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How's my squat-free lifting plan look?

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  • #16
    You could aways try front squats. Many people find them more natural and it will be much easier for you to keep an upright torso. Could help with the back. I would try it out at any rate to see and this will allow you to alternate between deadlift and squat days.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
      i think that is the key for you. finding yourself a solid plan and then sticking to it. so you can see some measurable improvement/progress and build a good foundation. squats of any type, deadlifts, bench press/pushups, overhead press, dips, pullups/chinups, and rows are bascially the cornerstone lifts that you should build your program around. i break my lifts in to "push" and "pull" days. thats what works for me. you mentioned that you go to a gym. so you probably have access to all of the equipment needed to do all of these things. there are a lot of geople on this site who can help to get you moving in the right direction, and who can help you with form questions if you post videos and pictures. we're here if you need us
      You say you break up your split into push/pull, how is it you have the energy to do both Bench/dip and OH pressing?

      I like the idea of that kind of split, and it would work great on Pull day but for me, benching and pressing are exhausting tasks for my chest/shoulder I couldn't imagine doing both in one day!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Lockstock View Post
        You say you break up your split into push/pull, how is it you have the energy to do both Bench/dip and OH pressing?

        I like the idea of that kind of split, and it would work great on Pull day but for me, benching and pressing are exhausting tasks for my chest/shoulder I couldn't imagine doing both in one day!
        I actually don't bench anymore. In recent times, it has irritated my shoulders. I do my dips and some pushup variations to take care of those muscles

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        • #19
          Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
          I actually don't bench anymore. In recent times, it has irritated my shoulders. I do my dips and some pushup variations to take care of those muscles
          Do you add weight to the dips/pushups?

          I was thinking on cyclying between every horizontal push workout between dips and bench, so, one session 3x5 bench then the next horizontal push I do dips, this is just a measure to hopefully help avoid injuries with the bench? thoughts?

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          • #20
            It is funny that this thread had been revived after a year, and I just happened to log in to the forum again for the first time in a few months.

            I'm actually now squatting once a week at a strength based hardcore gym. It's pretty awesome, it's sort of a crossfit gym with an emphasis on strength rather than speed. No kipping pullups, and everything is based around a sort of 5/3/1 lifting schedule (Monday-squat/front squat rotation, Wednesday-BP/OHP, Friday Sumo/conventional deadlift). So squat day may be 5x3 squats working up to a new PR 3 topset, followed by box jumps/kettlebell swings, weighted walking lunges, then heavy prowler pushes as the finisher.

            I still struggle with squat form, and I am playing around a bit with it. I like to shoot my hips up first and good morning the weight, but now I am playing with a high-bar, wider stance. My front squats definitely feel more natural and are relatively stronger than my back squats.

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            • #21
              No one exercise is essential, there are always going to be viable alternatives that will provide the same results.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lockstock View Post
                Do you add weight to the dips/pushups?

                I was thinking on cyclying between every horizontal push workout between dips and bench, so, one session 3x5 bench then the next horizontal push I do dips, this is just a measure to hopefully help avoid injuries with the bench? thoughts?
                I actually don't add weight. I just enjoy doing them for reps. I also change up rep pace and for pushups, I do tons of variations, with typewriter pushups being my favorite.

                Originally posted by Dickson View Post
                It is funny that this thread had been revived after a year, and I just happened to log in to the forum again for the first time in a few months.

                I'm actually now squatting once a week at a strength based hardcore gym. It's pretty awesome, it's sort of a crossfit gym with an emphasis on strength rather than speed. No kipping pullups, and everything is based around a sort of 5/3/1 lifting schedule (Monday-squat/front squat rotation, Wednesday-BP/OHP, Friday Sumo/conventional deadlift). So squat day may be 5x3 squats working up to a new PR 3 topset, followed by box jumps/kettlebell swings, weighted walking lunges, then heavy prowler pushes as the finisher.

                I still struggle with squat form, and I am playing around a bit with it. I like to shoot my hips up first and good morning the weight, but now I am playing with a high-bar, wider stance. My front squats definitely feel more natural and are relatively stronger than my back squats.
                I'm a high bar squatter. It just feels more natural to me.

                Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
                No one exercise is essential, there are always going to be viable alternatives that will provide the same results.
                Everyone should be doing the squatting motion as a part of their workout. Period. It doesn't mean you need to use weight, or go nuts. It just means that everyone from the novice weightlifter to grandma squatting up and down out of her chair, should be doing some sort of squat. If you don't want to do them as a strength exercise, do them for a mobility exercise and do them unweighted. But for the love of god, squat up and down a few dozen times a week

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                  I actually don't add weight. I just enjoy doing them for reps. I also change up rep pace and for pushups, I do tons of variations, with typewriter pushups being my favorite.



                  I'm a high bar squatter. It just feels more natural to me.



                  Everyone should be doing the squatting motion as a part of their workout. Period. It doesn't mean you need to use weight, or go nuts. It just means that everyone from the novice weightlifter to grandma squatting up and down out of her chair, should be doing some sort of squat. If you don't want to do them as a strength exercise, do them for a mobility exercise and do them unweighted. But for the love of god, squat up and down a few dozen times a week
                  I've been thinking about this a lot. Folks like Eric Cressey don't normally have their athletes perform squats, just dead-lifts and single leg motions. Split squat, lunges variations, 1 legged squats etc and they excel.

                  I've wondering if a heavy barbell squats body weight and over are absolutely necessary for the human body. Of course, I agree the movement is necessary, but perhaps only for lightly weighted reps, or even no weight at all.


                  It seems to me, in nature, the only time a human would have something heavy on his shoulders would be to carry it over distance, not squat it. I was moving furniture the other day and not once did I "squat" all I did was dead-lift desks and beds and hiked heavy tables and boxes over my shoulders to the car.

