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  • Two cents on cross fit wanted ?

    My Crossfit schedule has been 3 times per week, now the schedule will offer our time slot 5 days a week everyone is on board for the five days a week however, I have reservations about getting burned out or injured ? What are your thoughts ???
    Thanks
    Raise grass fed bison all natural. trying to gage this comunity to see if their is any intrest?

  • #2
    I don't remember if Rip mentions CrossFit by name in this excellent article, but he clearly has it in his sights: T NATION | Conditioning is a Sham
    The Champagne of Beards

    Comment


    • #3
      A GREAT read. Thanks for posting.

      Comment


      • #4
        I do crossfit, but I am not zealous about it. I came to crossfit with no background in athletics whatsoever, so my learning curve was a bit steeper than a lot of my fellow crossfitters. I've been at it for 9 months, and I'm just getting to the point where I can Rx some (very few) of the WODs. I enjoy it for the variety and the community, but I'm far from being some ripped and shredded poster girl.

        That being said, I know for myself that 5 days a week would be a disaster. I crossfit 3x a week, and I supplement with yoga/pilates 2-3x a week, which is something I highly recommend to anyone, crossfitter or not.

        For you? I don't know. We have lots of people who go 5+ days a week and seem to really enjoy it. I know myself and I know that I would burn out quickly on that schedule. I suppose a good indicator would be if you played competitive sports of any kind, in high school/college or beyond. I think a lot of the people who do well with the 5+ days a week training are comfortable in that zone from previous athletic experience. Just my totally unscientific observation.

        Comment


        • #5
          I go to my Crossfit box 4-5 times a week. I also lift weights (at my house--I have Olympic weights) 3 days a week and I run short distances (3 miles or less a couple times a week. I don't get burned out, but Crossfit isn't just a place to work out; I socialize there as well.
          http://www.cantneverdidanything.net/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Badkty22 View Post
            I do crossfit, but I am not zealous about it. I came to crossfit with no background in athletics whatsoever, so my learning curve was a bit steeper than a lot of my fellow crossfitters. I've been at it for 9 months, and I'm just getting to the point where I can Rx some (very few) of the WODs. I enjoy it for the variety and the community, but I'm far from being some ripped and shredded poster girl.

            That being said, I know for myself that 5 days a week would be a disaster. I crossfit 3x a week, and I supplement with yoga/pilates 2-3x a week, which is something I highly recommend to anyone, crossfitter or not.

            For you? I don't know. We have lots of people who go 5+ days a week and seem to really enjoy it. I know myself and I know that I would burn out quickly on that schedule. I suppose a good indicator would be if you played competitive sports of any kind, in high school/college or beyond. I think a lot of the people who do well with the 5+ days a week training are comfortable in that zone from previous athletic experience. Just my totally unscientific observation.
            +1 for adding Yoga, Pilates, or any flexibility/strength movement. With gains in lean muscle mass you still need the flexibility to use it.

            Comment


            • #7
              I do Crossfit 5x a week. I supplement with yoga. I think it just depends on your personal exercise tolerance level. Some people get burned out faster, whereas I tweak out if I don't go every day.

              How about you try out a week at 5x frequency by dropping in two classes in addition to your current three? See if it wipes you or if you feel okay.

              Comment


              • #8
                There's nothing wrong with training 5 times a week per se, it's more a matter of how you train and how you recover.

                In terms of training, CrossFit can be a big gamble. What will these 5 workouts look like? Who comes up with them? What is the methodology behind them? In a past life I did CrossFit from the main site. I basically followed the WOD. My observations were as follows:

                - No thought is given to muscle/joint overuse. It was common to have a, for example, shoulder intensive workout on Monday, followed by a shoulder intensive workout on a Tuesday, followed by a, you guessed it, shoulder intensive workout on Wednesday. Look at the last 6 workouts: high rep clean and jerks, high rep thrusters and chest to bar pull-ups, 2.25km of rowing for time plus toe to bars, high rep jerks, push presses, overhead squats, and presses, burpee pull-ups and power cleans mixed together for time, max effort 2RM thrusters. Shoulder surgeons must love CrossFit.

