then) but strong is what being debated .... forget you and me .... what is considered a strong squat number be it "iron on the bar" or "rocks in a pack" or "sand in bag held to chest" or "fat around the middle" .... weight above the hips is weight lifted and the legs need to be strong enough to move it so what is a good number indicating strong legs .. (and percent of body mass is irrelevant because then everyone would be lifting different amounts and calming to be strong ) guess that all I'm asking ....
        Whether we put a hard number on it and whether we include upper body mass in the calculation, you're not strong. A 250 pound guy who squats 500 is strong. Let's say he's actually moving 600 or 625 above the hip joint. You have maybe 250 or 300 + a 50 lb bar.

        But that's all ridiculous. Because if you can't lift anything but your body and 45 pounds, your strength isn't useful. Because you can't do anything with it, because you need all the strength just to lug your own body around. This should be intuitive.

        Originally posted by BigChris View Post
        along with saying society seems to value smaller thinner more svelte "looking" over true raw strength. .. thus all the rhetoric of get "strong" seems count productive "to me"
        Stronger is better than weak. Healthy is better than unhealthy. You're neither. Get to work. Less typing, more squatting.
        The Champagne of Beards

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
          You're right that it can take older trainees longer to recover. But as a novice lifter, you are still getting stronger from 1 workout to the next. Just that the cycle of supercompensation takes a bit longer.

          After reviewing your log on the Starting Strength forums, I'd guess that you have some linear progression left in you. In which case, you'd be training suboptimally if you switched to intermediate programming. But ask Mac Ward or Andy Baker if you think I might be wrong. I'd certainly defer to either of their opinions.

          I switched a bit too early to a TM-style setup and Mac suggested I revert to Advanced Novice (like SS, but with a light squatting day in the middle of the week instead of another heavy squat day). I've already blasted through the plateus I hit on the intermediate program, and I hope to keep going for a while yet.
          Well, I switched in order to recover from my back injury. But I have sensed that a straight intermediate program isn't enough, so I've done the final set as a set of 3. So in a way it's Starting Strength as a two-day program minus the 2nd day of squatting and with the zig-zagging of weights that an intermediate program has.

          Originally posted by BigChris View Post
          what is considered a strong squat number be it "iron on the bar" or "rocks in a pack" or "sand in bag held to chest" or "fat around the middle" .... weight above the hips is weight lifted and the legs need to be strong enough to move it so what is a good number indicating strong legs .. (and percent of body mass is irrelevant because then everyone would be lifting different amounts and calming to be strong ) guess that all I'm asking
          Maybe it would help if you both subtracted your body weight from the weight you can lift on the bar. That would leave the extra, the additional weight that you don't already walk around with on a day-to-day basis.

          So, Rich is 295 - 160 = 135
          You are 45 - 450 = -405

          So basically Rich can lift 135lbs more than his own bodyweight. You can't lift anything above your bodyweight. You need to be able to lift 405 pounds more to equal lifting your own body. Rich needs only to lift 25 more pounds to achieve that.

          A lot of your bodyweight isn't being lifted when you squat. It's just sitting there on the ground or moving only a few inches vertically. Rich is moving 135lbs of mass that isn't inside his body a couple of feet. You are moving only 45 pounds.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

          Comment


          • #50
            that makes even less sense ... don't see where it matters if you 4ft or 6ft tall 135lbs lifted is a 135lbs lifted ... if you are 135lbs and can lift that much good ok and if your 250 and can lift that good all the same, 1=1, no differences ... molecular composition of the material lift is irrelevant. .. if you have a weight vest and a pair of kettle bells yes some of the weight is held high and some lower but you legs are still lifting 135 regardless
            Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013, 03:20 PM.
            04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
            01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
            06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
            12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

            Comment


            • #51
              But you are not lifting all that weight. Part of your body isn't moving as you squat down and up. Part of your body only moves a few inches. So not all of your body counts. You can't count the part that isn't moving because that would be like counting half or quarter squats. Everybody knows those don't count.

              The only valid measure of your strength is to compare it against another guy who weighs as much as you. Among two 450 pounders, who can add more to his back and squat? Who can do more air squats? Whoever can do more wins. You cannot measure yourself against Rich because you aren't moving all your body when you squat. The only part that is moved equally between you is the barbell.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                , your strength isn't useful. Because you can't do anything with it, because you need all the strength just to lug your own body around. This should be intuitive.
                so by this you mean strength is really the amount or measurement of unused or of excess capacity rather the total amount of work being done .. seems to me living/working at 90% capacity 90% of the time is doing far more "work" then lifting/working at 90% capacity 9% of the time???



