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  • Dang Rich, you're gonna destroy the 148 class.
    In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

    This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

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    • Originally posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
      Dang Rich, you're gonna destroy the 148 class.
      Thanks, man. I just gotta stay healthy while I keep my weight moving down and the weight on the bar moving up!
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
        Thanks, Ciep! I was 156-point-something this morning. I'm really liking the program I'm using. It's churning out PR's for me like it's going out of style, even as my weight continues to slowly decrease.
        Um, you are a genetic freak! 👏👏💪💪👍👍👊

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        • Sounds good. Got my belt on order and I'm gonna do a bastardized version of 5/3/1 ....well not all that bastardized. I'm just gonna not bench and do One hand OHP instead of barbell. Haven't decided if I need to replace bench with something or just do a 3day a week Squat Dead OHP with one extra accessory lifts/pushup and dip heavy day. My gym has no spot to OHP, thats why the one arm press. I'm looking forward to trying this program. I haven't done a "program" in forever....hell I even bought and read the whole kindle version last night.
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-18-2014, 07:35 AM.

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          • 5/3/1 is an awesome program that can be adapted for nearly anyone. You could actually do heavy weighted dips as your bench replacement, I would just calculate training percentages based on your bodyweight + the additional weight. So if your 1RM is BW+100, don't take BW+90 as your training max, take 90% of BW + 100, if that makes sense.
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • Skip rope: 100 doubles, 50L, 50R, 50 high knees, 100 doubles

              One arm OHP: 70x5 (PR...only got 4 last week), 60x6, 50x8
              Kroc Rows: 60x15, 60x12, 60x10....reh! I was giving these a try in the accessory sort of high rep range....I HATE HIGH REP RANGE! These where freaking painful.
              Lateral Raises: 90x8, 90x7
              Goblet Squats: 40x10, 40x10

              6 sprints for 20 seconds on bike

              OK....I'm doing a bit more than I usually do and pushing for 3 and 5 rep PR's this week to get a valid "MAX" before starting the program. This one today was rough though. I'm pretty damn good with a rope (15-16 years as a wrestler...ya kinda gotta be), but haven't done this stuff in a while....that winded me a lot more than it should of! I really had to rest before moving into the workout.
              Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-18-2014, 01:34 PM.

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              • Originally posted by edennperez1 View Post
                Um, you are a genetic freak! 👏👏💪💪👍👍👊
                Damn straight. Especially having bench going up while weight goes down. That's straight up fucking crazy.

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                • Necky -

                  I know you want to get a good handle on where you're at and start 5/3/1 at the right weights, but if your'e going to miscalculate your starting point, make sure you miss low. Wendler says this over and over in the book, and nobody listens.

                  Even though you can't make up for heavy weights with reps in the long run, you certainly can get away with it on 5/3/1 as you ramp up to new PR's. The weights will get heavy soon enough.

                  If you're going to do 4-days/week, definitely do the deload, at least every other cycle, if not every. If you're going with a 2- or 3-day option, you can probably skip it more often than not.

                  Eden & Rev - Appreciate the too kind words from both of you. I'm in excellent company in this thread and just trying to live up to the standards set by you guys and the others who regularly post their workouts here.

                  Rev, my bench has benefitted from either 1 or both of the following (I know, bad science)

                  A: adding a third day (part of which is a second bench press, dead-stop from the rack pins) to my lifting week

                  B: moving my grip a tad wider (to pinkies on the rings).
                  The Champagne of Beards

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                  • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                    A: adding a third day (part of which is a second bench press, dead-stop from the rack pins) to my lifting week.
                    Hhhmmm, I'm having trouble picturing what this looks like. Can you describe or tell me the words to use so I can YouTube it? Thanks doll.

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                    • Today was my first real day back at the gym. I intend to hit up the gym about 3 times a week and do different cardio 3 other days, sprints, though I hate them, are a new goal for me.