                - Some workouts seem absolutely ridiculous. For example, if you can't do muscle-ups, the suggestion is to do 3 pull-ups and 3 dips for every muscle-up. There were workouts that would have you do literally 100+ pull-ups and dips for time.

                - Good lifts used for stupid purposes. There were often workouts that had you do Olympic lifts (cleans, snatches) either for high reps, or in between other exhaustive exercises. This neglects the main reason to do Olympic lifts, which is to develop power, and increases risk of injury. Jerking up a heavy barbell 15 times when you've just sprinted a lap and done 50 burpees is not simply hard - it's stupid.

                From a recovery standpoint, are the workouts designed in a way such that all muscle groups are utilized but not over-trained? Are the coaches focused on quality over quantity? Can the coaches explain precisely why they choose certain exercises and the set/rep schemes that they use? Can they explain the physiology behind the workouts and how it will positively affect your fitness?

                Anyone can come up with a bunch of random exercises and tell someone to do them for time. Then, when questioned, just say it's all about muscle confusion and being ready for everything. For example, here are my WODs for this week:

                WOD 1
                - 10 pull-ups
                - 135lb back squat x10
                - Hop on one leg x10
                5 rounds for time

                WOD 2
                - Run 400m
                - 45lb dumbbell snatch x30
                - Run 800m
                - 135 clean and jerk x10
                - Open and close a moderately heavy door x50

                WOD 3 "Steve"
                - Skip 400m
                - 100 double unders
                - 100 kipping push-ups
                - Skip 400m
                - 50 clapping box jumps
                - Squat up and down on toilet x50
                - Skip 400m

                Try to answer why you should do other CrossFit workouts and not mine.

                Edit: Forgot to mention another thing, the whole Pukie the Clown and Uncle Rabdo situation is just reckless. If you think working out until you puke is good training, you're just disrespecting and abusing your body. Similarly, I don't know how rhabdomyolysis, a very serious medical emergency, is somehow mentioned in a positive light.
                Last edited by quikky; 04-03-2013, 10:38 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Forgot to mention another thing, the whole Pukie the Clown and Uncle Rabdo situation is just reckless. If you think working out until you puke is good training, you're just disrespecting and abusing your body. Similarly, I don't know how rhabdomyolysis, a very serious medical emergency, is somehow mentioned in a positive light.
                  First of all, this is just old-school Crossfit posturing from a few meatheads that has somehow perpetuated as "things Crossfit people say/do". Puking and rhabdo have no place in any Crossfit gym you'd actually go to these days, and coaches are incredibly careful to educate their clients and help them avoid stuff like rhabdo. I say this with the actual experience of having worked out at several Crossfit boxes in several different places around the country (I travel a lot for yoga teaching and always drop in at Crossfit in whatever new city I visit). Rhabdo = not cool. There are always a few crazies in every sport that give the whole community a bad name, and that's what's happened here, but it is absolutely not a reason someone should stay away from Crossfit in general, because it's simply not true.

                  In a past life I did CrossFit from the main site. I basically followed the WOD. My observations were as follows:

                  - No thought is given to muscle/joint overuse. It was common to have a, for example, shoulder intensive workout on Monday, followed by a shoulder intensive workout on a Tuesday, followed by a, you guessed it, shoulder intensive workout on Wednesday. Look at the last 6 workouts: high rep clean and jerks, high rep thrusters and chest to bar pull-ups, 2.25km of rowing for time plus toe to bars, high rep jerks, push presses, overhead squats, and presses, burpee pull-ups and power cleans mixed together for time, max effort 2RM thrusters. Shoulder surgeons must love CrossFit.

                  - Some workouts seem absolutely ridiculous. For example, if you can't do muscle-ups, the suggestion is to do 3 pull-ups and 3 dips for every muscle-up. There were workouts that would have you do literally 100+ pull-ups and dips for time.

