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  • #16
    You know what, interpret my words how you like, but what I meant was returning to the start position and then immediately beginning the next rep after fully making contact with the ground (rather than hanging around in the bottom of the lift). But hey, if you want to jump on me for using words you don't like, then fine. I mean touch, not bounce, and you obviously have to lower the weight down, not drop it or allow it to descend in an uncontrolled manner because the deadlift also includes the eccentric phase. If you perform that part of the lift properly, there's no way you're going to get a bounce or whatever. Good form prevents cheating remarkably well.

    I don't know what kind of sloppy-ass Crossfitters you've been dealing with, but at the gym I was training at, you'd definitely get corrected for doing anything other than a controlled descent and proper lift.

    I'll be sure to never, ever use "touch and go" again for clarity. Thanks for the smackdown.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

    Owly's Journal

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Owly View Post
      You know what, interpret my words how you like, but what I meant was returning to the start position and then immediately beginning the next rep after fully making contact with the ground (rather than hanging around in the bottom of the lift). But hey, if you want to jump on me for using words you don't like, then fine. I mean touch, not bounce, and you obviously have to lower the weight down, not drop it or allow it to descend in an uncontrolled manner because the deadlift also includes the eccentric phase. If you perform that part of the lift properly, there's no way you're going to get a bounce or whatever. Good form prevents cheating remarkably well.

      I don't know what kind of sloppy-ass Crossfitters you've been dealing with, but at the gym I was training at, you'd definitely get corrected for doing anything other than a controlled descent and proper lift.

      I'll be sure to never, ever use "touch and go" again for clarity. Thanks for the smackdown.
      How about the guys in the CrossFit games? It's not sloppy, it's how they're taught. But you have to put the weight down (not just touch the plates to the floor) to truly do a deadlift.

      I'm not talking about dropping it, or any aspect of the descent. If the floor doesn't have 300 pounds on it when you start lifting the bar, you didn't deadlift 300, even if the plates brush or touch the ground. DEADLIFTS are from a DEAD stop. The end.
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • #18
        Oh FFS. I put the goddamn weight down. I don't let go of the bar, but it is fully on the floor.

        Can you back the hell off already? Seriously, you're being a jerk now. You don't need to keep "shouting" DEADlift at me. I fucking get it already, and it's what I do. Sorry for using a phrase that apparently pushes your buttons.
        “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

        Owly's Journal

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Owly View Post
          Oh FFS. I put the goddamn weight down. I don't let go of the bar, but it is fully on the floor.

          Can you back the hell off already? Seriously, you're being a jerk now. You don't need to keep "shouting" DEADlift at me. I fucking get it already, and it's what I do. Sorry for using a phrase that apparently pushes your buttons.
          I don't think I'm not being a jerk. Do you let the floor take all the weight before you pull again, or do you touch and go? You're the one who said "touch and go". I just pointed out the fact that doing so is not truly a deadlift. And I'm not shouting, I was emphasizing the dead aspect of the deadlift utilizing capital letters. Glad you "get" it.
          The Champagne of Beards

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          • #20
            Love this thread. I'm mentally self-diagnosing myself and I think I've added a bit too much weight, because I think I'm doing too much hip and not enough chest on the upward movement.

            Deadlifts are on the schedule for tonight so it will be a good opportunity to see if a bit less weight leads me to better form.
            ----------
            Primal since August 2012. CW: 317.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
              I don't think I'm not being a jerk. Do you let the floor take all the weight before you pull again, or do you touch and go? You're the one who said "touch and go". I just pointed out the fact that doing so is not truly a deadlift. And I'm not shouting, I was emphasizing the dead aspect of the deadlift utilizing capital letters. Glad you "get" it.
              I'm glad you also don't think you're not being a jerk.

              I put the damn weight down. I already said that. As I said, you've made it abundantly clear that using "touch and go" is incorrect to describe what I do. How many more times do you want to tell me how to perform a deadlift? I don't cheat my lifts. No bouncing my bench, no halfways squats, no sloppy deadlifts, no leg push on a strict overhead press. Trust me, I'll never use "touch and go" to describe deadlifts ever again lest I offend some internet lifting guru somewhere.
              “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

              Owly's Journal

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              • #22
                Okay. Good for you then. Lots of people touch and go. Among these are crossfitters of all skill levels. Nothing against crossfitters or the touch-and-go deadlift (really a version of an RDL, as I said earlier), but those aren't deadlifts (except the first rep).