                      Today however I went back to the tried and true compound lifts, because my composition and muscle mass doesn't exactly afford me the rights to start focusing on smaller muscle groups for definition, I'm far more interested in boosting my metabolism and being stronger in general. I want to start doing tire flips and farmer carries and other exercises geared more towards my being physically able to DO things as opposed to just looking muscular.

                      I'm a girl, also recovering from an injury, so don't laugh.
                      Squats 310 85#
                      Deadlifts 3x10 85#
                      Bench 3x10 30#
                      Alt. Military press/reverse row 3x10 each 30#
                      Pull ups assisted 85# 3x8

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                      • Originally posted by edennperez1 View Post
                        Hhhmmm, I'm having trouble picturing what this looks like. Can you describe or tell me the words to use so I can YouTube it? Thanks doll.
                        Sounds fancy, but it's just a bench press from the bottom instead of the top.

                        Step 1: Set the pins in the power rack to just above chest height and load the bar there.
                        Step 2: Make a complete ass of yourself wiggling underneath it.
                        Step 3: Get all tight and set up for your bench, and try to lift it.

                        You'll be able to lift a solid 10-20% less than you can on regular bench, because there's no stretch reflex, no elastic energy stored in the connective tissues or muscles, and because inertia is a dirty, dirty tramp.
                        The Champagne of Beards

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          Necky -

                          I know you want to get a good handle on where you're at and start 5/3/1 at the right weights, but if your'e going to miscalculate your starting point, make sure you miss low. Wendler says this over and over in the book, and nobody listens.

                          Even though you can't make up for heavy weights with reps in the long run, you certainly can get away with it on 5/3/1 as you ramp up to new PR's. The weights will get heavy soon enough.

                          If you're going to do 4-days/week, definitely do the deload, at least every other cycle, if not every. If you're going with a 2- or 3-day option, you can probably skip it more often than not.
                          Ya man, thanks. Yup I read that you take your max minus 10%. I'm in no hurry. I'll probably just use this calculator...looks like it automatically reduces your max by this for the calculations blackironbeast.com - 5/3/1 Calculator

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                            Ya man, thanks. Yup I read that you take your max minus 10%. I'm in no hurry. I'll probably just use this calculator...looks like it automatically reduces your max by this for the calculations blackironbeast.com - 5/3/1 Calculator
                            It does indeed. That's the best calculator there is, but it only gives you 1 week's worth of lifts. Remember to add 10/5 lbs to your training maxes every week, not your lifts.
                            The Champagne of Beards

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              Sounds fancy, but it's just a bench press from the bottom instead of the top.

                              Step 1: Set the pins in the power rack to just above chest height and load the bar there.
                              Step 2: Make a complete ass of yourself wiggling underneath it.
                              Step 3: Get all tight and set up for your bench, and try to lift it.

                              You'll be able to lift a solid 10-20% less than you can on regular bench, because there's no stretch reflex, no elastic energy stored in the connective tissues or muscles, and because inertia is a dirty, dirty tramp.
                              Ooo...this sounds good!

                              Comment


                              • I have been very busy lately and didn't read in the forums too much. That should change now as I should have more time to do so.

                                I ran over a differently minded weight training style by Christian Zippel. He has a HFT (high frequency training) with 5-7 full body routines per week. At the first look this will look like it will burn out everyone but in fact it doesn't.

                                A few outlines:

                                # every workout consists of 3 basic movements in this particular order:
                                - a full body movement: squats, front squats, overhead squats, box squats, deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, romanian deadlifts or stiff legged deadlifts
                                - a pressing movement: bench press (flat, negative or incline), overhead press (front, military, push press or behind the neck press) (preferably with barbells) or dips
                                - a pulling movement: chinups, pullups or a rowing movement (preferably barbells, bent over, yates style, t-bar, ...)
                                --> Now what you do is you go into the gym and choose one movement of each section based on how you feel. I will explain this later. I know: A full body workout 5-7 times per week sounds very hard to do.