                  - Good lifts used for stupid purposes. There were often workouts that had you do Olympic lifts (cleans, snatches) either for high reps, or in between other exhaustive exercises. This neglects the main reason to do Olympic lifts, which is to develop power, and increases risk of injury. Jerking up a heavy barbell 15 times when you've just sprinted a lap and done 50 burpees is not simply hard - it's stupid.
                  I defy you to find a Crossfit box that uses the main site's programming instead of creating their own programming. Can't be done. Crossfit gyms are affiliates, not franchises. They aren't beholden to the Crossfit site in any way. Nobody uses the main site, except seasoned trainers who maybe use the WODs for inspiration or put them together in complimentary ways to create a full week of programming. Just blindly doing the WODs on the site as they're posted is not doing Crossfit. You're missing the whole programming aspect. If you're not going to do Crossfit in an actual Crossfit gym with coaches, you need to be a trainer yourself and know how to program your own workouts using the tools given on the site.

                  From a recovery standpoint, are the workouts designed in a way such that all muscle groups are utilized but not over-trained? Are the coaches focused on quality over quantity? Can the coaches explain precisely why they choose certain exercises and the set/rep schemes that they use? Can they explain the physiology behind the workouts and how it will positively affect your fitness?
                  The answer to all these questions at all but one Crossfit box at which I've ever trained is yes. This is why people pay for it instead of just blindly doing the main site's WODs. You're paying for expert coaching and programming. And if the answer to any of these questions is "no", find a different box. The end.

                  Anyone can come up with a bunch of random exercises and tell someone to do them for time. Then, when questioned, just say it's all about muscle confusion and being ready for everything.
                  You're right. They can. They would, however, not be doing Crossfit.

                  I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, and I'm really not trying to just jump down your throat, but you're using a lot of common misconceptions to try to prove why Crossfit is bad, and that's just lazy arguing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                    First of all, this is just old-school Crossfit posturing from a few meatheads that has somehow perpetuated as "things Crossfit people say/do". Puking and rhabdo have no place in any Crossfit gym you'd actually go to these days, and coaches are incredibly careful to educate their clients and help them avoid stuff like rhabdo. I say this with the actual experience of having worked out at several Crossfit boxes in several different places around the country (I travel a lot for yoga teaching and always drop in at Crossfit in whatever new city I visit). Rhabdo = not cool. There are always a few crazies in every sport that give the whole community a bad name, and that's what's happened here, but it is absolutely not a reason someone should stay away from Crossfit in general, because it's simply not true.
                    This stuff is not coming from a few "meatheads" or "crazies", this is coming from CrossFit HQ. For example, the main site WOD is posted under an alias named "Pukie". This isn't some idiot trainer posting on his gym's site, this is THE CrossFit site. Of course, this doesn't mean they encourage puking, but there is a bit of a "nod" to it if you will, a bit of a sense of pride in how abusive they can make the workout. I think it's irresponsible and in poor taste.

                    Tell other CrossFitters you puked after a WOD. Will they tell you to watch the intensity and not overdo it, like they should? Or, will they kind of smile and nod, acknowledging how tough CrossFit is? I suspect the latter. Maybe I'm wrong.

                    Imagine if someone started a lifting web site where they posted lifting workouts daily under an alias "Johnny the Herniated Disc". Doesn't sound very professional or healthy, does it?

                    Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                    I defy you to find a Crossfit box that uses the main site's programming instead of creating their own programming. Can't be done. Crossfit gyms are affiliates, not franchises. They aren't beholden to the Crossfit site in any way. Nobody uses the main site, except seasoned trainers who maybe use the WODs for inspiration or put them together in complimentary ways to create a full week of programming. Just blindly doing the WODs on the site as they're posted is not doing Crossfit. You're missing the whole programming aspect. If you're not going to do Crossfit in an actual Crossfit gym with coaches, you need to be a trainer yourself and know how to program your own workouts using the tools given on the site.
                    I am not sure I follow you. So you're saying that you trust your local CrossFit coaches, that have been certified by CrossFit HQ, but you don't trust CrossFit HQ directly? It's like trusting the knowledge of the students more than the teachers. I understand the intensity of main site WODs might not be appropriate for many, but the programming? If HQ don't have the programming right, why do you think the local box does - they've been taught by HQ!

