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Addicted joggers, bullshit Vibrams, and anti-running rant....

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  • Addicted joggers, bullshit Vibrams, and anti-running rant....

    A friend asked me about Vibram's (I assume he's looking to get into jogging), so this was my reply..... Let's hear your reaction. Yay or nay? (Please refrain from commenting on the tone/congeniality of the text, I don't care. Content & message only)


    Like I said, you're asking the wrong question. "Is hitting my face with a wrench better than hitting my face with a hammer?" Umm, sure.... balls of feet may be more natural, better, whatever, running on pavement is unnatural regardless of heel vs. ball or some sans-sneaker gimmick. Totally missing the big picture.

    As far as jogging, most long-term runners are clearly addicted, and it's just well-intentioned ignorance, at this point. I literally wince when I see these idiots jogging on pavement with both knees bandaged. Dude, you're fucking hobbling. STOP RUNNING, moron. Straight up addiction, obsessive, whatever. What appears "healthy" on the surface it's just another vice like hookers, gambling, fast money, or drugs.


  • #2
    My question is have you done, or seen any research showing that the ground on the plains of Africa when we evolved was any softer or better for running. People tell me all the time we evolved running on softer surfaces but I've never seen proof. Its really about the technique, softer running, lower impact, no heel striking. Using a barefoot technique in 'normal' shoes can help lot, using the same old heel strike in vibrams will make it even worse.

    I do some running in vibrams, I like the feel, its easier to keep good technique with a thinner sole (for me) and I found having a heel lift threw off my biomechanics.

    As for the stop running thru injuries and addiction, I think you right.
    www.back-to-primal.blogspot.com or on Facebook here

    My training journal if anyone is interested

    Be strong to be useful

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    • #3
      Does running on softer surfaces have any benefit?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Big Jim View Post
        Does running on softer surfaces have any benefit?
        Good article, thanks
        www.back-to-primal.blogspot.com or on Facebook here

        My training journal if anyone is interested

        Be strong to be useful

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        • #5
          No prob. Nothing beats facts for clearing up differences of opinion.

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          • #6
            Yea, but we weren't disagreeing on that point (type of surface to run on)

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            • #7
              I cannot speak to running or jogging in VFFs, because as a handicapped person it's not really an option...

              BUT I will say that simply using VFFs for walking has improved my feet x1000! Seriously.
              I have a nerve disease that affects my right leg/foot, and for YEARS (1997-2010) I had severe pain, swelling, and atrophy issues from wearing typical big high dollar shoes (custom fit at a shop + custom orthotics insert bullshit). All that got me was PAIN. I limped constantly, and shuffled or dragged my right foot. It had even begun to turn in. The pain from wearing conventional shoes would leave me near tears at times.

              Then one day my husbands new GSD did me a huge favor and chewed up my least painful pair of conventional shoes, and in considering my options for a new pair I ran across VFFs. This was before all the hype, I had never even heard of BTR (but I did read a Harvard study), and I had never seen another person wearing them. I decided to give them a shot because I knew that I was more comfortable at home barefoot. I only put on shoes (the conventional ones that try to push your foot into some fixed shape it's "supposed" to be according to some designer... NOT evolution) minutes before leaving the house, and took them off the second I got home... and often had to remove the right one if I was in the car due to pain. It seemed like less might be the answer for me.... and it was! Yes my feet were sore at first... but after only a week or two in them I told my husband I didn't care if he liked them or not, I was wearing them full time. Another month or so later and I chucked 90% of my conventional shoes in the trash. A couple of pair of black pumps are necessary for emergencies such as funerals... But I have worn black suede maryjane VFFs with slacks and a blouse to several other functions with no apologies or qualms.

              VFFs haven't cured my disease, but they do not increase the pain in my foot at all. In fact my foot is in better shape that it has been in nearly 15 years. It's flexible, I actually USE it to walk, and it no longer turns in (atrophy has reversed). I still have a very slight limp on bad days, but honestly... I will NEVER wear conventional shoes again.
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                I cannot speak to running or jogging in VFFs, because as a handicapped person it's not really an option...

                BUT I will say that simply using VFFs for walking has improved my feet x1000! Seriously.
                Same... I do not run or jock im them or anything. But I do love the way they feel on my feet and will continue to wear them proud. Also my girlfriend is a massage therapist (yes... that is as good as you think it is... and then some) and she gives me a good foot rub weekly. Since rocking vffs, my feet are far less tight and loosen right up with ease.

