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Rippetoe's New Article - Must Read If You Have Strength Questions

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  • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
    As far as mundane tasks like picking something up and putting it on the shelf are concerned, and especially growing old and remaining functional, the person who has done stretching throughout his or her life is the one who is going to be able to pick something up off the floor and put it on a shelf, whether or not they have done strength exercises. Those who have lost their range of motion are the ones who will climb on a chair to reach a shelf they used to be able to reach with ease, then fall and break bones.
    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
    How can you lose your range of motion while performing the barbell lifts advocated by Coach Rip?
    I have never done barbells before now. I have noticed since doing them that I HAVE lost some range of motion. Without the range of motion to bend over and pick things up, it doesn't matter that I can squat 100lbs. I can't hardly wash my own damn feet or pick an almond up off the floor because I can't reach. I have started doing more stretching and it is helping.

    I honestly believe that lifting barbells is the easiest way to improve your strength. But like someone else said, it's only a hammer. And not everything I want to be able to do is pound nails. If I want to keep full range of motion I have to stretch. If I want to keep my aerobic fitness I have to walk and hike. If I want to keep from getting bruises every time I put on a backpack and sleep on quarter inch foam, I have to go backpacking. If I want to do a pullup or pushups I have to do pullups and pushups.

    And the other thing with barbell training is that it is very hard on the body. It's easy to overdo it in many ways. It might be great to be strong enough to lift 2x body weight but is it healthy? I feel my health has gotten worse since lifting even though I like lifting and plan to keep doing it until I think I'm "strong enough." Whatever that means to me. It can be very difficult to lift often enough to get the adaptation thing going but not too often that you get sick and stay sick. And getting enough sleep and protein can also be a challenge.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
      I have never done barbells before now. I have noticed since doing them that I HAVE lost some range of motion. Without the range of motion to bend over and pick things up, it doesn't matter that I can squat 100lbs. I can't hardly wash my own damn feet or pick an almond up off the floor because I can't reach. I have started doing more stretching and it is helping.

      I honestly believe that lifting barbells is the easiest way to improve your strength. But like someone else said, it's only a hammer. And not everything I want to be able to do is pound nails. If I want to keep full range of motion I have to stretch. If I want to keep my aerobic fitness I have to walk and hike. If I want to keep from getting bruises every time I put on a backpack and sleep on quarter inch foam, I have to go backpacking. If I want to do a pullup or pushups I have to do pullups and pushups.

      And the other thing with barbell training is that it is very hard on the body. It's easy to overdo it in many ways. It might be great to be strong enough to lift 2x body weight but is it healthy? I feel my health has gotten worse since lifting even though I like lifting and plan to keep doing it until I think I'm "strong enough." Whatever that means to me. It can be very difficult to lift often enough to get the adaptation thing going but not too often that you get sick and stay sick. And getting enough sleep and protein can also be a challenge.
      I don't understand how frequently squatting to depth and deadlifting can leave someone without the appropriate range of motion to pick things up off the floor. The concept honestly astonishes me.
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
        I don't understand how frequently squatting to depth and deadlifting can leave someone without the appropriate range of motion to pick things up off the floor. The concept honestly astonishes me.
        Take the deadlift, you lift a barbell off the floor. If you keep doing it, you will lose the ability to pick up things off the floor. I think Gorbag is right, strength is specific. I should stop lifting before it's too late, and I am in a feeble state with a 500lb deadlift which will leave me too inflexible to lift a box off the floor, and too specifically strong, just being able to exert force on a barbell and not much else.

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        • I think it is because I workout and I get sore. But I have a desk job so I sit down with my sore muscles and they get shortened as they heal. It's a bit frustrating.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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          • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            I don't understand how frequently squatting to depth and deadlifting can leave someone without the appropriate range of motion to pick things up off the floor. The concept honestly astonishes me.
            Today, the concept doesn't astonish me at all. I am very new to the barbell game, a couple of weeks in. I did squats and OH press and a few accessory exercises yesterday. I am all stove up today with that wonderful stiffness and soreness of DOMS, which makes it hard to pick up something off the floor.

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            • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              I think it is because I workout and I get sore. But I have a desk job so I sit down with my sore muscles and they get shortened as they heal. It's a bit frustrating.
              You might become less flexible than before but you won't lose fundamental flexibility such as to pick up stuff off the floor. If it's an issue, mobility work is good, no one argues against it. However, you won't lose the ability to perform everyday tasks from barbell workouts.

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              • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                A very pointless discussion until the "general strength " guys defines "strength" and put up the corresponding testing movements to measure it, which they still refuses to do...
                I finally get it. No one knows what strength is, and no one knows how to measure it. Guys like Ed Coan, with a squat of 1019lb, bench press of 584lb, and deadlift of 901lb or Mikhail Koklyaev who can snatch 315lb with one hand, are certainly not strong. I mean they're great at moving barbells around, but they probably can't even do a one hand chin-up, so they're not strong. All their strength is about barbell. I know that if I would be moving a big couch, I wouldn't want Ed Coan to help me. Hell, if he's never moved a couch before, he'll probably just hurt himself since his strength is so specific. Or say if I'd be hurt in battle overseas as a soldier, would I really want Koklyaev around with his 800lb double overhand grip for reps deadlift strength? I mean I'm not a barbell, so how would he possibly move my body to safety? I don't even want to mention how he would possible put me on his shoulders need be, because all he knows is how to squat 805lb with a barbell, which is a specific adaptation and would not apply to carrying a person on your shoulders.