                    Also, what makes the coaches experts? To open a CrossFit affiliated gym you need:

                    - Level I CrossFit certification
                    - Money

                    Does this qualify you to structure intense workouts for a wide population to drive long-term adaptation in all physical domains, like CrossFit promises?

                    Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                    You're right. They can. They would, however, not be doing Crossfit.

                    I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, and I'm really not trying to just jump down your throat, but you're using a lot of common misconceptions to try to prove why Crossfit is bad, and that's just lazy arguing.
                    CrossFit being unstructured and just random is not a misconception, it's the truth. If you think your local boxes have actual structured programming, can you explain the reasoning behind it? Pick any local WODs that you do, and ask the coaches why specifically they choose the exercises that they do, the rep ranges that they use, the interaction between the exercises, the workout-to-workout progress and recovery, and how they envision long term progress in all the different physical stats beyond just getting better at WODs due to general endurance adaptations. The response I always heard was the CrossFit party line of "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains".

                    I've never heard of a concrete explanation of the programming. For example (you can substitute your local WODs), here are two very recent consecutive workouts from the main site:

                    WOD 1
                    For time:
                    115 pound Shoulder press, 10 reps
                    115 pound Overhead squat, 15 reps
                    115 pound Push press, 20 reps
                    115 pound Front squat, 25 reps
                    115 pound Push jerk, 30 reps
                    115 pound Back squat, 35 reps

                    WOD 2
                    Row 1000 meters
                    20 GHD sit-ups
                    Row 750 meters
                    40 Toes to bar
                    Row 500 meters
                    60 Sit-ups

                    Find me a single person who can explain why those exact exercises were used, why for those rep ranges, why with those weights? Also, how does this fit, precisely, into a long-term plan and how will progress on all these things be measured?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tell other CrossFitters you puked after a WOD. Will they tell you to watch the intensity and not overdo it, like they should? Or, will they kind of smile and nod, acknowledging how tough CrossFit is? I suspect the latter. Maybe I'm wrong.
                      You may be, and are, wrong. Okay, I shouldn't say that as such an absolute, so: that hasn't been my experience. And I've had a pretty widely varied Crossfit experience. What you describe just does not and would not happen among the vast majority of Crossfit coaches and clients. Again, there are always the Crossfit dudebros who are very vocal about how badass their puking is, but they comprise maybe 1% of the Crossfitting population. I've heard people talk about puking during a workout generally to the tune of, "It happened once, it was the worst, I went way too hard, I've listened to my body since then." And my coaches straight up say, "You should not be making yourself puke." Those exact words.

                      I am not sure I follow you. So you're saying that you trust your local CrossFit coaches, that have been certified by CrossFit HQ, but you don't trust CrossFit HQ directly?
                      I can see why that would confuse you, but basically, yes.

                      If HQ don't have the programming right, why do you think the local box does - they've been taught by HQ!
                      I'm sorry to be blunt, but this just illustrates how little you know what you're talking about. The vast majority of Crossfit coaches (okay, I'll qualify: that I have met and worked with) are either ex-athletes or longtime trainers with years and years of training and programming experience in a huge variety of athletic fields. They get their Level 1 Cert so that they are allowed to affiliate as Crossfit. But their training and programming expertise is actually that, expertise. Most coaches at my box list their Crossfit cert last on a long list of qualifications. Why, you might ask, don't they just open their own gyms and do their own training, then? Well, because 1) they genuinely love Crossfit and being part of the global xfit community, and 2) they want to make money.

                      To open a CrossFit affiliated gym you need:

                      - Level I CrossFit certification
                      - Money
                      Agreed. And there are definitely boxes that have shitty programming and shitty coaching, and I've said in this thread and many others that your experience with Crossfit is all about the programming/coaching and you have to find a good box. But honestly, in my experience, these crappy boxes are more rare than you'd think. Most Crossfit affiliates I've been to are excellent.