                                # to compensate for the expected stress on your body and cns which you do is the following:
                                - you work up to a relatively heavy, but doable, weight for the certain day and see how good or bad you feel overall; if you feel good you can push it, if you feel bad you do it lighter (it's called "automatic regulation")
                                - you don't do regular style (e.g. 3 x 8, 3 x 10, 5 x 5) sets and reps with long pauses, you do cluster style training: if you want to focus on strength for the certain lift you take a higher weight and do clusters of 1 or 2 repetitions with 45-60 seconds breaks in between (goal is to do 5-10 reps overall with the certain weight); if you want to focus on muscle mass you do the certain lift for 3-6 repetitions with 30-45 seconds breaks in between (goal is to do anything between 10-30 reps overall for the lift)
                                - you never never never ever go to failure, you never ever do grind out reps; if your rep speed on the performed lift starts to slow down significantly you stop the exercise and move on; always lift with (near) perfect form
                                - you are allowed to set goals before the workout, but it is best to not to set a certain weight or repition goal; if a certain goal is set before the workout most people (not all people) tend to overdo and start to grind out reps with too much weight (for the certain day) and this is why they start to get hurt or fatigued too much because they do it with sloppy form

                                # if you have some week bodyparts you are allowed to train them after the three basic movements:
                                - let's say you have weak arms, then you are allowed to work biceps or triceps directly; if you have weak lateral shoulders, then you are allowed to work them directly; same goes with calves and so on
                                - on this movements you are allowed to use machines and all the fency stuff out there
                                - but it's the same as above: you preferably use cluster style and stop when form gets sloppy and speed goes down; you never ever go to failure

                                # why lift nearly every day?
                                - Zippel argues that a light workout makes regeneration even better, not worse (and many of the testimonials did agree with him; look at the olympic lifters who perform nearly every day)
                                - by performing lifts so often and working out hard, but not too hard, you learn to lift, your form gets better, your strength gets up and as strength growth your body will grow
                                - the HFT approach by Zippel is not only a workout style, it's more or less something like a general life style (I know it sounds hard to lift every day with work and family but the workouts don't last too long; it shouldn't take more to than 30-45 min in general to complete a workout) and we all know that if we move more we shoudl be/get healthier (if we do it the right way)

                                By following these points and as long as a ton of healthy food is consumed (your appetite will go through the roof) you should be able to work out nearly every day and your tendons and joints shouldn't start hurting as one could expect. Zippel argues that the constant stress on bones and tendons makes them stronger, not weaker, but only if you don't go over the top and stop at the right time. This sounds hard to do and in fact you have to have some experience with lifting because someone who starts to work out won't have any clue what to do or when to stop, since he doesn't know his body well enough. But I can assure you that there are many people out there (of those who have tested this typical HFT approach) who were even able to stop their tendon or joint problems which they had with regular style weight training and get stronger and way more massive!

