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Strength training with low back pain while trying to gain weight

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
    Bodyweight training is still resistance training just as weights are. In fact if you put a lot of effort into some BW exercises, you can work yourself harder than if you were in the gym on the iron.
    Which bodyweight exercise is equivalent to a 2x bodyweight barbell squat or a 2.5x barbell deadlift?
    The Champagne of Beards

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    • #32
      Well, carrying either 2 or 2 and a half people on your shoulders of course. Although, things do get a bit messy with all the blood loss from the half body, but there are some modest sacrifices we have to accept in the pursuit of excellence.

      If you read my post again, you will note it says, "in fact if you put a lot of effort into some BW exercises" - note the absence of the word ALL. Also if you read my other posts you will see that I have spoken about poor training habits of iron slingers who substitute 50kg lat pull downs instead of doing wide grip pull ups (even assisted if they need to) - whereas to get the best development the pull ups are better. There are of course many other examples I could mention as I would hope you are aware.

      If you are in to all out strength training and hoping that you can add enough mass to your thighs to make them touch from midway and all up to the top, then yes, heavy squatting is the way to go. This however, is not the primary objective of most people. If you want to increase load whilst BW training, you manipulate repetitions, partial range, body position, static holds, isokinetic movement, plyometric movement etc., to all influence the duration and difficulty of the exercise. If you want to feel the pump - then BW will achieve this equally as slinging iron will, however, BW requires more thought about body position (form), intensity of workout and desired affect. Also, when finishing a BW exercise you don't have to try to throw anything through the floor once you are finished, because you cant handle the weight that was too heavy for you in the first place.

      And in case you are wondering, yes, I train with free weights and have done so for the last 21 years (BP-125kg, Sq-140, DL-160kg), I use BW when its sensible to do so (see earlier comment) and I like the bike for cardio. So I know what I'm talking about.
      Fortune Favours the Brave
      _____________________

      I can only talk from my acquired knowledge and experiences. You may have a different view or experience and I will respect that. Please respect mine.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
        If you are in to all out strength training and hoping that you can add enough mass to your thighs to make them touch from midway and all up to the top, then yes, heavy squatting is the way to go. This however, is not the primary objective of most people.
        Please show me a middle aged, detrained lady who started a novice strength training program and added that kind of lean mass to her thighs without the use of exogenous androgens. Really. I'm a dude, and I've been squatting maximal loads for years, and most ladies around here would probably kill to have my svelte 22" thighs.

        Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
        If you want to increase load whilst BW training, you manipulate repetitions, partial range, body position, static holds, isokinetic movement, plyometric movement etc., to all influence the duration and difficulty of the exercise. If you want to feel the pump - then BW will achieve this equally as slinging iron will, however, BW requires more thought about body position (form), intensity of workout and desired affect. Also, when finishing a BW exercise you don't have to try to throw anything through the floor once you are finished, because you cant handle the weight that was too heavy for you in the first place.
        I don't understand what point you're arguing here. How do you add 5 lbs of resistance to the bodyweight exercise you did on your last workout? Gain 5 lbs, I guess. Keep doing that every week, and you'll be able to progressively overload your bodyweight movement in a linear fashion like you can with the barbell. Except now you weigh 400 lbs...

        Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
        And in case you are wondering, yes, I train with free weights and have done so for the last 21 years (BP-125kg, Sq-140, DL-160kg), I use BW when its sensible to do so (see earlier comment) and I like the bike for cardio. So I know what I'm talking about.
        It took you 21 years of lifting to achieve those numbers and I should consider you a guru on strength? Very amusing.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #34
          Bodyweight training is not as good, efficient, and sustainable as barbells are for strength training.

          You can try to convince others all you want that a pistol squat at an odd angle on your tippy-toes is an effective leg exercise, but me and Rich will just add 5lb to the bar and squat more weight, force our body to adapt and produce more force, and consequently get stronger, time, after time, after time...

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          • #35
            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            It took you 21 years of lifting to achieve those numbers and I should consider you a guru on strength? Very amusing.
            I didn't say I was - but I'm certainly no novice is the point. I take it that you are an iron junkie who wants to get massive, well, good look to you, but after 21 years of training I have got to the point where I am content with my training and my numbers do the job very nicely thank you. I don't need, nor want to gain any more mass as I don't aspire to look like someone swallows 'roids and pretends to be carrying a roll of carpet under each arm - particularly when other sweaty men are watching. I've always found that occurrence very strange.

            However, as a result of this exchange, I summarise that you really have a poor attitude and I'm getting somewhat bored of unfortunately reading puerile counter arguments. Say what you will to counter this statement, but I will leave it here.

            Toodle pip.
            Fortune Favours the Brave
            _____________________

            I can only talk from my acquired knowledge and experiences. You may have a different view or experience and I will respect that. Please respect mine.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
              I didn't say I was - but I'm certainly no novice is the point. I take it that you are an iron junkie who wants to get massive, well, good look to you, but after 21 years of training I have got to the point where I am content with my training and my numbers do the job very nicely thank you. I don't need, nor want to gain any more mass as I don't aspire to look like someone swallows 'roids and pretends to be carrying a roll of carpet under each arm - particularly when other sweaty men are watching. I've always found that occurrence very strange.
              I'm glad you're content with the results of your training. I'm not saying I'm much stronger than you, I'm saying you are bragging as if those numbers are proof of the effectiveness of your 21 years of training and your sage knowledge of these matters, and I do disagree with that.