                      Pick any local WODs that you do, and ask the coaches why specifically they choose the exercises that they do, the rep ranges that they use, the interaction between the exercises, the workout-to-workout progress and recovery, and how they envision long term progress in all the different physical stats beyond just getting better at WODs due to general endurance adaptations. The response I always heard was the CrossFit party line of "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains".
                      We have had very, very different experiences, then. My coaches are incredibly thoughtful, knowledgable, and expert in the field. They can--and do, all the time, when people stay behind after class to ask questions--give long, detailed explanations of elements, form, programming, recovery, you name it. Long story short, there is a method to their madness and they can explain that method down to its underpinnings. That blows that you've been given rote answers, but it's just not been my experience at the majority of gyms at which I've trained. (And really, it's incredibly obvious when an affiliate is not up to snuff. There's one in particular in CA at which I trained recently that was appallingly bad in its coaching and programming, and the coach could barely take a stab at answering deeper questions. But that was one single experience in... it's probably been ten or eleven different Crossfits I've been to, over the past couple years, all over the country and also in Canada.)

                      WOD 1
                      For time:
                      115 pound Shoulder press, 10 reps
                      115 pound Overhead squat, 15 reps
                      115 pound Push press, 20 reps
                      115 pound Front squat, 25 reps
                      115 pound Push jerk, 30 reps
                      115 pound Back squat, 35 reps

                      WOD 2
                      Row 1000 meters
                      20 GHD sit-ups
                      Row 750 meters
                      40 Toes to bar
                      Row 500 meters
                      60 Sit-ups
                      I agree that those are badly thought-out WODs, and I've never done one like that at any xfit gym. I will reiterate: when you go to Crossfit, you are paying for the specialized programming and coaching; you are not simply paying for people to watch you do the main site WODs, and friends to do them with.

                      Find me a single person who can explain why those exact exercises were used, why for those rep ranges, why with those weights? Also, how does this fit, precisely, into a long-term plan and how will progress on all these things be measured?
                      I'm sure whoever created those workouts had a goal in mind, but since those workouts would never get thrown at me at my box, I don't really care to think about it too hard. It's kind of a moot point, y'know?

                      The OP of this thread is working out at an actual Crossfit gym with that gym's particular programming. Talking about the main site WODs just doesn't really apply. If you spent any time in the xfit community, at a xfit gym, listened to any xfit podcasts or read any magazines or anything, you'd glean pretty quickly that the sport has evolved waaaaaaaaay beyond the main site's offerings. It's a whole different animal from what you perceive. I'm not saying you're wrong or dumb; I can totally see how you picked up those perceptions. But they're just not applicable to the current Crossfit landscape. And they're especially useless when giving advice to someone who isn't just trying to hack it out on their own, who is indeed being coached and following specialized programming.

                      You can dislike Crossfit all you want. It's really okay. It won't offend me. I'm just trying to offer a counterpoint to your perceptions, which were possibly well-founded at one point in time, but don't apply to Crossfit as it currently exists.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        You may be, and are, wrong. Okay, I shouldn't say that as such an absolute, so: that hasn't been my experience. And I've had a pretty widely varied Crossfit experience. What you describe just does not and would not happen among the vast majority of Crossfit coaches and clients. Again, there are always the Crossfit dudebros who are very vocal about how badass their puking is, but they comprise maybe 1% of the Crossfitting population. I've heard people talk about puking during a workout generally to the tune of, "It happened once, it was the worst, I went way too hard, I've listened to my body since then." And my coaches straight up say, "You should not be making yourself puke." Those exact words.
                        Like I said, this attitude comes from HQ. Obviously you can find counterexamples, but the organization behind the training has, to an extent, the attitude I described.

                        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        I'm sorry to be blunt, but this just illustrates how little you know what you're talking about. The vast majority of Crossfit coaches (okay, I'll qualify: that I have met and worked with) are either ex-athletes or longtime trainers with years and years of training and programming experience in a huge variety of athletic fields. They get their Level 1 Cert so that they are allowed to affiliate as Crossfit. But their training and programming expertise is actually that, expertise. Most coaches at my box list their Crossfit cert last on a long list of qualifications. Why, you might ask, don't they just open their own gyms and do their own training, then? Well, because 1) they genuinely love Crossfit and being part of the global xfit community, and 2) they want to make money.
                        So do they follow the methodology from CrossFit, or do they follow their own? Because if they just do their own thing and ignore CrossFit HQ, they're not really doing CrossFit, are they?