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                • #9
                  I have run on pavement in my VFF's. It lets me know if I have any imperfections in the way my feet land, so I did it often to teach myself better form. For example, I noticed that my right foot wasn't landing the way the left foot was and it (the right foot) started cramping on the top of my foot because I was tensing it up. I began focusing and trying to make my right foot land just like my left and the cramp went away. Once I had corrected the way I was running, pavement running felt awesome. It seems like pavement running with vffs requires perfect form because it's such a hard surface and you have to land perfect. At the end of a run, my feet would feel a little sore from running on such a hard surface (I ran in classics and sprints which are really thin) I try to trail run once a week, which I like way better because the ground is mostly soft and sometimes squishy (mud) heh heh.

                  I won't ever run on any surface in a pair of bulky Nikes or any other shoe ever again because I feel like the less rubber between my foot and the ground, the less chance I'm going to injure myself from the act of running.
                  Last edited by Little_Fish; 01-13-2012, 08:51 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Running is natural. Our ancestors were masters of adaptation. Modern man, maybe not so much. "Well intentioned ignorance" applies to much more than running. Exactly what activity involving exertion out of the pure enjoyment of the activity doesn't involve potential injury? Could you properly account for how it was done 12,000 years ago so that our exact evolution would keep you from being injured, sore, or "over-trained"?

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                    • #11
                      I used to run pre-Primal. Averaged about 42 mpw.

                      After going Primal I cut back and quit running. I've decided that I miss it and have started up again. This time in VFFs. It's 1000% better.

                      I enjoy running. It's fun. Doing it for enjoyment and doing it obsessively "because you have to" are two entirely different things.

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                      • #12
                        Pavement is man-made surface so you think its bad for u..
                        but running on rocky surface is the same..

                        all the people who think that running is bad for u clearly ignores clear facts..
                        look at the taraumara indians.. they run alot on any surface and they do it perfectly from young age to very old age.. no1 talks about them but its a proof that man can do it.
                        primal people love to hate running.. but all the things u know about it is bullshit.. if u do it correctly (type of surface doesnt matter at all) it doesnt hurt, the chance to injury is very very small and u will get hurt its because of things unrelated to ur body (like landing on sharp stone and things like that).
                        ur body is very much used to long runs.. way more used to it then heavy weight lifting if u ask me..
                        the tarahumara indians run and they do it without eating 250g of protein like some people here does.. and they dont eat shitload of fat like some people here does.. but still they are healthy and able to run very long distances (a marathon is not a long run.. they run hundreds of miles at a time) and they do so at very old age (50 is not old.. there are 90yo people in there who run)..
                        SUPER ATHLETES OF THE SIERRA MADRE - YouTube

                        thats a 75k race.. u can see old tarahumara women who finishes it..

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                        • #13
                          I think VFF definitely work, I myself am now running Barefoot, growing up I had numerous feet issues, the "flatfoot", achilles tendonitis and severs disease! all of which the doctors kept putting me in shoes with stiffer more supportive materials, better motion control, Newer technology!.. and any other BS they have could up with, all the while my feet were getting worse. At times I couldn't put any type of pressure on my feet for weeks at a time!

                          I've recently started running in Huaraches (materials supplied by Luna sandals - $40) hand made by myself, I love them, haven't had any foot issues since wearing these and i'm easily running up to 20km in them. Last year I was running in "minimalist" type shoes and finding it easy to knock off work and run up to 50km (compared to when I was wearing the top of the range runners (up to $400), I had knee, foot, shin injuries affecting me at every turn! and only able to knock out a half marathon). I recommend Forefoot style running over heel strike any day, and IMO VFF work (I dont use them though because i have gimp shaped feet, hence the reason I hand made my Huaraches from sheets of rubber and leather strap!).

                          And Agreed, if your injured.. stop doing what your doing.. its clearly not helping!

                          .. And i'm clearly not a doctor, just a runner who has learnt through pain, persistence and wanting to trail new gear!
                          Eat Clean | Train Mean | Live Lean

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                          • #14
                            i still do sprinting, which is running, in my VFFs on the beach. Since the beach here can be unpredictable (glass, shards of wood, shells, etc), I opt to wear the shoes.

                            And, that is nice. I enjoy it.

                            I also wear VFFs as my "go to" shoe. I would rather be barefoot, but city living means a fair bit of ouch on the sidewalks. So, i opt to wear shoes. It also keeps my feet cleaner. They are comfortable.

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                            • #15
                              Running is awesome but stupid people will injure themselves regardless of modality.

                              What I find most ironic about this thread is that someone with the nickname "OnlyBodyWeight" would go out of their way to disparage the oldest and simplest form of bodyweight training known to mankind.
                              "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they couldn't be more different."

                              "You can have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want."

                              My blog: http://www.AlKavadlo.com

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