                                Now the question is how could a typical workout look for the certain day and the day after (and so on)?
                                Let's say you had an off day on sunday and want to start the week on monday.
                                Starting the workout you do some general warm up (air squats, pushups, and so on, but not until fatigue sets in).
                                First you pick a squat or deadlift variation. Since you may have deadlifted on saturday and still feel a little bit fatigue in your posterior chain, you know that deadlift is no option for the day and you choose the front squat. You feel that you mainly want to do this lift for gaining mass on your quads today, so you start to work up in triples. You start out with an empty bar x 3, then 40 x 3, 60 x 3, 70 x 3, all feeling good. 80 x 3 is still okay, 90 x 3 is very hard and after doing 100 x 3 you are sure that you wouldn't have completed 110 x 3 with good form and proper speed. Now you take some weight (about 10-15%) off the bar and start to do clusters of 4 reps with about 30-45 seconds in between. The goal would be anything between 10-30 repititions since going for mass. Let's say you get the first 5 clusters with 4 reps with ease, the 6th cluster is very hard and on the 7th cluster your speed starts to slow down. Now you call it a day for the front squat.
                                At the second position you choose a press movement. You think that you should bench press today and feel that you should go hard because your upper body feels strong today. You start doing singles, which may look like empty bar x 1, 40 x 1, 50 x 1, 60 x 1, 70 x 1, 80 x 1, 90 x 1 and after doing 100 x 1 you are sure that 110 would have been a bad attempt and you stop. Then you take 10-15% off the bar and start doing doubles. Let's say you feel so good that you could do doubles with 90 with 45-60 seconds rest in between. First and second double look good, third double is still okay and the 4th double was so hard that you know a fifth double would have been a grinder. So you stop after the 4th double and call it a day for the bench press. You got in 8 reps overall so everything is good since your goal was anything between 5-10 reps.
                                After that your back needs some work. You do some bent over barbell rows. Since you are already a little bit fatigued you choose to work up doing reps of 4. You do 4 with empty bar, 4 with [...] and after doing 4 reps with 85 kg you know that you wouldn't have been able to lift 95 kg with proper form. 10-15% off the bar and you start doing 5s. You get in 5 clusters with 5 reps each with 85 kg with 30-45 second breaks in between until you feel getting sloppy. You stop there. 25 reps with 85 kg is in the range of 10-30 reps for mass, so everything is good.
                                Because of working out hard this day you don't feel that any other bodypart may need any work and you call it a day.
                                You should have been approximately 40-45 mins in the gym for this one, everything's fine.

                                Some days could looke like this:
                                1st day:
                                - front squats for mass (clusters of 4)
                                - bench press for strength (clusters of 2)
                                - barbell rows for mass (clusters of 5)
                                - additionally: -
                                2nd day:
                                - sumo deadlifts for strength (clusters of 1)
                                - military press for mass (clusters of 4)
                                - chinups for strengh (clusters of 2)
                                - additionally: biceps work, calves work
                                3rd day:
                                - olympic squats for strength (clusters of 2)
                                - dips for mass (clusters of 5)
                                - t-bar rows for mass (clusters of 4)
                                - additionally: triceps work
                                4th day:
                                - romanian deadlifts for mass (clusters of 6)
                                - push press for strength (clusters of 2)
                                - pullups for mass (clusters of 3)
                                - addtionally: calves work
                                5th day:
                                - squats for strength (clusters of 2)
                                - bench press for mass (clusters of 5)
                                - yates rows for mass (clusters of 6)
                                - additionally: bices work
                                6h day:
                                rest day
                                ...and so on.

                                This may sound confusing and I know that many people will call this BS but there are many testimonials out there who had good results going with this style of training. It isn't much more time consuming than doing 4 or 5 day splits, the regular workouts don't last too long, after adapting you won't feel fatigued too much and when you do you can get in a lighter workout and will be surprised that after the workout you feel better than before. And it's all but boring! By reducing your exercises to a certain pool you will progress for sure as long as you get in enough food, keep the rules in mind and work out hard!
                                I think it's a good try for a lifter who has some experience and likes to switch things up but still wants to progress and get stronger and put on mass.

                                ________________
                                Since a friend of mine had good results with it I started it lately.
                                My yesterday's workout looked like this:
                                1. Squats
                                20 x 1, 40 x 1, 50 x 1, 60 x 1, 70 x 1, 80 x 1, 90 x 1, 100 x 1, 105 x 1, 110 x 1, 115 x 1
                                100 * 5 x 2 (meaning 5 clusters of 2 reps)

                                2. Bench press on a negative bench
                                20 x 1, 40 x 1, 50 x 1, 60 x 1, 70 x 1, 80 x 1, 85 x 1, 90 x 1
                                80 * 8 x 3

                                3. Bent over rows
                                20 x 3, 40 x 3, 60 x 3, 80 x 3, 90 x 3
                                80 * 5 x 5

                                4. Triceps pushdowns
                                ________________

                                Feel free to comment on this style (negative or positive opinions are both welcome), I will keep posting my workouts!
                                Last edited by fromthehillz; 03-20-2014, 01:54 AM.

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