                        I'm not talking about just following main site WOD, I'm talking about following CrossFit's methodology, training principles, and overall structure.

                        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        Agreed. And there are definitely boxes that have shitty programming and shitty coaching, and I've said in this thread and many others that your experience with Crossfit is all about the programming/coaching and you have to find a good box. But honestly, in my experience, these crappy boxes are more rare than you'd think. Most Crossfit affiliates I've been to are excellent.
                        I don't know about the statistics behind CrossFit box quality nor how rare or common bad ones are.

                        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        We have had very, very different experiences, then. My coaches are incredibly thoughtful, knowledgable, and expert in the field. They can--and do, all the time, when people stay behind after class to ask questions--give long, detailed explanations of elements, form, programming, recovery, you name it. Long story short, there is a method to their madness and they can explain that method down to its underpinnings. That blows that you've been given rote answers, but it's just not been my experience at the majority of gyms at which I've trained. (And really, it's incredibly obvious when an affiliate is not up to snuff. There's one in particular in CA at which I trained recently that was appallingly bad in its coaching and programming, and the coach could barely take a stab at answering deeper questions. But that was one single experience in... it's probably been ten or eleven different Crossfits I've been to, over the past couple years, all over the country and also in Canada.)
                        Please explain their programming then. Pick the best coach from the best gym you've worked with, pick some workouts, and explain the precise methodology behind them. I realize this is a bit of work, and I imagine you won't do it, but my point still stands. I've never seen CrossFit programming explained with precision. If you can explain it, please do, I'd like to hear it.

                        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        I agree that those are badly thought-out WODs, and I've never done one like that at any xfit gym. I will reiterate: when you go to Crossfit, you are paying for the specialized programming and coaching; you are not simply paying for people to watch you do the main site WODs, and friends to do them with.
                        Don't you usually work in a class and do the box's WOD? What are the last several WODs from a gym you go to, if you don't mind posting?

                        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        The OP of this thread is working out at an actual Crossfit gym with that gym's particular programming. Talking about the main site WODs just doesn't really apply. If you spent any time in the xfit community, at a xfit gym, listened to any xfit podcasts or read any magazines or anything, you'd glean pretty quickly that the sport has evolved waaaaaaaaay beyond the main site's offerings. It's a whole different animal from what you perceive. I'm not saying you're wrong or dumb; I can totally see how you picked up those perceptions. But they're just not applicable to the current Crossfit landscape. And they're especially useless when giving advice to someone who isn't just trying to hack it out on their own, who is indeed being coached and following specialized programming.

                        You can dislike Crossfit all you want. It's really okay. It won't offend me. I'm just trying to offer a counterpoint to your perceptions, which were possibly well-founded at one point in time, but don't apply to Crossfit as it currently exists.
                        How is CrossFit now a different animal? You still do WODs, you still do short intense random (until proven otherwise, this is what they are) workouts, you still believe it is the way to attaining high level strength, endurance, flexibility, etc that CrossFit promises, don't you? Tell me how it is now "waaaaaaaaay" beyond that.

                        Also, if CrossFit is now detached from HQ's programming and teachings, which is what you're implying, you're just doing your own circuit training and calling it CrossFit. In my earlier post I made up a bunch of crap WODs, can I call them CrossFit? If not, what constitutes a true CrossFit workout and overall program?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Like I said, this attitude comes from HQ.
                          I actually totally agree with this, and cringe and laugh at some of the shit they put out. Especially some of these WODs we've been doing for the open this year; I think they're stupid crazy, some of them downright dangerous. Where you're going wrong, though, is assuming the HQ attitude is the attitude shared and propagated by the affiliates. It couldn't be further from the truth. Affiliates are really like their own little separate subcultures, with their own programming and training philosophies. Everyone's bound together under the greater Crossfit methodology and movements, but there's a much higher degree of differentiation and individuality than you think.

