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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Don't buy the booze or crack. Yet oddly, we still have many alcoholics and crack heads.

    By all means, I understand that you should have the responsibility to not eat the cupcake. And I could muster that strength for about 6-8 weeks at a time. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK as a method of controlling obesity any better than it works at stopping alcoholism or crack addiction.

    Honestly, what we should tell people is "hey, when you want sugar at 3pm, go grab a couple pieces of bacon or throw some mayo on an egg". That actually does work. Really well to break that cycle. But to most people, even well educated (or we will call them well read) that is akin to signing up for a heart attack.


    I wrote all that shit tongue in cheak- but most of the info to learn is faulty. You read things like "eggs are GREAT- up to 3 a week". Or "a portion of lean protein is a deck of cards". I look at what I eat:
    Breakfast- 3 eggs scrambled with bacon and veggies
    Lunch- 2 boiled eggs, 4 ounces of turkey, fruit
    Dinner- 8-10 ounces of meat that is not fish or chicken breast, veggies cooked with fat, depending on activity some rice or a potato

    If I read 20 decently regarded sources of information, 18 of them would be all "that's why you will get fat and die of a heart attack" and 2 would be "go for it!". For me, that's the way of eating that makes a cupcake at 3pm not even cross my mind.

    Now how I used to eat:
    Breakfast- Multigrain tortilla, eggwhites, low fat cheese, salsa, fruit
    Lunch- salad, no dressing, something like beans or tofu, more low fat cheese
    Dinner- pasta (often multigrain), sauce, small amount of cheese, salad, non-fat dressing
    If you go to 20 information sources, 18 will say "excellent choices ma'am." Except for eating this way set me up to want sugar at 3pm (which a good chunk of the time I could push through).

    So yeah, people should not eat the cupcake and they also shouldn't eat the diet that MOST trusted resources say they should eat because it sets you up to want the cupcake like nothing else. Then to make things worse, MOST resources let you know that the diet that does work is full of food that will stop your heart.

    So in essence, for me eating animal protein and fat in such quantities that it is considered harmful to my health by most sources of health information is how I can "skip" the cupcake. However, most people don't see bacon and eggs as a "healthy" substitute for a cupcake.
    clearly there is something flawed in your former way of thinking and the way of thinking that seems to cause serious problems in this country. if you look at your old diet. standard cw nonsense. and you eat those things, and you get a sugar craving at 3pm, why did it have to be a cupcake? couldn't it have been an apple? how about some berries? why was it hostess to the rescue? the fact that it had to be a nutritionally devoid, chemically laden thing like a cupcake is your flawed logic.

    the other thing I don't understand is why people can't learn to treat certain things as a special treat. I eat ice cream. love ice cream. but I only eat it once a week. doesn't matter that I crave it at 3pm on Tuesday. I get my ice cream on satuday. period. don't be a softhead about things and treat yourself if you need it. but make it a TREAT. to use MDA 101. if grok came across a beehive and knew there was honey in it, he would have knocked it down and brought it home to his family. they would have eaten as much honey as they possibly could have . then they might not have had honey for another month. or 3 months. or even until next year because honey is hard to come by in January.

    Comment


    • if you watch oprah and dr. oz, and read self magazine and give a shit about gweneth paltrow, and base your nutrition and exercise plan on that crap you DESERVE every ounce of misery you get. the day oprah starts training nfl athletes, i'll follow her workout advice. the day gweneth paltrow is the head dietary consultant for the sequel to the 300 movie, i'll listen to her nutrition advice. I wouldn't ask my dentist how install a water softener system, and I wouldn't ask my water guy how to do a root canal. it's time for people to THINK
      So where, pray tell, is the better advice for people? Because 99% of people's physicians and probably 90% of their personal trainers are going to give them the same advice Oprah, Gwen (OK, not Gwen LOL) and Shape magazine do.

      I mean, I just bought a car, and my resources were friends that are into cars, Edmunds.com and Consumer reports. I'd say 90% agreed to go with a Japanese car. 5% said go American and 5% said to get a Mercedes. I went with the 90%.