                Good catch on my accidental double negative. You've probably invalidated everything I've ever said in the entirety of the internets.
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #23
                  RichMahogany -- Please quit hounding Owly You ARE being a jerk for not just stopping.
                  Owly -- Please just stop responding and quit feeding RM.

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                  • #24
                    What I'm seeing form wise in the video is that your knees straighten and you lift your butt before you begin to lift your shoulders and the weight away from the ground (what we refer to as the 'stripper' move )

                    Your set up looks good but I think one more thing at the end of your set up will help. Pre-tension the bar by shifting your weight firmly into your heels and (this is kinda hard to explain with words!) shift your shoulders back so they are directly above the bar but without lifting your butt any higher. You should feel the tension in your hamstrings before you begin the lift.

                    Then make sure you move your shoulders at the same time you move your hips. You knees and hips should open at the same time.

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                    • #25
                      Does it really make that much difference if the bar isn't exactly the same height off the ground that it would be with the largest plates? I usually stack a couple of plates under mine so it's not right on the floor, but it's not nearly up as high as it would be if I used the largest plates. I'm not as tall as other people so I figure it's all kind of relative, isn't it?
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        Does it really make that much difference if the bar isn't exactly the same height off the ground that it would be with the largest plates? I usually stack a couple of plates under mine so it's not right on the floor, but it's not nearly up as high as it would be if I used the largest plates. I'm not as tall as other people so I figure it's all kind of relative, isn't it?
                        It is. I think what really matters is leg length versus arm length (where your arms meet your legs when they're hanging down at your sides). Or if you have insane scoliosis that makes it look like your arms grow longer as you lift the weight up (Lamar Gant, probably the strongest man, pound for pound, to have ever lived):


                        I read an Eric Cressey article where he says that for many of his taller athletes, he has them do sumo style because their mechanics on conventional deadlift just suck.

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                        • #27
                          Gadsie - Your knees are straightening completely before you move the bar off the floor. In other words, it's turning into a SLDL. The knees should straighten as the bar passes them. Your first rep shows this flaw, some of the later reps less so.

                          Also - Try not to let the bar move around at all when you're addressing it. Move yourself in relation to the bar. Some day you'll be pulling 500 pounds, and you're not gonna roll it around, you're going to want to move yourself to it. You're doing a good job with the "chest up" (a/k/a "show me your chest") cue before you start each pull. And your setup overall looks good to me. And you can handle a lot more weight than that. Get the knees to straighten gradually and start working your way up. I want to see you GRINDING through some HEAVY deadlifts in the next video.
                          The Champagne of Beards

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Noctiluca View Post
                            RichMahogany -- Please quit hounding Owly You ARE being a jerk for not just stopping.
                            Owly -- Please just stop responding and quit feeding RM.
                            Okay, mom. Just don't make me go to my room
                            The Champagne of Beards

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                            • #29
                              I think we get a bit @nal about minutiae. Deadlift is an intuitive and a basic motion. The army of fitness experts end up complicating basic motions in the name of value addition.
                              You do not get neat barbells with balanced weight distributions in real life. Sometimes it is a fully loaded suitcase, a sack of rice or sand, or just a rock. Just stand before the weight, balance yourself good and pick the damn thing up.
                              Few but ripe.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 70in2012 View Post
                                I think we get a bit @nal about minutiae. Deadlift is an intuitive and a basic motion. The army of fitness experts end up complicating basic motions in the name of value addition.
                                You do not get neat barbells with balanced weight distributions in real life. Sometimes it is a fully loaded suitcase, a sack of rice or sand, or just a rock. Just stand before the weight, balance yourself good and pick the damn thing up.
                                Sure. Why establish a standard against which to measure progress? Just lift it differently each time. Who cares about maximizing the efficiency so you can increase force production in an optimal manner? Who cares about using proper mechanics to avoid injury? In fact, barbells are overrated, we should all be looking for gyms with suitcases instead of iron plates and 7' bars.
                                The Champagne of Beards

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