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  • Fasted High Intensity Resistance Training

    Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum, but definitely not new to low carb/paleo and exercise. I've been doing research for a while. A few books later, blogs, videos later and I am now following a basic slow burn program. I personally prefer to stay in ketosis because I feel like it gives me an edge with endurance in the sport I perform in (boxing).

    So under those circumstances, I have been working out in the morning on an empty stomach with the assumption that my body would mostly be running off of body fat instead, both dietary and body fat.

    Now of course I drink water, a cup of black coffee, creatine monohydrate and maybe some salt (sodium) to make sure I'm on par there.

    I have completed every exercise until failure and have continued to show extreme gains weekly, in both fat loss and strength gains.

    Post workout meal is a ton of protein and fat IMMEDIATELY after my workout.

    I usually season and prepare two, 1 pound steaks to cook right after. They are thick, fatty cuts.

    With this, I'm just trying to put two things together. I have no direct evidence at the moment to back up the conjunction of the two, but I have heard about it before and I personally don't see how it would be a problem.

    I'm totally interested in seeing what everyone here has to say about it. I have a lot of respect for opinions from this website.

    Thoughts, critiques, opinions, etc

  • #2
    You'd probably should ask Robb Wolf's podcast this question. But I pretty sure I know what they'll say. If you are depleting your glycogen doing HIT your body wants to replace that glycogen. The main sources will be from carbs or protein. I think you know your can make glucose from protein...but the process is slow and compared to carbs more expensive. If you have a really hard workout you might have a hypoglycemic crash try to replace that glycogen from meat. If it were me I'd have a couple 2 or 3 sweet potatoes right after a hard HIT.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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    • #3
      I also train HIT resistance and stay low carb. Works fantastic. Actually HIT and low carb goes together like bacon and eggs . The infrequency of training needed with HIT allows your body to refill glycogen stores sufficiently even while eating low carb. That, and lets face it ...if your doing it right you should be done in under twenty minutes and are likely burning 30g or less of carbs anyhow. Keep it up!

      As you probably know HIT is quite different from a WOD in crossfit. We are doing low reps till momentary muscle failure. Not hi rep glycogen depleting protocols.
      Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-10-2012, 08:43 AM.

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      • #4
        i am most definitely not a low carber, but i think neckhammer raises a good point. if you are truly doing short bursts of HIT training a couple days per week, low carbing is probably ok. if you are training for extended periods of time, or on a daily basis, then you might want to add some carbs to your diet.

        if you are showing "extreme gains weekly" then you're most likely a newb. those types of gains will come to an end

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        • #5
          I do great doing every kind of workout fasted. HIIT, heavy weights, boxing, runs, whatever. I'll take some BCAAs before I work out and try to eat soon after I'm done. Everyone is different though.

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          • #6
            Here's a 2009 Robb Wolf discussion on Low/High carb post workout meal.
            Post Workout Nutrition: High or Low Carb?
            Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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            • #7
              That's true, but I'm not using glucose for energy. What is the importance of BCAA's?

              What would be the benefit of the sweet potatoes after my exercise?

              Rug. I've been working out for years, but I am newb at slowburn. A "Body by Science" type routine. I was close to a crossfit-like routine before.

              I want to stay in ketosis for performance reasons, so I'd like to avoid carbs (mostly bad ones) as much as I can.

              Thanks for the input guys

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              • #8
                The main sources will be from carbs or protein

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                • #9
                  BCAA BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD
                  "How does it work? Branched-chain amino acids stimulate the building of protein in muscle and possibly reduce muscle breakdown."

                  Leucine is suppose to be good for anabolism.

                  Sweet potatoes is simply a source of carbs with out going to grains. The Glycemic Index For Sweet Potatoes | LIVESTRONG.COM
                  The way you prepare sweet potatoes makes a difference in their GI. The GI of a 150-g sweet potato, boiled with its skin for 30 minutes, is 46. That number rises to 94 if the same sweet potato is baked for 45 minutes. These dramatic differences come from the way the starches in sweet potatoes gelatinize during cooking. Foods that turn viscous, or jelly-like, in your digestive tract have a lower GI because the gelatinous substance slows the release of the nutrients in the food. Baking your sweet potatoes instead of boiling them changes the quality of their starches and transforms this root vegetable from a moderate-GI food to a high GI-food.


                  You don't say how much time you're spending during the week lifting and boxing. If it were me and I was interested in boxing performance and putting in the necessary time I'd get some post workout carbs in. If you read the link I posted to Robb Wolf, how you eat and train depends upon your end goals of health and performance and your current % of body fat.
                  Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                  • #10
                    I am not trying to jump all over you, and i definitely want to help you out. but there are some things jumping out at me that i want to point out. i'm just going to list them.

                    i'm not sure what performance advantage one could gain from being in ketosis, particularly as a boxer. just not seeing it. could you explain what you mean?

                    you should definitely read the article robb wolf did on the post workout carb debate.

                    i also can't see how a slow burn or body by science workout would be in any way beneficial to a competitive boxer. how has it helped you more than other strength training programs?

                    maybe if you gave us a little more info about your workouts, your current bodyfat percentage, etc. if you are seeing extreme gains in strength and fat loss, then you're probably going to do well in ketosis for a while. i would imagine that once your bodyfat level drops enough, you'll start to see some negativity.

                    not to bring it up again, but if you are a boxer, and you train as such, this is not HIT training. sparring sessions, roadwork, padwork, etc are not HIT workouts. i also wouldn't categorize slow burn/BBS is HIT either.

                    now to my personal opinion. i am able to do some short slow-burn cardio in a fasted state, and some brief (15-20 minute) HIT training in a fasted state. I however, do not do well with long bike rides, long boxing training sessions, or heavy weight training in a fasted state. i have to eat something an hour before i do any of those, or i will feel sick, not perform well, etc.