      When you mentioned that my "universe was small" in terms of my vision of fat people, I think perhaps your universe is small in terms of dietary advice. Why yes, I do see a lot of awesome reasons to eat Paleo because those are the resources I look at. I imagine if while car shopping, I just looked at the websites of Mercedes enthusiasts that I would own a Mercedes today.

      Now the crux of it is, why do people keeping doing the same dumb thing over and over again? BECAUSE THEY HEAR TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THEY LACK DISCIPLINE. So they keep taking the 90%'s advice because they assume they should be able to not eat the god damn cupcake. Maybe if for once the message was "You know, maybe it's not your lack of discipline, maybe it's the diet not working for you and you should try something else", they'd take the 10% advice and try primal or paleo.

      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

      Comment


      • Since gluttony and sloth are obviously my two favorite sins (I am 400+ lbs after all) just thought I would let you all know I spent the weekend sitting on the beach and even ate a 7lb lobster and loved ever fat, lazy, stupid, glorious weight loseing moment of it.
        Last edited by BigChris; 06-17-2013, 07:40 AM.
        04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
        01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
        06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
        12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

        Comment


        • clearly there is something flawed in your former way of thinking and the way of thinking that seems to cause serious problems in this country. if you look at your old diet. standard cw nonsense. and you eat those things, and you get a sugar craving at 3pm, why did it have to be a cupcake? couldn't it have been an apple? how about some berries? why was it hostess to the rescue? the fact that it had to be a nutritionally devoid, chemically laden thing like a cupcake is your flawed logic.
          Honestly, in my case, I think my body wanted fat, not sugar. Because trust me, I tried the whole fruit at 3pm and then I just wanted something more and I guess grabbing bacon or butter doesn't cross your mind and sweets have some fat in them.

          When I started eating primal, and this is gross (or maybe not) I stood in my kitchen and ate the skin off and then devoured a whole roast chicken. I used to just eat a shit ton of animal fat- I'd eat the fattiest steaks, chicken skin. During this time, you could have paraded a cupcake in front of me and I'd have thrown it at your head. I was obviously starved for fat.

          Unfortunately, it took me "giving up" to stumble upon paleo and primal. Because it was so smooshed in my head that low fat was the solution and I just didn't have the willpower, I never even considered that maybe my body needed more fat and protein.

          http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
          Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
            So where, pray tell, is the better advice for people? Because 99% of people's physicians and probably 90% of their personal trainers are going to give them the same advice Oprah, Gwen (OK, not Gwen LOL) and Shape magazine do.

            I mean, I just bought a car, and my resources were friends that are into cars, Edmunds.com and Consumer reports. I'd say 90% agreed to go with a Japanese car. 5% said go American and 5% said to get a Mercedes. I went with the 90%.

            When you mentioned that my "universe was small" in terms of my vision of fat people, I think perhaps your universe is small in terms of dietary advice. Why yes, I do see a lot of awesome reasons to eat Paleo because those are the resources I look at. I imagine if while car shopping, I just looked at the websites of Mercedes enthusiasts that I would own a Mercedes today.

            Now the crux of it is, why do people keeping doing the same dumb thing over and over again? BECAUSE THEY HEAR TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THEY LACK DISCIPLINE. So they keep taking the 90%'s advice because they assume they should be able to not eat the god damn cupcake. Maybe if for once the message was "You know, maybe it's not your lack of discipline, maybe it's the diet not working for you and you should try something else", they'd take the 10% advice and try primal or paleo.
            ok. so you're a fat guy/girl sitting at home. you say to yourself "self, i want to get in shape, look great, and be healthy." lets turn on the tv. there's oprah, a total fatass, yo-yo dieter, and all around dimwit. why in the world would you take her advice on anything? what does she know about diet and exercise? or, do you turn on the tv, see a pro athlete and say "self, this guy/girl is at the top of their game, and they look amazing. I wonder what they do to workout and what they eat?" do you see where i'm going with this?