              I actually have not dissimilar numbers (on the lifts. I claim far fewer years under the iron) and see them as something to strive to improve upon. And I lift at home, alone, in my condo's loft, with nary a sweaty man in sight, thank you very much.

              And sadly, I'm in pretty much zero danger of ever being accused of looking like a juice-head.

              Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
              However, as a result of this exchange, I summarise that you really have a poor attitude and I'm getting somewhat bored of unfortunately reading puerile counter arguments. Say what you will to counter this statement, but I will leave it here.

              Toodle pip.
              Very bloody well then. Rubbish and lorries and kidney pie to you sir. Good day.
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #37
                Originally posted by 10 Bears View Post
                Bodyweight training is still resistance training just as weights are. In fact if you put a lot of effort into some BW exercises, you can work yourself harder than if you were in the gym on the iron.

                For example, I often see chaps strapped in to the Lat pull-down grunting and groaning at pulling 50kg, and yet they never see development. Why? Well, if they bothered to do some wide grip pull ups under their bodyweight at for example 80kg, they would get better growth and faster.

                Often people forget the effort required to complete BW exercises and write them off as they dont include a weight or a machine - but if done right it can be an intense workout.

                One arm pull-ups anyone?
                Hey, i've been trying deadlifts but I find my back still hurts. Does anyone have a good vid/tips on proper form, and also other strength training I can do with just free weights, nothing else? Keep in mind I can't do too much heavy lifting due to tendinitis in my arms, so even push ups are hard on my arms.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                  Hey, i've been trying deadlifts but I find my back still hurts. Does anyone have a good vid/tips on proper form, and also other strength training I can do with just free weights, nothing else? Keep in mind I can't do too much heavy lifting due to tendinitis in my arms, so even push ups are hard on my arms.
                  Here's a guide to coaching the deadlift. If you're coaching yourself, it might help.
                  AC Discusses the Deadlift | 70's Big

                  What can you do with your arms? Are bench and overhead pressing out of the question?
                  The Champagne of Beards

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                  • #39
                    Yeah, what RM posted is great. For me the "squeeze" cue makes all the difference for keeping the back safe. If I do it right I feel nada in the low back.

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                    • #40
                      Does the back pain show up from prolonged excercise. Can you do at least one excercise without it hurting?


                      Sent from my iPhone
                      A little primal gem - My Success Story
                      Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                        Here's a guide to coaching the deadlift. If you're coaching yourself, it might help.
                        AC Discusses the Deadlift | 70's Big

                        What can you do with your arms? Are bench and overhead pressing out of the question?
                        I unfortunately dont have the equipment to do bench or overheads, and I think even if I did it would be bad for my arms.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                          Does the back pain show up from prolonged excercise. Can you do at least one excercise without it hurting?


                          Sent from my iPhone
                          Yes, it does occur whenever I exercise. It eases after a couple days, but its frustrating when it hurts again when I exert it.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                            Yes, it does occur whenever I exercise. It eases after a couple days, but its frustrating when it hurts again when I exert it.
                            Yeah I was just trying to gauge whether it was more of chronic overuse style injury. Or an acute physical damage style injury.

                            If it was a chronic type injury I was going to suggest getting under the bar for as heavy as you could handle for only 1-2 lifts, once or twice a week.It takes alot of rest, but would still give you significant muscle adaptation, this removes the repetitive time stress overload.

                            If it was an acute injury (like a torn back muscle) I was going to suggest a "grease the groove" type protocol. Where you do many small light lifts. Do them a few times a day every day of the week. This requires very little rest and recovery with only a very small amount of adaptation each time. But because the amount times per week you do them it builds into a significant amount of muscle adaptation. This removes acute stress overload. (Your back's damage threshold is very reduced in this scenario).




                            Sent from my iPhone
                            A little primal gem - My Success Story
                            Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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                            • #44
                              [QUOTE=dilberryhoundog;1249600]Yeah I was just trying to gauge whether it was more of chronic overuse style injury. Or an acute physical damage style injury.

                              If it was a chronic type injury I was going to suggest getting under the bar for as heavy as you could handle for only 1-2 lifts, once or twice a week.It takes alot of rest, but would still give you significant muscle adaptation, this removes the repetitive time stress overload.

                              If it was an acute injury (like a torn back muscle) I was going to suggest a "grease the groove" type protocol. Where you do many small light lifts. Do them a few times a day every day of the week. This requires very little rest and recovery with only a very small amount of adaptation each time. But because the amount times per week you do them it builds into a significant amount of muscle adaptation. This removes acute stress overload. (Your back's damage threshold is very reduced in this scenario).


                              Hmm thats interesting. I'm not sure whether it's acute or chronic though. It might be acute; if so would you recommend deadlifts or some other exercise with light weights, about 3-5 lbs?

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                              • #45
                                yup i stretch every day

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