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Rippetoe's New Article - Must Read If You Have Strength Questions

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  • #76
    Who is stronger; a guy that can pull himself up to the ceiling in a rope by a friend that clings to his feet or a big barrel chested guy with short t-rex arms bench pressing 500 pounds?
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
      Who is stronger; a guy that can pull himself up to the ceiling in a rope by a friend that clings to his feet or a big barrel chested guy with short t-rex arms bench pressing 500 pounds?
      According to the internet, the 500 pound bencher has a bigger dick. That we know for sure.
      I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
        Haha, strongman competitors are training with the objects they're required to move around in competitions. They are NOT pissing around with barbells and sacrificing recovery time when their time is better spent moving atlas stones, doing farmer walks for time, etc. Come on dude. They may hit the bars from time to time, but it's not their primary training tools.
        I call shenanigans. Here's a few articles I googled on training for Strongman. See if you can spot the common thread:

        Bodybuilding.com - Preparing For Strongman Competitions - My Workout!
        A Standard Template for the Strongman Competitor
        Strongman Training for Beginners | 70's Big
        Your First Strongman Competition, Tips, Tricks and Things You Should Know | Muscle and Brawn Bodybuilding, Powerlifting and Muscle Building.


        Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
        No, I'm postulating a 300lb deadlifter that has a weaker grip and therefore can't DL 200 with fatgripz. We don't know if the 200lb deadlifter can DL 300. Work with what I gave you. If your grip limits you on a lift, aren't you then weaker than the person that can put it up?
        I want to meet the guy who can DL 200 with Fat Gripz but can't DL 300. Or a unicorn. Until I see one of either, I claim they both don't exist. I'll bring the Fat Gripz.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
          Who is stronger; a guy that can pull himself up to the ceiling in a rope by a friend that clings to his feet or a big barrel chested guy with short t-rex arms bench pressing 500 pounds?
          Hard to say based on 2 unrelated data points, but let's just assume that both these people are strong (although the bench press is arguably the least indicative of general strenght out of the 4 main lifts).

          How did person A manage to get so strong? Was he raised by Chimpanzees and he grew up brachiating through the trees? Or did he challenge his CNS via progressive overload?
          The Champagne of Beards

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          • #80
            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            I want to meet the guy who can DL 200 with Fat Gripz but can't DL 300. Or a unicorn. Until I see one of either, I claim they both don't exist. I'll bring the Fat Gripz.
            Why are you avoiding the question? Don't change the hypothetical. Just say that a guy that can't DL 200 with fat gripz is weaker than the guy that can. Just say it. I need this victory. I need to win. Give me the win. Do it. 1, 2, 3, say it.

            I didn't read the articles, but I'm going to say fine, they must train with bar-bells but it would be suicide to step onto the competition itself without having properly practiced the movements, which are in and of themselves, very taxing "lifts."
            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post

              How did person A manage to get so strong? Was he raised by Chimpanzees and he grew up brachiating through the trees? Or did he challenge his CNS via progressive overload?
              Gentlemen... I believe we have a breakthrough...

              (the real answer is, he got strong by doing inverted deadlifts, because only the bar can get you strong)
              I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                According to the internet, the 500 pound bencher has a bigger dick. That we know for sure.
                Indeed! Years ago I assisted in doing some unusual tests on weightlifters, among them top powerlifters. I remember that especially the powerlifters sucked in chinups, and none of them managed to do a one arm chinup, even if they according to themselves are "the strongest pullers on the planet."
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                  Why are you avoiding the question? Don't change the hypothetical. Just say that a guy that can't DL 200 with fat gripz is weaker than the guy that can. Just say it. I need this victory. I need to win. Give me the win. Do it. 1, 2, 3, say it.
                  The guy who can DL 200# with Fat Gripz is likely stronger. Because he can probably DL 300 without the Fat Gripz.

                  Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                  I didn't read the articles, but I'm going to say fine, they must train with bar-bells but it would be suicide to step onto the competition itself without having properly practiced the movements, which are in and of themselves, very taxing "lifts."
                  Yeah duh. Nobody ever claimed that being strong alone is enough to make you successful in any sport. Of course you have to be able to perform the movements/lifts/whatever.

