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What weight kettlebell should I buy? to strengthen my back (prevent injury

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
    By increasing the weight you are also increasing the "pressure at the base of the spine". Anything that is going to be held by the hands is going to increase the "pressure at the base of the spine" the only way to relieve the "pressure at the base of the spine" is to lower the weight held in the hands.

    In addition to increasing the weight in the hands, you're also creating a dynamic movement with the swing. In doing so you are increasing the load on the total spinal column. If your client can't handle a 12KG bell, what makes you think said client is all of a sudden going to be able to handle a 16KG bell?

    Wait nope! They can't handle that either, maybe we should try a 20KG bell!! That should to the trick!
    Have you never experienced the subtleties of existence?
    All the best!

    PDJ

    The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

    Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

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    • #32
      Tormag's post helps to emphasise my above point (re: subtleties of existence), in that I don't disagree with anything in the post. Yet I have no qualms in stating unequivocally that the other position is also correct. I love cake!
      All the best!

      PDJ

      The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

      Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

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      • #33
        I like the advice of doing max reps and landing between 20-30 reps.
        I will stop by the gym tomm and do the max # reps with the 60lbs and see what I can do.
        If I can do 30+, I will buy the 70lbs one.
        I can can't even do 20, I will drop to 40-50lbs.

        I will basically buy the weight with which I can do 30.
        I think that's a safe bet.,

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        • #34
          Sounds good. BTW, I have bought 4 bells myself. Started with a 50, then a 35, also bought a 20 and a 25. Eventually I plan on buying matching bells for each weight and a 70. I do my swings with the 50, most of the other moves with the 35. The 20 and 25 were bought with my wife in mind, but she hasn't touched them. I started to the Viking Warrior snatches with the 25. Doing 20 minutes of 15 x 15 averaging 8 snatches per 15. VW is plan killer and nothing shreads fat faster.....
          I Kettlebell therefore I am.

          My Journal
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          • #35
            Originally posted by TorMag View Post
            I started to the Viking Warrior snatches with the 25. Doing 20 minutes of 15 x 15 averaging 8 snatches per 15. VW is plan killer and nothing shreads fat faster.....
            I will try the 15/15 interval, but doubt I can go 20 mins.
            That's a long time to workout at home, for me.
            Too many distractions. And too repetitive.

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            • #36
              Before I did the true VW snatches, I applied the concept to swings, and did swings doing the 15 x 15.
              I Kettlebell therefore I am.

              My Journal
              My Journal

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
                I just have to say something about this comment, it's driving me nuts. In what universe is it a good idea to "add weight" to an exercise when the client isn't getting the movement. This is how personal trainers get a bad name. By handing out bullshit advice like this.
                Guess you need to take that issue up with Pavel, Steve Cotter, Ken Blackburn, Mike Mahler, and the numerous other kettlebell instructors I've worked with, learned from, and trained with. I'm not saying they "can't handle" a weight. I would never jeopardize a client by asking them to go heavier. I'm not saying to go from a 12kg to a 32kg. I'm saying the musculature may not recognize the lighter weight and therefore by going from a 12kg to a 16kg, the client gets to feel the muscles that need to be firing in the posterior chain instead of doing a shoulder raise to correctly do a swing.

                There are always conflicting views of the "right way" to do things. Guess like everything else in life, people need to pick who and what they follow and feel is best for them.

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                • #38
                  I used a kettle bell for the first time yesterday with my conditionning, kicked my ass 20 swings with a 12kg.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by KimT View Post
                    Guess you need to take that issue up with Pavel, Steve Cotter, Ken Blackburn, Mike Mahler, and the numerous other kettlebell instructors I've worked with, learned from, and trained with. I'm not saying they "can't handle" a weight. I would never jeopardize a client by asking them to go heavier. I'm not saying to go from a 12kg to a 32kg. I'm saying the musculature may not recognize the lighter weight and therefore by going from a 12kg to a 16kg, the client gets to feel the muscles that need to be firing in the posterior chain instead of doing a shoulder raise to correctly do a swing.

                    There are always conflicting views of the "right way" to do things. Guess like everything else in life, people need to pick who and what they follow and feel is best for them.
                    Kim you have to understand that when you go into a seminar, the instructors are teaching you how to use the particular tool that they are promoting. They don't have the time to walk over to each and every person and diagnose faulty movement patterns. That's why they get you to increase the weight in the seminar. To force your body into dynamic movement. It has absolutely nothing to do with training your muscles to fire correctly. It's a short cut that they use to make sure you (The trainer) figure out the movement. So that you can promote the product and make them more money.