            your approach to buying a car, is a decent example. not the best, but I'll run with it. we're you just buying a car? do you commute, or do you drive for fun? do you like offroading? do you tow a 10,000lb boat? going with the 90% isn't always the best because the 90% doesn't know how the pros do it. if you are commuting 100 miles a day and don't care about style, go for the corolla or the civic (Japanese). if you are all about the driving experience, i'd recommend a bmw or infiniti (german or Japanese). if you're doing light to medium towing, you could go tundra or titan (Japanese) or a good old dodge (American). the cummins diesel has the torque you need. but, if you're towing a huge boat or trailer, you might want to go with a chevy (American) because the Allison transmission is top of the line. would the 90% know that info? probably not.
            so when you look at a professional woman athlete on tv, and you think she looks great, you have to think to yourself that oprah has no ficking idea how this woman eats or trains. why would you listen to oprah to look like that athlete?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
              Honestly, in my case, I think my body wanted fat, not sugar. Because trust me, I tried the whole fruit at 3pm and then I just wanted something more and I guess grabbing bacon or butter doesn't cross your mind and sweets have some fat in them.

              When I started eating primal, and this is gross (or maybe not) I stood in my kitchen and ate the skin off and then devoured a whole roast chicken. I used to just eat a shit ton of animal fat- I'd eat the fattiest steaks, chicken skin. During this time, you could have paraded a cupcake in front of me and I'd have thrown it at your head. I was obviously starved for fat.

              Unfortunately, it took me "giving up" to stumble upon paleo and primal. Because it was so smooshed in my head that low fat was the solution and I just didn't have the willpower, I never even considered that maybe my body needed more fat and protein.
              this is amazing to me. in a good way. i'm happy to know that you are here and I wish millions of other people could have the epiphany you had.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BigChris View Post
                Since gluttony and sloth are obviously my two favorite sins (I am 400+ lbs after all) just thought I would let you all know I spent the weekend sitting on the beach and even ate a 7lb lobster and loved ever fat, lazy, stupid, glorious weight loseing moment of it.
                Hey, I had lobster yesterday also - and plenty of champagne, whiskey and beer! I even ate pork and bacon this weekend and I don't regret anything...
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

                Comment


                • Ok seriously I understand and to a large degree do agree with what ‘not on the rug’ is saying.

                  Where I have the issue “effort required” as I personally needed to work like 3-5 times as hard as many others to loose the weight “on a SAD grain-loaded diet” (like the only time I could eat like that and steadily loose was when I was a teen working on the farm throwing 75lb bales of hay around for 14+hrs a day during the summer – weight always went up again in the winter, same diet year round) yep it sucked and so I just said f-it. got an education and job sitting on my ass programming computers making 10 times what I would have as a health fit active farm slave … (and the extra dollars have allowed me to see vastly more, do far more and travel much more then being poor but fit would ever have)

                  yes I could still have chosen to work out 8+hrs a day at the gym on top of my 50+ a week at the office but why when it was just simpler and easer to buy a bigger truck to hall my fat lazy ass around.

                  Now having said that there have been numerous times which seems to cycle ever 3-5 years where for a while; excluding the times I lived off of speed or smoking heroin and the 2 years as a hi-soy vegetarian … I “got my shit together” and my “head on straight”, “put in the effort” and ate a very calorie controlled hi-protein low carb diet and put in 90min a day in the weight room and lost a bunch of weight real quick but never found a way (or perhaps I’m just to stupid) to make it work long term. And yes as soon as I stopped being self masochistic and returned to eating normal starch grain laden food and computer gaming to de stress (killing shit on-line always worked far far better then the gym ever did) the weight went right back on just as quick.

                  oh and counter to your presumption I really have never ever eaten typical MC’whatever fast food or bag after bag of chips or sweet packaged junk food, – but a whole large loaf of fresh hot multi grain bread – hell yes -- and plates full of rice/pasta/root-tubers ect where always the base of most meals.
                  04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
                  01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
                  06/23/2015 Current weight : 288 lbs
                  12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                    I still think you guys are making it too complex. Entertain for a moment this simple idea...

                    People eat what's there.

                    The food supply in the USA is what it is, someone needs to eat it. It's true *an individual* could fly above the masses, and not eat it, we on MDA exist. But the masses have no other possible outcome than obesity.

                    To give an example from the stock market; I can outperform the market, but the masses can't outperform the market, because the masses *are* the market.

