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Lyle McDonald's "Getting Rid of Stubborn Body Fat" protocol...

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  • #31
    Ripped, what I said in my posting is not that controversial and there are plenty of science, anecdotical evidence and common sense to back it up, but I have no time to go into this now...
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
      I think that being around 8 - 12 % of bodyfat is very healthy for older guys, and at the level you have more than enough bodyfat to use in a emergency. For me it is not about seing abs, but because I feel more energetic and my libido is even better at that level, than at a higher bodyfat...
      All legit. I was just making a point to the "lower is always better" sort of mentality. That and this nonsense/bullshit about a bunch of people just walking around living at 3% body fat.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
        My English is sloppy and I suck in grammar and orthography, so beware! Except from that; I am always right in what I am trying to say…
        I know what you meant . I was just joking round.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
          Ripped, what I said in my posting is not that controversial and there are plenty of science, anecdotical evidence and common sense to back it up, but I have no time to go into this now...
          It appeared to me that all you were really saying was that it's harder to get lean while maintaining muscle when you are older. And I don't think I fully disagreed with that; even at my age, staying strong is surely harder, unless I really work my ass off.

          But I would argue that while it may be more difficult, it isn't as much as people think, and it isn't impossible. That's the loser mindset. If you don't try you won't know.

          And as I already mentioned, assuming you are correct, it doesn't change the fundamental requirements to achieving such a goal.

          With that being said, and in response to the initial question on the thread, I don't think there is anything magical about Lyle's recommendations. It's all about calories. That doesn't mean that such workouts can't help, because they can. However, one could easily replace those sessions with something fun such as hiking or sex, and that'd do the same exact thing.

          That's modern marketing for you. It's famous for brainwashing people into dogmatically and irrationally putting magic where it doesn't belong. It's all to make a buck. And it works. It really is amazing how such marketing can spread memes like the black plague.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            In reality it is VERY dangerous to purposely maintain a super lean state well into your golden years. Fat isn't always a bad thing. In the aged its a buffer to disease. Those who are too lean may very well be one significant injury or illness away from death. That fat is energy stores... not just for those 16 hours your IF'ing.... but for when you are ill or injured as well.
            If you do the calculations, if you went an entire week without food, you'd only lose a few lbs of actual fat. So with the example of a 150 lb man, even as low as 6% would still be safe. Also mind you that most forms of prediction such as calipers and underwater weighing are double when compared to a DEXA scan which is supposed to be more accurate. And if that's true, than one would probably be a lot safer than you'd think.

            I know Clarence Bass doesn't get down to 3% anymore and hasn't in decades since his bodybuilding years. He actually maintains less than 10% all year long and gets down to around 5% for his photos. He has been sick and gotten at least one operation that I know of, and he's quite fine.

            So, I totally agree with you. But you actually can go a lot lower than what most people think. The numbers are there and as far as I know it, there's no reason why being lean would have any harm. Even being as low as 10% body fat would still give you enough fat to last you if you were sick in a hospital and in a coma for a month. (Do the calculations.) And even if it wasn't, the doctors would still feed you anyways, so you'd have nothing to worry about.

            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            Oh, and you live in a place its not uncommon to see guys walking around at 3%BF ... A bunch of em? Ah, bullshit.
            Where do you live? Do you REALLY think people all around the world have as much access to food as they do in modern countries such as the USA and UK? REALLY? Keep on dreaming!!!

            I live in the Philippines where most jobs are minimum wage or slightly over, which is only 275 php per day, which equates to about 6$ per day. Can you get fat with such little pay? Have fun trying, if you can even have enough food. Look up the obesity rate by country, and you probably won't even find philippines on the list, because I VERY rarely see fat people out here, it's almost a nonexistent phenomenon, unless you've got more money which most people don't.

            Most people out here are small anyways. The culture is different. Most women are less than 45 kg and think they're fat if they get any heavier. The guys tend to be a bit heavier such as 55 kg. Some richer people or drinkers are fatter with a belly. Most construction workers are ripped. A good portion of the bodybuilders are ripped as well. And when I asked them how they did it, they said just by diet.

            So are most people out here ripped? NO! Most people are healthily lean. But seeing ripped people isn't uncommon.

            When I did construction work as a teenager, in the USA, I regularly maintained a reasonably lean 170 lb body, all while eating what ever I wanted. 4 meals per day, burgers, fries, sugary drinks, etc.. It was A LOT of calories!!! What do you think would happen to a construction worker who could only afford fish and rice?