                          Pick the best coach from the best gym you've worked with, pick some workouts, and explain the precise methodology behind them. I realize this is a bit of work, and I imagine you won't do it, but my point still stands.
                          Well... no, actually, it doesn't, necessarily. Simply because I don't have the time, obligation, or quite frankly the slightest smidge of motivation to do all your research for you, does not mean your point is valid.

                          And what is your point, exactly? "Crossfit is bad"? Cool, agree to disagree. I've already said your opinion doesn't offend me, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong. It's a debatable point. You're just using invalid evidence to debate it. The things you said earlier about high-rep oly lifting and combinations of joint stressors? Now that is valid evidence, and I'd be interested in having (and do have, actually, with fellow Crossfitters) a conversation about that.

                          But you've basically walked into this thread started by an already avid Crossfitter and said, "Crossfit is bad because they glorify puking and rhabdo and their workouts have crazy shitballs programming and their coaches can't explain dick about anything." I was just trying to point out that those are misconceptions rooted in a long-standing cliche that doesn't hold true to the current state of the sport.

                          How is Crossfit now a different animal?
                          Put simply: money. Last year the winner's purse at the Crossfit Games was half a million dollars. It's only going to go up. The entrants to the sport these days aren't just garage gym enthusiasts, they're NFL contenders and top-level collegiate athletes looking to make their mark in a new sport on which attention, sponsorships, and cold hard cash are current raining like Hurricane Sandy. So, along with this skyrocketing of Crossfit's profile comes a higher degree of differentiation between boxes and their training styles. Coaches become "name" coaches. Boxes aren't just gyms for typical people looking to get in shape, they're also training centers looking to attract and develop elite athletes for competition. What I'm trying to say is that when you say "Crossfit", you mean a style of workout, and when the actual Crossfit community says "Crossfit", they mean a culture based on a hugely profitable up-and-coming sport. I know that sounds hyperbolic and grandiose, but it's the reality of where it's come since the days of guys slamming around weights in their homemade garage gyms based on WODs posted to Crossfit.com.

                          So it could be that we're just talking about two diferent things, here.

                          In my earlier post I made up a bunch of crap WODs, can I call them Crossfit?
                          I'm not super knowledgable about the affiliate requirements vis-a-vis programming, but from what little I know about it, having a couple friends who own their own affiliates: yup, as long as you had a Level 1 and were affiliated, you could basically do that. I don't know why you would, because your gym would probably not make money or gain clients, and your liability insurance would probably not survive the injuries you'd end up inflicting on what clients you did have, and it would be sort of a shitty way to generally exist in life, but dude, you do what you want.

                          If you can explain it, please do, I'd like to hear it.
                          I totally can't. Never claimed I could. That's why I pay qualified fitness professionals to do it for me. If you'd like good programming designed by people who know what they're doing and executed with an eye for form, progress, and recovery, well... you could do what I did, and find a really good Crossfit box to join. Seriously, though, I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you of anything, and I'm certainly not going to get into a dick-waving contest over who knows more about programming, or watch you pick apart specific WODs I've done. That's pointless and tiresome. My only aim was to offer a counterpoint to some of your claims, based on my experience with Crossfit. Agree, disagree, like Crossfit, hate Crossfit, it's entirely up to you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            Where you're going wrong, though, is assuming the HQ attitude is the attitude shared and propagated by the affiliates. It couldn't be further from the truth.
                            Maybe, but it's quite logical to be suspect of those who are affiliated with an organization that supports such views.

                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            Well... no, actually, it doesn't, necessarily. Simply because I don't have the time, obligation, or quite frankly the slightest smidge of motivation to do all your research for you, does not mean your point is valid.

                            And what is your point, exactly? "Crossfit is bad"? Cool, agree to disagree. I've already said your opinion doesn't offend me, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong. It's a debatable point. You're just using invalid evidence to debate it. The things you said earlier about high-rep oly lifting and combinations of joint stressors? Now that is valid evidence, and I'd be interested in having (and do have, actually, with fellow Crossfitters) a conversation about that.
                            My point, in this particular case, is that CrossFit does not have structure behind their programming. Lack of methodology behind a training plan can lead to all kinds of things, from lackluster results, to over-training and injury.