                perhaps that is where the issue is I see it as sum total work actually done ... not reaming available potential "to do"
                04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                  The only valid measure of your strength is to compare it against another guy who weighs as much as you. Among two 450 pounders, who can add more to his back and squat? Who can do more air squats? Whoever can do more wins. You cannot measure yourself against Rich because you aren't moving all your body when you squat. The only part that is moved equally between you is the barbell.
                  again perhaps this is part of what I'm missing I always see post with yea me I lift xxx amount and never the oh but wait caviout I'm 250 and 4ft tall or 160 and 6 ft or anything just me a strong bad ass cuz me lift xxx (to which I go me also - with some things and not with others ) -- ex. I can pickup do dumbbell shrugs with 90lbs in each hand and yet lots of people I see in the gym have trouble racking one of them with two hands or when I could bench 225 for many sets/reps I just figure I'm still fat so therefore and still week -just as has been pointed out here- ... but in the flowing years I saw hundreds of post on the web of people bragging about doing less as 1rm and being pleased and saying how strong they are so ... is 225 strong or week ... don't have a clue but the verdict always seems to be more a factor of my waist line the then barbell.
                  Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013, 04:04 PM.
                  04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                  01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                  06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                  12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    This is probably one of the most ridiculous threads in mda history. A morbidly obese weak guy arguing about how strong he is. Seriously? Look at exrx strength standards. A 320lb + man isnt even considered "untrained" until he is squatting 150lbs. You'd be a novice once you squatted 275. So until you post videos of yourself banging out 100 reps of air squats where your heels hit your ass or maybe a 1rm of your bodyweight, whatever strength you think you have is utterly meaningless. I'm guessing you're out of breath when you walk up a flight of stairs. You aren't strong by any definition.

                    If a 150lb man benches 225 he is strong. If a 500lb man does it, its not even the equivalent of doing a pushup
                    Last edited by not on the rug; 06-26-2013, 04:52 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Guess in part I'm kind of looing for definitive lines in the sand or better concrete and yes so I can say "all I am is not a total lose"
                      ... yea quads are strong; now loose more weight and work on chest
                      ... yea chests is strong; now loose more weight and work on shoulders
                      .. yea shoulders are strong; now loose more fat and work on something else.
                      then finally in time ... yea I'm strong and health

                      but with out fixed goal post it's a bit inconceivable and daunting and I have never seemed to be making and measurable progress (yes my lifting amounts or reps would steadily go up but where is the universal end mark that = strong, that = health, that = whatever)

                      and thus I historically have tend to do great for a while but I never "seeming to be getting anywhere" nor "was I ever perceived" by myself or others as strong to any degree because I was always fat as well ... which I think was bad/unhealthy when in reality I really was making great progress, was strong, was getting healthier and even out lifting many others. ... so when I would crash I would just say f'it because obviously none of my lift amounts mattered, helped or counted for anything, no mater how strong I actuality got it was never view as being anything worthwhile .... thus making it even harder to get motivated next time.

                      it's sad but I was and have been treated and viewed as bad/unhealthy/lazy/week at 235 when much stronger and lifting all the time as I am now at 435. -- and there is a LOT of lifting, walking, doing stuff right for a long while that is need to be done to get back there but what's the point if I'm just / still going to be seen as week and fat and unfit?
                      04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                      01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                      06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                      12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                        If a 150lb man benches 225 he is strong. If a 500lb man does it, its not even the equivalent of doing a pushup
                        see that what make ZERO sense .. is very simple .... 225 bench is 225 no mater who does it ...the weight doesn't magicly get lighter for one person .. either you can lift it and are thus strong at any bodyweight ..or you cant lift it and are not strong. put a 100 horse power engine in a tank or a go-cart and you will get very very different performance levels but the engine is still 100 horse power .. 1 pound lifted will always weigh 1 pound no matter who picks it up

                        ... fuck you all good night ,..if a mod wants to delete all my most ridiculous posts in mda history go for it.
                        Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013, 05:11 PM.
                        04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                        01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                        06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                        12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by BigChris View Post
                          it's sad but I was and have been treated and viewed as bad/unhealthy/lazy/week at 235 when much stronger and lifting all the time as I am now at 435. -- and there is a LOT of lifting, walking, doing stuff right for a long while that is need to be done to get back there but what's the point if I'm just / still going to be seen as week and fat and unfit?
                          99.9% of your problem is summed up RIGHT THERE! Why do you give a fuck how your seen? If your not lifting, dieting, getting healthy ect... for yourself then your values are all jacked up. Define things for yourself. Define success for yourself. Then achieve it and to hell with what anyone else opinion is. If you can't do that there is no chance of you ever being happy with your own effort and successes.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            "Why do you give a fuck how your seen? ... If your not lifting, dieting, getting healthy ect ...for yourself then your values are all jacked up"

                            ... um employers sure seem care now a days, as does society in general, so do friends/family, potential mates ... I'm me just the same at 235 or 435 makes no difference -- do the same things, like the same things, go the same places, blood pressure was heigher at 235 then, same music now. etc etc -- just much more sick of people judging me by my appearance then anything else, so figure I would try and conform once again
                            Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013, 05:26 PM.
                            04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                            01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                            06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                            12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Meh, you misunderstand. I'm saying that you don't need anybody giving you a pat on the ass for lifting some weight and getting in shape. Be happy with your improvements (however you define them) big or small. I see you got goals in your sig. So reach em then! People here will help ya, but it doesn't matter if your getting the respect you think you deserve for the effort. You have to do it for yourself first and foremost.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                yea I seem to be doing a lot of misunderstanding here
                                04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                                01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                                06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                                12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                                Comment

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