                    Note I'm not talking about what I'd like to be true, but rather observing what happens. Each time sugar, white flour and processed foods are introduced to a society, and reach levels that begin displacing real foods, the food supply by definition has changed, and people must eat the food supply, therefore they must get fat.

                    They *must* eat more calories, and get fatter, to get the same nutrition (because empty calories have displaced real foods). So "eat less" will only result in nutritional deficiencies.

                    The only thing we could say is "yes, but by demanding real food the food supply could be changed."

                    Meh, perhaps, but it would require significant government intervention, funding, redistribution of labor, changing of societal values.

                    I have to agree with all this. Notontherug is looking at the problem from a very simplistic view, to say that it all comes down to personal choice and self discipline is very naive.

                    We live in society that devotes enormous resources to producing food (if you can even call it food) and convincing people to consume it knowing full well that it will make them sick (thereby fueling another sector of the economy, health care, pharmaceuticals) and eventually kill them.

                    The laws of supply and demand do not apply when the market and advertising are controlled by corporations that are subsidized by the government. The vast majority of farm land is used to produce "food" we do not need. When you get Madison Ave., Wall Street and Washington aligned to funnel this useless and actually dangerous product through the American population it is no small wonder that population is sick and obese.

                    To get an idea of the magnitude of resources involved watch King Corn: Watch King Corn online | Free | Hulu

                    Personally, I believe the producing of an obese population (and it's varied auxiliary industries) is what fuels the GDP.
                    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                      I have to agree with all this. Notontherug is looking at the problem from a very simplistic view, to say that it all comes down to personal choice and self discipline is very naive.

                      We live in society that devotes enormous resources to producing food (if you can even call it food) and convincing people to consume it knowing full well that it will make them sick (thereby fueling another sector of the economy, health care, pharmaceuticals) and eventually kill them.

                      The laws of supply and demand do not apply when the market and advertising are controlled by corporations that are subsidized by the government. The vast majority of farm land is used to produce "food" we do not need. When you get Madison Ave., Wall Street and Washington aligned to funnel this useless and actually dangerous product through the American population it is no small wonder that population is sick and obese.

                      To get an idea of the magnitude of resources involved watch King Corn: Watch King Corn online | Free | Hulu

                      Personally, I believe the producing of an obese population (and it's varied auxiliary industries) is what fuels the GDP.
                      How frequently are people force fed by the corporations and/or government? Is healthy food not available? Should the government control how much you can eat?

                      There will always be misinformation from salesmen. Do you trust a company when they say their products are the best? Do you buy a car because the manufacturer says it is top notch? At what point do you realize that commercials, labels, and shiny packages are not forcing you to do anything?

                      Food in the US is generally terrible. That said, the people in the US keep buying it while alternatives are available. If a company can make millions selling GMO corn, trans fat laden, smothered in preservatives, chemical goo sugary garbage, it will continue doing so, and it will advertise the hell out of it. Unless and until the people start choosing other products, the company will keep selling garbage because it makes them a lot of money.

                      For crying out loud, Americans spend billions a year on junk food. Junk food. How much clearer can it be that what you are eating is shit when it's in a food category called "junk".
                      Last edited by quikky; 06-17-2013, 10:04 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                        I have to agree with all this. Notontherug is looking at the problem from a very simplistic view, to say that it all comes down to personal choice and self discipline is very naive.

                        We live in society that devotes enormous resources to producing food (if you can even call it food) and convincing people to consume it knowing full well that it will make them sick (thereby fueling another sector of the economy, health care, pharmaceuticals) and eventually kill them.

                        The laws of supply and demand do not apply when the market and advertising are controlled by corporations that are subsidized by the government. The vast majority of farm land is used to produce "food" we do not need. When you get Madison Ave., Wall Street and Washington aligned to funnel this useless and actually dangerous product through the American population it is no small wonder that population is sick and obese.

                        To get an idea of the magnitude of resources involved watch King Corn: Watch King Corn online | Free | Hulu

                        Personally, I believe the producing of an obese population (and it's varied auxiliary industries) is what fuels the GDP.
                        but wait. if its more than discipline and personal choice, then what made you eat paleo? i'm sure it wasn't oprah

                        i'd love to know what percentage of people who disagree with me are overweight/formerly overweight, middle aged women. i'm guessing its most of you. so sad.. all of you are "victims" of oprah and shape magazine, and dr. oz. then suddenly, you did some research on your own and found MDA or another paleo site, and your lives magically changed. imagine if you put in the leg-work of giving a crap about yourself and your health from the time you were a child. i'm sure you'd have a different view of the world too

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                          But taken as a whole, a society, they have no other choice.