                  The argument is different when talking about athletes for sure, but even then, I would venture to say that anything over a certain percentage of weight might not be necessary to achieve functional human fitness to be able to achieve a variety of tasks.

                  Thoughts?

                  bit of personal experience, I don't really squat. I haven't in quite a while and I only just started back to it. But I've been dead-lifting lots and well, I didn't really see the benefits either way. I feel as if I haven't lost anything (even though my squat weight is considerable lower) and never felt I had gained much when it was higher. :/
                  Last edited by Lockstock; 06-27-2014, 02:31 AM.

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                  • #24
                    To quote Gorbag's favorite author/coach:

                    Originally posted by Mark Rippetoe
                    The back squat is literally the only exercise in the entire repertoire of weighted human movement that allows the direct training of the complex movement pattern known as hip drive.
                    If you can squat, you should
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post

                      If you can squat, you should
                      Lockstock, this is what I'm saying. Someone like gorbag who doesn't use weighted squats to train for strength should still (and probably does) do some bodyweight squats for mobility and flexibility. Aside from walking, squatting is the most primitive natural movement we do. Before toilets (and in much of tbe world) you had to squat to take a dump. So I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Everyone should be squatting

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                        To quote Gorbag's favorite author/coach:



                        If you can squat, you should
                        With emphasis on ' If '.

                        If, however , you find it aggravates your knees, back or you plain and simple don't enjoy doing them then don't. Contrary to popular opinion your body will still function just fine and you will still build a body that is stronger and looks better than 99% of the population. Forcing yourself to do an exercise that you do not enjoy regardless of how effective it might be will be a futile effort as you will likely not give it 100% and might well even quit working out all together.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
                          With emphasis on ' If '.

                          If, however , you find it aggravates your knees, back or you plain and simple don't enjoy doing them then don't. Contrary to popular opinion your body will still function just fine and you will still build a body that is stronger and looks better than 99% of the population.
                          If squatting hurts you, you are squatting wrong. There is nothing harmful about a squat from a bio-mechanical standpoint. People usually get hurt because they squat incorrectly, and they are usually the ones saying squats are bad for your knees/back/grandma, or because they don't use common sense.

                          It's not that you cannot see results without squatting, it's that the results squats produce are superior to any other exercise you can do. So, if you care about good results, why not do the best exercise known? You don't have to go nuts, or start competing strength sports, but doing some squatting is beneficial for everyone.

                          The only people that should not squat are those with genuine medical pathologies - non-functional knees, broken bits, serious heart issues, etc. Tight hamstrings, weak ankles, dormant glutes, and all other common PT-concocted bullshit are not legitimate reasons.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by quikky View Post
                            If squatting hurts you, you are squatting wrong. There is nothing harmful about a squat from a bio-mechanical standpoint. People usually get hurt because they squat incorrectly, and they are usually the ones saying squats are bad for your knees/back/grandma, or because they don't use common sense.

                            It's not that you cannot see results without squatting, it's that the results squats produce are superior to any other exercise you can do. So, if you care about good results, why not do the best exercise known? You don't have to go nuts, or start competing strength sports, but doing some squatting is beneficial for everyone.

                            The only people that should not squat are those with genuine medical pathologies - non-functional knees, broken bits, serious heart issues, etc. Tight hamstrings, weak ankles, dormant glutes, and all other common PT-concocted bullshit are not legitimate reasons.
                            boom and +1
                            The Champagne of Beards

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by quikky View Post
                              If squatting hurts you, you are squatting wrong. There is nothing harmful about a squat from a bio-mechanical standpoint.
                              Not going to dig up the Bill DeSimone seminar where he points out why they are bad from a bio-mechanical standpoint as we have pretty much beat that one into the ground now.
                              All I'm saying is that if someone doesn't want to squat then don't squat. If a certain movement requires me to spend countless hours on perfecting the technique just so it doesn't aggravate my body then personally I'm going to choose an option that better suits me.It's as if some people have been brainwashed by this ' Thou shall squat at all costs ' bullshit, it might be a good exercise for some but the world won't come to a grinding halt if you don't want to do them. There are many more serious problems with how people work out than whether they squat or not.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by OldSchhool View Post
                                Not going to dig up the Bill DeSimone seminar where he points out why they are bad from a bio-mechanical standpoint as we have pretty much beat that one into the ground now.
                                All I'm saying is that if someone doesn't want to squat then don't squat. If a certain movement requires me to spend countless hours on perfecting the technique just so it doesn't aggravate my body then personally I'm going to choose an option that better suits me.It's as if some people have been brainwashed by this ' Thou shall squat at all costs ' bullshit, it might be a good exercise for some but the world won't come to a grinding halt if you don't want to do them. There are many more serious problems with how people work out than whether they squat or not.
                                If someone doesn't want to <blank>, then they don't have to <blank> can be said about anything. However, forums like this exist so we don't just talk about "better than nothing", or "just stuff I enjoy", but also "what is the best <food/exercise/method>".

                                Squats are one of the best exercises you can do and everyone can benefit from them. If someone doesn't want to do them, or feels like they can't do them, or instead wants to do leg curls, or P90X, or back flips on Bosu balls, that's perfectly fine by me. That's all subjective stuff that's pointless to argue about. Do whatever you feel like.

                                However, there's the objective part of it, the part not based on wants, or feelings, or psychology. This part is about bio-mechanics, strength, and systemic effects. Correctly performed squats do not have dangerous bio-mechanics, do produce more strength than any other substitute, and do exhibit human systemic effects not found with the vast majority of other exercises.

                                I don't care if someone doesn't do squats, just don't say doing the leg press is equally as good - it isn't.

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