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Differences between dumb-bell deadlifts and dumb-bell squats?

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  • #16
    The squat at the bottom and deadlift at the start are similar, especially in leg positioning.
    Some differences:
    1. Generally, the thighs are parallel or lower for squat and slightly less than parallel for deadlift. The start of deadlift looks closer to 85% of the way down of the squat.
    2. Your back is not near as bent over at the bottom of a squat as it is at the start of a deadlift. At the start of the DL, you should be bent over enough so that your shoulders are roughly 10 degrees (estimate) in front of the bar. That should be 10 degrees in front of the balls of your feet. This would be dangerous at the bottom of your squat- try it out.

    During the squat, including the bottom, your chin should be up so that if you were wearing a hat, the bill would be parallel to the floor, straight foward. At the start of the deadlift, a line drawn straight out from the bill would hit the floor at an angle, at a point out in front of you. Where you look with your eyes is up to you.
    Last edited by mrhtower; 01-30-2013, 01:48 PM.

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    • #17
      cayla- my squat used to be higher than my DL too, although I didn't DL near as much... But with a squat, you're moving the weight close to twice the distance and starting off with a negative, with less muscles. Sure the quads are stronger than the hamstrings, and the squats hit the quads harder than any other workout. But, DLs hit the thighs extremely hard, all while training the other largest muscles you have including your glutes and hamstrings, core, entire back, and arms. Yes, with DLs your arms must bear the entire weight while with squats the bar rests on your shoulders. DLs use more muscles than squats - especially with barbells.

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      • #18
        Additionally the 13th post of this thread by 'goneprimal' is misleading (can't figure out multi-quoting...). Those are not my words.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Althaur View Post
          If you remove the barbell from the picture, the bottom of a GOOD squat and the start of a deadlift look almost exactly the same.
          I disagree very much with this. If this is the case, you're either getting your hips way too low at the start of your deadlifts or your squats fail to reach parallel by a huge degree.
          The Champagne of Beards

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          • #20
            I do sometimes squat up and down (potentially below parallel) while gripping the bar before my lift as a means to brace myself (if you can picture that). Perhaps the bottom of this motion is what he is referring to as the "start" of the DL?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mrhtower View Post
              I do sometimes squat up and down (potentially below parallel) while gripping the bar before my lift as a means to brace myself (if you can picture that). Perhaps the bottom of this motion is what he is referring to as the "start" of the DL?
              Maybe he considers getting out of his car and walking through the parking lot into the gym as the start of the deadlift. But when the deadlift actually starts, the hips are far higher than the knees. At the bottom of the squat, they cannot be. Or it isn't actually a squat.
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #22
                I always do ass-to-grass conventional deadlifts and make sure my hips and shoulders rise at the same pace. Of course, it hurts a bit when the bar clears the knees this way.

                /sarcasm
                Yeah, my grammar sucks. Deal with it!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                  Maybe he considers getting out of his car and walking through the parking lot into the gym as the start of the deadlift. But when the deadlift actually starts, the hips are far higher than the knees. At the bottom of the squat, they cannot be. Or it isn't actually a squat.
                  lol.
                  No, yeah he's wrong.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Althaur View Post
                    If you remove the barbell from the picture, the bottom of a GOOD squat and the start of a deadlift look almost exactly the same.
                    Not at all. As RichMahogany has said above, you're either squatting far too low for the deadlift, or doing a half squat when you're squatting.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by quikky View Post
                      Not at all. As RichMahogany has said above, you're either squatting far too low for the deadlift, or doing a half squat when you're squatting.
                      Except that a half squat is fully acceptable, since the tension will be highest at that point, instead of learning the trick of going to the bottom and using the ass and calves as a trampoline to jump the weight up...
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        Except that a half squat is fully acceptable, since the tension will be highest at that point, instead of learning the trick of going to the bottom and using the ass and calves as a trampoline to jump the weight up...
                        If you don't care about either hip drive or the longevity of your knees. Half squats are bullshit.
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          If you don't care about either hip drive or the longevity of your knees. Half squats are bullshit.
                          Bullshit??? I have been doing it that way for 35 years, the same as powerlifters does, and my knees are excellent! Some friends of me preferred the deep squat trick of rebounding the weight from the bottom position with a hip replacement as a result before the age of fifty, so choose for yourselves...
                          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                          - Schopenhauer

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                            Except that a half squat is fully acceptable, since the tension will be highest at that point, instead of learning the trick of going to the bottom and using the ass and calves as a trampoline to jump the weight up...
                            Uhm, you're talking about a poorly executed ass-to-grass high bar squat. If you do a low-bar break parallel squat, there is no "ass/calves trampoline", it's a controlled movement the entire time.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                              Bullshit??? I have been doing it that way for 35 years, the same as powerlifters does, and my knees are excellent! Some friends of me preferred the deep squat trick of rebounding the weight from the bottom position with a hip replacement as a result before the age of fifty, so choose for yourselves...
                              Half squats are bullshit. Do you half bench press? Half pull-up? Half bicep curl? Why not? The same applies to squats - when you do a properly executed low bar, break parallel squat, you fully engage your quads, adductors, hamstrings, and glutes, i.e. all your major leg muscles. When you do a half squat, you're training your quads through a partial range of motion, and you're putting uneven tension on your knee joint. I bet you point your toes straight ahead too. I would highly recommend reading some books on the subject.

                              Whether your knees are fine or not after years of poor form does not change the fact that your form is poor or that poor form does not cause injury. I know someone who smoked for 35 years and is still healthy - does this prove that smoking is healthy? Anecdotal evidence does not change human physiology.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                                Maybe he considers getting out of his car and walking through the parking lot into the gym as the start of the deadlift. But when the deadlift actually starts, the hips are far higher than the knees. At the bottom of the squat, they cannot be. Or it isn't actually a squat.
                                Sigh. Why do lifting threads always seem to invite people to be smart-asses?

                                Look here. http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/up...t-deadlift.jpg

                                Aside from a slight shift forward in the center of gravity, and a slight difference in the depth, quite a bit alike.

                                Also, scroll down and read the paragraph on muscle stimulation on this. Powerlifts: The Squat vs. The Deadlift | Poliquin Article

                                So, I stand by my statement, not a huge difference in the movements. In my opinion, most people start with their hips too high for a deadlift and it turns into a straight-leg deadlift with a good stretch.

                                And for those who seem to be confused as to what the bottom of the squat and the start of a deadlift look like, see the first link.

                                Sheesh. Really people? Tell you what, I won't make smart ass comments about your ability to do squats or deadlifts until we work out together. And how about you keep your asinine comments to yourself until you strap on 70 lbs a gear and go for a 10 mile run with me? Mmmkay?
                                My Journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread74692.html

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