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                    • #11
                      I agree that a long boxing/sparring session is not what I would call HIT. You definitely have a need for "burst" strength which is sprint like....then you have your low and slow gear where your in a ready state. I was a wrestler and these sort of one on one combative sports are very much alike. I might consider carbing up a bit after weigh-ins, but I see no reason you should need to do so for training....in fact I would say that most people competing in this regard are training at a caloric deficit to make weight, so ketosis may well be optimal so that you retain lean mass and are more metabolically fit for competition. If you "feel great" doing it then I'd say stick with it. If not, then I would consider a potato to help you replenish (if your depleting and not giving enough time to recouperate)

                      On to the next thing. Slow burn and BBS are both what is called superslow protocol and IS a technique utilized and under the umbrella of HIT. Complex exercises (primarily) with little to no rest until momentary muscular failure at high intensity.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post

                        On to the next thing. Slow burn and BBS are both what is called superslow protocol and IS a technique utilized and under the umbrella of HIT. Complex exercises (primarily) with little to no rest until momentary muscular failure at high intensity.
                        interesting...i guess i hadn't looked it that way

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                          I am not trying to jump all over you, and i definitely want to help you out. but there are some things jumping out at me that i want to point out. i'm just going to list them.

                          i'm not sure what performance advantage one could gain from being in ketosis, particularly as a boxer. just not seeing it. could you explain what you mean?

                          you should definitely read the article robb wolf did on the post workout carb debate.

                          i also can't see how a slow burn or body by science workout would be in any way beneficial to a competitive boxer. how has it helped you more than other strength training programs?

                          maybe if you gave us a little more info about your workouts, your current bodyfat percentage, etc. if you are seeing extreme gains in strength and fat loss, then you're probably going to do well in ketosis for a while. i would imagine that once your bodyfat level drops enough, you'll start to see some negativity.

                          not to bring it up again, but if you are a boxer, and you train as such, this is not HIT training. sparring sessions, roadwork, padwork, etc are not HIT workouts. i also wouldn't categorize slow burn/BBS is HIT either.

                          now to my personal opinion. i am able to do some short slow-burn cardio in a fasted state, and some brief (15-20 minute) HIT training in a fasted state. I however, do not do well with long bike rides, long boxing training sessions, or heavy weight training in a fasted state. i have to eat something an hour before i do any of those, or i will feel sick, not perform well, etc.
                          No judgement taken, I totally appreciate the help and discussion.

                          Ketosis: When it comes to training in ketosis, I find my main benefit in consistent energy. I find that I have more consistent energy throughout the day and through out my workouts, no matter the intensity. Before being keto-adapted, I use to spar and when I reach a certain point, I begin to get kind of dizzy and nauseous. Same if I didn't consume enough carbs before or after a workout. Where as in ketosis, if I don't consume enough saturated fat, my body can easily and readily break down body fat for fuel, so I'm never at a loss there.

                          Slow Burn My routine before, for a few years was 3 days a week. I did a basic push/pull strength and then I switched to a high intensity circuit training consisting of cleans, muscle ups, lunges, clap push ups, etc.

                          Now, under slow burn, I have made more gains in strength, more loss in body fat and my endurance has broken the plateau. This is all in a short amount of time too. Also, since I am working out once a week, the major benefit is that I can do more sparring (skill practice) than I was able to do previously.

                          Stats My workout is every monday and consists of:
                          leg press
                          chest press
                          shoulder press
                          weighted pull up
                          seated row
                          sit ups

                          I do every exercise with slow movement until failure. My entire workout takes about 15 min.

                          My BF% is questionable. Although I don't have a direct measure. I now have a visible 6 pack where as before, with my previous routines I did not. My 1 rep max has went up on all my previous lefts when I tested them again and with measurements, I can see my mass has increased. I went from 193lbs-182lbs in one week and all the other measurements have been done after 3 weeks of this type of training.

                          I agree with you about the boxing training not really being high intensity. I don't do any commercial boxing training. In my opinion I find myself doing better with just a lot of sparring instead of the other routines.



                          Scott: Thanks for the info on BCAA's. I'm totally going to look into that.


                          Neckhammer: I use to do the burst stuff with my old routine, but I feel much faster and stronger under this training regime. It might have to do with more sparring time. I don't know. I'm trying to sort of figure out what fits where and what to tweak.

                          Thanks for all your input and discussion guys

                          What do you guys think of training frequency?

                          Would you guys prefer natural protein sources over powders?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LowCarbMaster View Post
                            Neckhammer: I use to do the burst stuff with my old routine, but I feel much faster and stronger under this training regime. It might have to do with more sparring time. I don't know. I'm trying to sort of figure out what fits where and what to tweak.

                            Actually I lift BBS so I know what you are talking about. I was speaking to the sport of boxing. It is periodic bursts of speed (combos and defense) intermixed with a lot of low to medium intensity movement and readiness. I wasnt implying that you needed burst training outside of your skill work.

                            Thanks for all your input and discussion guys

                            What do you guys think of training frequency?

                            For a HIT protocol with lots of skill work its excellent.

                            Would you guys prefer natural protein sources over powders?

                            Yes, but I'm not a protein nazi about it. My wife and I use whey when we are in a rush.

                            My answers in bold...

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                            • #15
                              Great discussion. So back to the fasted thing. Would there be any benefits to consuming protein before a workout? What do you guys think? I personally save the protein for after, when protein synthesis is highest. If BCAA's help, I'll add those with the coffee, creatine and minerals I consume before the gym.

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