                  None of this refutes the argument that the optimal way to get as strong as possible as efficiently as possible is to progressively overload full-ROM, compound movements, like the squat, deadlift, and press. And the best tool yet invented to progressively overload full-ROM compound movements like the squat, deadlift, and press is the barbell.
                  The Champagne of Beards

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                    None of this refutes the argument that the optimal way to get as strong as possible as efficiently as possible is to progressively overload full-ROM, compound movements, like the squat, deadlift, and press. And the best tool yet invented to progressively overload full-ROM compound movements like the squat, deadlift, and press is the barbell.
                    See, I don't think anybody is trying to refute that at all. I certainly am not.

                    I do think gymnastic upper body development is superior to what can be accomplished with barbells. We could argue that one if you want. We're on the same team for the lower body.

                    I just noticed you also mentioned the press. Ah well.
                    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                      See, I don't think anybody is trying to refute that at all. I certainly am not.

                      I do think gymnastic upper body development is superior to what can be accomplished with barbells. We could argue that one if you want. We're on the same team for the lower body.

                      I just noticed you also mentioned the press. Ah well.
                      The standing press isn't solely an upper body movement though. It incorporates all the muscles that stabilize the trunk, to a large extent, and the legs in an isometric fashion, to a much smaller extent. Still qualifies as a full body lift in my book.

                      And even Rip's novice programming includes chinups. He's also stated that dips are a borderline "main" exercise (as opposed to an accessory exercise). Personally, I program my weighted chin-/pull-ups and dips according to the same framework as my squats, deadlifts, presses, and bench presses.

                      The point of the Rippetoe article was that strength is useful, general, and best created by sticking to progressively increasing your ability to perform the basic, main, compound lifts, and programming them correctly, not "tricking" or "confusing" your muscles by doing squats one week, bulgarian split squats the next, bosu ball goblet squats the next, and seated leg press the next.
                      The Champagne of Beards

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                      • #86
                        I'm reading this via my phone, so instead of typing up another response I'll just say I agree with everything Rich said.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          Indeed! Years ago I assisted in doing some unusual tests on weightlifters, among them top powerlifters. I remember that especially the powerlifters sucked in chinups, and none of them managed to do a one arm chinup, even if they according to themselves are "the strongest pullers on the planet."
                          You know pull/chin-up strength is relative to bodyweight, right? A 200lb person that can do 10 pull-ups is stronger than a 150lb person that can do 10, even though it's the same number of reps. The powerlifters still have more pulling strength. However, I'd you compete in the heaviest weight classes, you will be quite heavy. I mean doing chin-ups when toy weigh 280lb is no easy feat.

                          Better comparison would be if you tied a rope around a pulley with weight on the other end, and see who could pull more weight below their chin. I'd bet my money on the fat powerlifter.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by quikky View Post
                            Yeah, and since doing compound barbell lifts trains all the major muscle mass on the body, the strength gained has direct carryover to life.
                            No, only an indirect potential for a carryover to real life situations if you have grown relevant muscle fibers! If you can stimulate and grow the same muscle fibers with other movement you get the same potential carryover to life. Another thing is that heavy barbell compound for some people may be the most optimal muscle stimulus, but not for everybody. Personally my lower back get far more impact than my quadriceps when doing squats, so if I want to get more stimulus of lower thighs, I must do leg press instead.

                            I also disagree with Rippetoe about "assistant movements" like dumbbell curls or laterals, they don't need to be easy isolation movements, but can be relative heavy compound exercises as well! Ever tried heavy overload dumbbell cheating curls, using the whole body? Pick some 80 or 90 pounds dumbbells and do alternate standing curls with a supinated grip moving your hips explosive to get up the weight and slow down on the eccentric. When you can’t do any more reps, change to a hammer position and do cheating hammer-curl for at least 10 more reps! This exercise is a movement that works pretty much the whole body, and you can progress up to the really heavy dumbbells 150 -200 pound if you like, and you may feel sore in your whole body the day after…
                            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                            - Schopenhauer

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                            • #89
                              A guy that can squat 300 pounds will have no trouble doing pistol squats. A guy that only does pistol squats will probably need an ambulance if he tries to do a 300 pound squat. Being stronger makes everything you do easier.
                              Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by quikky View Post
                                You know pull/chin-up strength is relative to bodyweight, right?
                                I can tell you for sure that also a 150 pound powerlifter sucks in doing one armed chins from a dead position, if he have not trained especially for doing just that. It only confirms that "strength" is spesific and that we compares apples and oranges by comparing the "strength" of a gymnast and the "strength" of a weigthlifter...
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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