            If you REALLY want to go around calling people liars, please do your homework fist.
            Thanks

            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            You live in fantasy land, or on a bodybuilding stage for the couple hours guys reach that level.
            No, I live in a 3rd world country where most people can barely afford to eat.
            Last edited by Ripped; 09-09-2013, 04:04 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Ripped View Post
              If you REALLY want to go around calling people liars, please do your homework fist.
              Thanks

              No, I live in a 3rd world country where most people can barely afford to eat.
              I don't need to do homework to know that 3% bf is not sustainable. That was in some basic coursework done long ago. So now you are gonna try and claim that the context of your original post was that you frequently see starving dying people at 3% body fat? Seemed to me you were saying it was a normal day to day thing to see healthy people at your gym or something doing so. If you in fact totally meant that you see people drop dead in the street from starvation at 3% body fat, and that was your argument.....well then I guess I took your comment out of context.

              A quick googling shows the Philippines have an average BMI of 22.9. Couldn't find any quick data on their measured BF though. But thats not really here nor there with regards to the original posting and what we were discussing.
              Last edited by Neckhammer; 09-09-2013, 08:18 AM.

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              • #37
                Sorry to interrupt ... but 3% BF, would that be ... the brain matter ?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
                  Sorry to interrupt ... but 3% BF, would that be ... the brain matter ?
                  I guess it start around that level! Brain tissue and marrow inside you bones and then you're gone...

                  "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                  - Schopenhauer

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                    I don't need to do homework to know that 3% bf is not sustainable. That was in some basic coursework done long ago. So now you are gonna try and claim that the context of your original post was that you frequently see starving dying people at 3% body fat? Seemed to me you were saying it was a normal day to day thing to see healthy people at your gym or something doing so. If you in fact totally meant that you see people drop dead in the street from starvation at 3% body fat, and that was your argument.....well then I guess I took your comment out of context.

                    A quick googling shows the Philippines have an average BMI of 22.9. Couldn't find any quick data on their measured BF though. But thats not really here nor there with regards to the original posting and what we were discussing.
                    I just don't think he knows what 3% body-fat is.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #40
                      Let me re-phrase my question. Does consumption of dietary fat hinder or slow lipolysis that has been induced by HIIT while in a fasted state?

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                      • #41
                        Hi,
                        Lived in the Philippines for several years and gotta say most people not living in a big city like Manila were lean but definately not ripped. The lean states were due more to lack of nutrition than anything else.
                        As far as maintaining 3% body fat, not really realistic. Even the Body builders I knew would maintain around 6-8% and cut down
                        as much as possible for contests. As soon as the contest was over they quickly raised they're body fat. 3% is the absolute minimum the human body requires before it will start to shut down. I personally find 8-10 relatively sustainable regardless of exercise level, but wholly dependent on being focused on diet. Muscle mass will be determined by my exercise type and level.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mini_mi View Post
                          Hi,
                          Lived in the Philippines for several years and gotta say most people not living in a big city like Manila were lean but definately not ripped. The lean states were due more to lack of nutrition than anything else.
                          As far as maintaining 3% body fat, not really realistic. Even the Body builders I knew would maintain around 6-8% and cut down
                          as much as possible for contests. As soon as the contest was over they quickly raised they're body fat. 3% is the absolute minimum the human body requires before it will start to shut down. I personally find 8-10 relatively sustainable regardless of exercise level, but wholly dependent on being focused on diet. Muscle mass will be determined by my exercise type and level.
                          Thanks. I think that's a much more realistic view of what I was talking about. It's not like I go around with calipers testing everyone I see on the street, haha.

                          And most of the methods for prediction vary widely. Like I said, DEXA scans seem to predict double the other methods, so I really am convinced that going by body fat percentage can be useless, going by feel and the mirror might be a better way.

                          The only real thing I can say is that I do see a lot of very lean people around. And the bodybuilders don't seem to have too much trouble leaning out either. If you maintain 6-8% yearly, which you should already have a six pack and is also phenomenal compared to american standards, it isn't going to be that hard to cut down further than that because you don't have much to go.

                          I guess my main point of my initial statement is, it's not as hard to be lean as people in the USA typically think. Sure, it is hard when you're eating cookies and cup cakes all the time, but not when you're eating simple foods. And while I don't see people dying in the streets, yes they can afford to eat enough to live, but just not enough to make them fat.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                            I think that being around 8 - 12 % of bodyfat is very healthy for older guys, and at the level you have more than enough bodyfat to use in a emergency. For me it is not about seing abs, but because I feel more energetic and my libido is even better at that level, than at a higher bodyfat...
                            I think that seems about right. I'm sure you could go lower and still be healthy. But I guess in case of emergency you wouldn't want to go too low, such as less than 6%, which is quite rare anyways.

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                            • #44
                              This is an old thread however would this protocol work?

                              Treadmill straight away to incline highest at 15% for 10 mins - then incline down to 7 @ 3.5 mph for 30 mins?

                              Thanks!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by fkjr2 View Post
                                This is an old thread however would this protocol work?

                                Treadmill straight away to incline highest at 15% for 10 mins - then incline down to 7 @ 3.5 mph for 30 mins?

                                Thanks!
                                What are you trying to achieve?

                                Comment

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