                    After the seminar, it's now your responsibility as the learned trainer to go and figure out how to get the client's faulty movement patterns working correctly first so that they can use the specific tool that you are showing them. If you use the same short cut that is being used in a seminar while teaching (supposedly) athletic, strong and physically fit trainers with your clients, you are mixing a recipe for disaster. Like I said in my first post, be the better trainer and learn why the client has faulty movement patterns instead of overloading the client to bypass the already apparent instability.

                    I would say the exact same thing to someone who was training with the rip trainer, TRX, bosu, swiss ball, ViPR, or pick up sticks. The value of learning why vs training for over compensation is invaluable.
                    Last edited by Iron Will; 06-28-2012, 09:29 AM.

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                    • #40
                      I used the 60 lb. KB today.
                      I was just able to do 30 on the first set.
                      I then did 4 more sets of 15 (with 1 min. of rest between each set.)
                      Maybe I could have gotten 1-2 more but the form was JUST starting to slip by 14-15.
                      What do you think?

                      I think this is a good weight and will buy the $77 one from WalMart.

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                      • #41
                        As far as the above argument, I get what she means.

                        If you try to teach someone how to sprint on a bike in 1st gear, it won't make sense.
                        The entire movement will be off-balance, off-tempo, jerky, too easy, etc.

                        If you try to get someone to bench press with just the empty bar, it won't make sense.
                        The entire movement will be off-balance, off-tempo, jerky, too easy, etc.

                        If you try to get someone to do deadlifts/KB's with only 5 lbs, it won't make sense.
                        The entire movement will be off-balance, off-tempo, jerky, too easy, etc.

                        You need the right amount of resistance to "get" the essence

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                        • #42
                          Sounds like you found your weight and I must say 60 lbs. is a pretty heavy "starting" weight! That's awesome! And thanks for the above description. Obviously you get it. Have fun swinging!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
                            As far as the above argument, I get what she means.

                            If you try to teach someone how to sprint on a bike in 1st gear, it won't make sense.
                            The entire movement will be off-balance, off-tempo, jerky, too easy, etc.

                            If you try to get someone to bench press with just the empty bar, it won't make sense.
                            The entire movement will be off-balance, off-tempo, jerky, too easy, etc.

                            If you try to get someone to do deadlifts/KB's with only 5 lbs, it won't make sense.
                            The entire movement will be off-balance, off-tempo, jerky, too easy, etc.

                            You need the right amount of resistance to "get" the essence
                            I regulary teach people how to do a bench press with just the bar. I even use nothing but a broom stick. And not just beginners either. Vetrans that are looking to increase their strength and size that need to completely deload so that I can find out where they are weak and so that I can make them stronger. I can confidently say that I do the same thing with deadlifts, squats, pull ups, chin ups, the list continues. The broom stick is actually one of my favorite tools. That's why I have people that book to see me 2 and 3 months in advance. That's why I have other trainers in my gym refer their clients to me when they are looking for fixes.

                            Learn your weakness, you will only be as strong as your weakest link. The things that you think make you look weak in the mirror because you're only using a 5 pound weight, make you so much stronger than the idiot that just walked by you and smirked because your doing some less than manly exercise.

                            Tried and true my friend.

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                            • #44
                              Iron Will, since you're adducing anecdotal evidence as a proof, whilst rubbishing the views of leaders in the field; my experience as an instructor is that many (particularly those used to weight-training) will choose a smaller kettlebell than is optimum, due to an expectation of using the weight like a dumbell. Here is where I have to encourage them to select a larger bell; achieving the intended object, without harm or injury.

                              Tried, tested and true, my friend.
                              All the best!

                              PDJ

                              The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

                              Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by pdjesson View Post
                                Iron Will, since you're adducing anecdotal evidence as a proof, whilst rubbishing the views of leaders in the field; my experience as an instructor is that many (particularly those used to weight-training) will choose a smaller kettlebell than is optimum, due to an expectation of using the weight like a dumbell. Here is where I have to encourage them to select a larger bell; achieving the intended object, without harm or injury.

                                Tried, tested and true, my friend.
                                That is a perfect way to learn from your client and understand your client better! Realize that they may not be comfortable with a larger kettle bell because they are afraid that they're going to hurt themselves. Which in turn is going to cause more tension and stress to the muscles than needed and an even higher chance of injury. The self protection mechanism is working very well for your client! Good for them for being the one to understand their own limitations

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