                It all makes sense now...

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                • Originally posted by quikky View Post
                  I finally get it. No one knows what strength is, and no one knows how to measure it. Guys like Ed Coan, with a squat of 1019lb, bench press of 584lb, and deadlift of 901lb or Mikhail Koklyaev who can snatch 315lb with one hand, are certainly not strong. I mean they're great at moving barbells around, but they probably can't even do a one hand chin-up, so they're not strong. All their strength is about barbell. I know that if I would be moving a big couch, I wouldn't want Ed Coan to help me. Hell, if he's never moved a couch before, he'll probably just hurt himself since his strength is so specific. Or say if I'd be hurt in battle overseas as a soldier, would I really want Koklyaev around with his 800lb double overhand grip for reps deadlift strength? I mean I'm not a barbell, so how would he possibly move my body to safety? I don't even want to mention how he would possible put me on his shoulders need be, because all he knows is how to squat 805lb with a barbell, which is a specific adaptation and would not apply to carrying a person on your shoulders.

                  It all makes sense now...
                  Did you get the point that I repeated in most of my postings above that you also get a potential for carryover effect from the physiological adaptions - or maybe you only like to discuss for the sake of the discussion?
                  "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                  - Schopenhauer

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                    Did you get the point that I repeated in most of my postings above that you also get a potential for carryover effect from the physiological adaptions - or maybe you only like to discuss for the sake of the discussion?
                    I understand you perfectly, and I agree. Sure there is some carryover, I mean yeah, Ed Coan can probably lift the more heavy part of the couch than me, but realistically strength is specific, so he's just barbell strong. Ed Coan has a bit more carryover from "physiological adaptations" in those "muscle cells that have grown from his lifts", but he's probably just barely stronger than you and I for non-barbell things. Take the barbells away and he's just your average Joe with bigger muscles.

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                    • Originally posted by quikky View Post
                      I understand you perfectly, and I agree. Sure there is some carryover, I mean yeah, Ed Coan can probably lift the more heavy part of the couch than me, but realistically strength is specific, so he's just barbell strong. Ed Coan has a bit more carryover from "physiological adaptations" in those "muscle cells that have grown from his lifts", but he's probably just barely stronger than you and I for non-barbell things. Take the barbells away and he's just your average Joe with bigger muscles.
                      Let's test him in one legged legpress, one arm chinup's - or other for him unusual strength movements then...
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        Let's test him in one legged legpress, one arm chinup's - or other for him unusual strength movements then...
                        We're in agreement - Ed Coan is not strong, he just trained himself to be good with barbells, that's all there's to his strength.

                        For example, I used to play a lot of video games. My thumb and index finger are very developed. I can bet that I can press a Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan. Sure, he can squat up and down with over 1,000lb on his back, but that's a specific adaptation, only applicable to barbells, with maybe some carryover in a couple muscle fibers. If I can press this Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan, I'd say it's highly debatable which one of us is stronger.

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                        • Originally posted by quikky View Post
                          We're in agreement - Ed Coan is not strong, he just trained himself to be good with barbells, that's all there's to his strength.

                          For example, I used to play a lot of video games. My thumb and index finger are very developed. I can bet that I can press a Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan. Sure, he can squat up and down with over 1,000lb on his back, but that's a specific adaptation, only applicable to barbells, with maybe some carryover in a couple muscle fibers. If I can press this Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan, I'd say it's highly debatable which one of us is stronger.
                          LOL, you are still continuing this silly argument - and where have I said that Ed Conan is not strong? But everything is relative you know, is he strong when competing in a strongman competition or in olympic weightlifting? Maybe, or maybe not, since I don't know what he is able to do in those other settings. From photos he looks very strong though, no doubt about that...
                          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                          - Schopenhauer

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                            LOL, you are still continuing this silly argument - and where have I said that Ed Conan is not strong? But everything is relative you know, is he strong when competing in a strongman competition or in olympic weightlifting? Maybe, or maybe not, since I don't know what he is able to do in those other settings. From photos he looks very strong though, no doubt about that...
                            Well, you said strength is specific, i.e. just because someone can do a lot of weight with barbells doesn't mean they're strong because there are things like one arm chin-ups that they might not be able to do. I agree. Like I said, I can probably press a controller button harder than Ed Coan, because I have trained for it, so it's up for debate which one of us is stronger.

                            Let's take Strongman competitions, which often involve lifting large stones weighing 300lb+. I never in my life lifted giant round stones before. If Ed Coan is in the same position as me, I'd say we'll be pretty close if we chose to compete in one. Heck, I bet if I trained with big stones for a month or two, I could outlift him in Strongman. He'll probably herniate a disc if he tried, it's not like his back is trained to handle heavy loads - unless of course it's a barbell, which is all he's good at.

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                            • Originally posted by quikky View Post
                              Rip's new article on T- Nation:
                              It's a bit long winded. Could be shortened to "do manly stuff like squats and dead lift if you want to be strong". The end.

                              Comment


                              • quikky, well, he probably have very good genetic's and build for powerlifting, optimal leverage and all that. From the photos he appears to have very decent myofibrillar hyperthrophy, so it's pretty much a no-brainer that he also have a good carryover to other strength movement compared to the sedentary average joe or a recreational lifter as you probably are...
                                Last edited by Gorbag; 04-17-2013, 09:17 PM.
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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