                          We know Americans are eating more, 2,700 calories. We know 60% of these calories are sugar, grains and vegetable oil. That means they are getting 1,080 real calories from meat, milk, vegi, fruit and nuts. The sugar is worthless. Lets be generous and say the bread and vegi oil are worth 40% "real calories", so +430. Now they are getting 1,500 calories from real food.

                          Thus even though they over eat, they are under nourished and feel like shit.

                          Lets say they go on a diet and reduce their standard US food supply ration by 25%. They are now getting 2,000 calories, and in *theory* won't get fat, but are only eating 1,100 of real foods!

                          If they just "cut back" they will feel severely undernourished.
                          Thank you for being the voice of reason.

                          And Magnolia, your epic post a few pages back is so true. Sure everybody can blame your protagonist for listening to Oprah and Dr. Oz but how is what they are recommending any different from what people here recommend? They both say eat less, move more. Eat less fat because it has more calories. People say this over and over on this forum all the time.

                          When I was 165lbs my typical day was half a whole-wheat bagel with almond butter and half a banana. Lunch was a salad without dressing. I'd get either the one with a scoop of tuna salad or the greek salad with the homeopathic dose of feta cheese. I'd run 3-5 miles before lunch. I'd be so hungry I'd fight and fight the urge to get something else to eat by mid-afternoon. I'd usually fail and end up with a muffin or some kind of oaty vegan energy bar thing. Dinner would be something like piles of pasta, rice or rice noodles with something on top.

                          When I lost the weight, for breakfast I was eating bacon or sausage and eggs, or liver and onions. A much larger quantity of food by volume and calories than my half bagel. I'd eat the salad again for lunch but I'd put my own salmon plus real olive oil on the salad. I quit the running and just took an easy walk. I'd get some hard boiled eggs for a mid-afternoon snack. I'd have butter on top of cheese for an appetizer before dinner. I'd eat meat, veggies and a little potato for dinner. I'd have 3 glasses of wine and some dark chocolate for dessert. It was plenty of calories, certainly not diet-like at all. I was hardly ever hungry. I was always chastising myself for overeating on a daily basis. Yet I lost almost 30lbs.

                          I should go back to that because eating lean protein and potatoes to fuel my physical activities hasn't resulted in any appreciable or lasting loss of belly rolls or upper-arm wap-wap. And just like any typical dieter, attempts to reduce portion sizes often leaves me in this hungry state where I lose control and eat a banana or too big of a potato. That didn't happen when I ate higher fat. I could go a long time being hungry and not really care that I was hungry. A different quality of hunger that was tolerable.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                          Comment


                          • welp, i'm not middle aged. i'm not a reformed oprah or dr oz follower. jerry springer was my thing, and i was most likely too young to watch it

                            as a kid, i ate what mom cooked and what mom cooked was what she thought was healthy based on the dietary guidelines of the 80s

                            but just imagine if i had known, as a kid, that food was more than food!

                            what did i know as a kid? onions taste bad, but green beans and macaroni taste good

                            i used to think about that sht all the time, and regret that i didn't know back then that some foods were causing me to be this overweight blob, and i didn't have to listen to my doctor when he said, with regret, that maybe i should just accept myself as i was because he had run out of ideas to help. i got over it.
                            beautiful
                            yeah you are

                            Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                            lol

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                              i used to think about that sht all the time, and regret that i didn't know back then that some foods were causing me to be this overweight blob, and i didn't have to listen to my doctor when he said, with regret, that maybe i should just accept myself as i was because he had run out of ideas to help. i got over it.
                              your doctor actually said that? I hope that was the last time you ever set foot in his office

                              Comment


                              • he did a lot to help me, but even a few years ago pcos was widely unknown in the medical field. he did what he could, i googled a lot
                                beautiful
                                yeah you are

                                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                                lol

                                Comment

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