                            It's not just main site WODs, it's pretty much all WODs I have seen. I didn't expect you to do any research, I was just entertaining that I would be open to the idea.

                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            But you've basically walked into this thread started by an already avid Crossfitter and said, "Crossfit is bad because they glorify puking and rhabdo and their workouts have crazy shitballs programming and their coaches can't explain dick about anything." I was just trying to point out that those are misconceptions rooted in a long-standing cliche that doesn't hold true to the current state of the sport.
                            Well, the OP is concerned with injury and over-training and is asking for advice about CrossFit. My observations regarding its lack of cohesion fit pretty well with the potential for such things to happen.

                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            Put simply: money. Last year the winner's purse at the Crossfit Games was half a million dollars. It's only going to go up. The entrants to the sport these days aren't just garage gym enthusiasts, they're NFL contenders and top-level collegiate athletes looking to make their mark in a new sport on which attention, sponsorships, and cold hard cash are current raining like Hurricane Sandy. So, along with this skyrocketing of Crossfit's profile comes a higher degree of differentiation between boxes and their training styles. Coaches become "name" coaches. Boxes aren't just gyms for typical people looking to get in shape, they're also training centers looking to attract and develop elite athletes for competition. What I'm trying to say is that when you say "Crossfit", you mean a style of workout, and when the actual Crossfit community says "Crossfit", they mean a culture based on a hugely profitable up-and-coming sport. I know that sounds hyperbolic and grandiose, but it's the reality of where it's come since the days of guys slamming around weights in their homemade garage gyms based on WODs posted to Crossfit.com.

                            So it could be that we're just talking about two diferent things, here.
                            I don't see how CrossFit's fundamental approach has changed based on what you say. If a typical person does CrossFit at a gym now, versus say 3 years ago, what has fundamentally changed? You're talking about the top echelons, not the typical case.

                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            I'm not super knowledgable about the affiliate requirements vis-a-vis programming, but from what little I know about it, having a couple friends who own their own affiliates: yup, as long as you had a Level 1 and were affiliated, you could basically do that. I don't know why you would, because your gym would probably not make money or gain clients, and your liability insurance would probably not survive the injuries you'd end up inflicting on what clients you did have, and it would be sort of a shitty way to generally exist in life, but dude, you do what you want.
                            This partly illustrates my point. If I am free to concoct random bullshit for workouts and it's a-OK by the organization behind the sport, what does it say about the organization and the inherent quality one might encounter?

                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            I totally can't. Never claimed I could. That's why I pay qualified fitness professionals to do it for me. If you'd like good programming designed by people who know what they're doing and executed with an eye for form, progress, and recovery, well... you could do what I did, and find a really good Crossfit box to join.
                            If you can't explain the programming, it means you don't understand it and/or it has not been presented to you clearly. Since that is the case, how can you determine that the coaches you work with are indeed the good ones?

                            One last point I wanted to make was in regards to qualifications. You said many of the coaches you work with have been in the industry for a long time and have a long list of credentials, on top of which are their CrossFit certifications. Well, that might make them good at coaching whatever non-CrossFit stuff they know, but it doesn't translate to CrossFit per se. Specifically, a weight lifting coach might be great at teaching and programming for Olympic lifting, a running coach might be great at teaching running technique and training runners, a gymnastics coach... etc. This has carryover to teaching specific movements and techniques but not CrossFit programming.

                            What certification out there teaches someone how to properly combine running, rowing, jump roping, weight lifting, gymnastics etc, into a cohesive, sustainable, and effective program that develops all aspects of fitness?
                            Last edited by quikky; 04-04-2013, 10:48 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I have lifted weights for 15+ years. I have never been injured. I tried cross fit earlier late last year and i had to layoff weights for a month thanks to an injury. Thanks, but no thanks.
                              Few but ripe.

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