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SuperSlow training quesiton

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  • #16
    Just some food for thought... super slow works almost entirely your slow twitch muscle... (red muscle)

    IIRC high weight low rep works both slow and fast (white and red muscle) and has been proven superior. Not to mention the added stress of the weight to your bones to encourage them to become stronger in reaction to the stress.

    If you like slow workouts more and keep with it. But I do think high weight low reps is better.

    Sorry I do not have citation maybe someone else will. (I am recalling from my old powerlifting days) Also Dr.K loves high weight low rep lifting.

    Cheers.

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    • #17
      Something I started recently that I like: I was doing BW exercises 3-4 days a week, several sets to failure, 2-3 times a day. Somedays that would mean 50+ chinups, 50+ pullups, 50+ dips, and 100+ pushups. I hit a wall after several months and couldn't increase numbers and was having recovery issues. I've now taken to doing BW once a week, super-slow movements and only 2 or 3 sets of 10 pulls/chins/dips, and 25 pushups. After a few weeks of this I added 5 pullups to my personal best and recovery not an issue.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Glockin Grok View Post
        Just some food for thought... super slow works almost entirely your slow twitch muscle... (red muscle)

        IIRC high weight low rep works both slow and fast (white and red muscle) and has been proven superior. Not to mention the added stress of the weight to your bones to encourage them to become stronger in reaction to the stress.

        High weight / low rep training also has the greatest potential for injury. Not worth the risk for someone just interested in improving health, fitness, and general strength. Powerlifters assume the risks in order to compete but health-seekers shouldn't be pointed in that direction without being given all of the facts.


        Steve

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        • #19
          you can always try slow cadence training with body weight exercises too. mark had this as a Workout of the Week sometime in the past year. i don't know that you necessarily need to try 10 second counts, but slow can do you a lot of good. you can easily try pushups, pull ups, squats, inverse rows and some ab work like reverse crunches or dragon flags (crazy hard to do slow i'd imagine). just try and do 5-10 pull ups at 5 seconds up and five seconds down, and see how sore your lats are for the next couple of days.
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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          • #20
            Originally posted by szorn View Post
            High weight / low rep training also has the greatest potential for injury. Not worth the risk for me

            Steve
            fixed
            Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

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            • #21
              Originally posted by pacificBeef View Post
              fixed
              Actually, if you go back and read the whole thing you clearly read that it's not worth the risk to HEALTHSEEKERS. Obviously you don't know what that is so allow me to explain. A HEALTHSEEKER is someone looking to improve health, fitness, and general strength. This is not the same thing as someone looking to throw weights around or injure themselves because some self-proclaiming know-it-all tells them that's the way they are to train in order to get fit. Any competent trainer would provide what the client needs, not just promote their favorite exercises or the current exercise gimmick of the year.

              Since the initial question was regarding superslow it makes no sense to provide info that has nothing to do with the question or the poster's needs.


              Steve

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              • #22
                Originally posted by szorn View Post
                Actually, if you go back and read the whole thing you clearly read that it's not worth the risk to HEALTHSEEKERS. Obviously you don't know what that is so allow me to explain. A HEALTHSEEKER is someone looking to improve health, fitness, and general strength. This is not the same thing as someone looking to throw weights around or injure themselves because some self-proclaiming know-it-all tells them that's the way they are to train in order to get fit. Any competent trainer would provide what the client needs, not just promote their favorite exercises or the current exercise gimmick of the year.

                Since the initial question was regarding superslow it makes no sense to provide info that has nothing to do with the question or the poster's needs.


                Steve
                The initial poster asked about weights vs machines. He didnt say anything about body weight training or being a "healthseeker". People can train with weights safely and people can injure themselves bodyweight training. People can deadlift 2x bodyweight no problem and people can dislocate shoulders doing parallel bar work like dips.
                The poster asked about exercising based on his personal preference which is he thinks machines are "wimpy". I told him to stick with free weights if he likes them and suggested that heavy free weights and slow cadence do not go together. Im not discouraging him. If anything, my suggestions are providing him what he needs based on his interests which would, in my mind, ensure consistency.

                A competent trainer, in my mind, would provide safe instruction to whatever activity the client engages in, whether the activity is suggested by the trainer or the client.
                Last edited by pacificBeef; 10-22-2011, 11:20 AM.
                Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by szorn View Post
                  Actually, if you go back and read the whole thing you clearly read that it's not worth the risk to HEALTHSEEKERS. Obviously you don't know what that is so allow me to explain. A HEALTHSEEKER is someone looking to improve health, fitness, and general strength. This is not the same thing as someone looking to throw weights around or injure themselves because some self-proclaiming know-it-all tells them that's the way they are to train in order to get fit. Any competent trainer would provide what the client needs, not just promote their favorite exercises or the current exercise gimmick of the year.

                  Since the initial question was regarding superslow it makes no sense to provide info that has nothing to do with the question or the poster's needs.


                  Steve
                  I really don't know where the opinion comes from that if you choose to train dynamically (particularly in things like Olympic Lifting) then you will get injured. Train sensibly and get good coaching - it's not rocket science. I mean seriously, the human body is a pretty hardy thing.
                  Sandbag Training For MMA & Combat Sports
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                  The Complete Guide To Sandbag Training
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Coach Palfrey View Post
                    Train sensibly and get good coaching - it's not rocket science.

                    There-in lies the key...get good coaching. If people were willing to pay for good coaching they probably wouldn't be on a forum asking for information. The reality is that most people refuse to invest in books and videos, so how likely are they to invest in coaching? I have watched thousands of people come through the doors of the facility where I work. Most of them use weight machines over free weights and I would have to say that at least 80% or more of them can't use the machines correctly. If they can't use something as simple as a machine correctly how can they be expected to perform Olympic lifts correctly? This doesn't include the big guys that think they are pro lifters who can be found dropping the weights because they don't have the strength to control the negative portion of the exercise. I just recently watch a guy about 19 or 20 trying to perform push-ups. He was actually pretty muscular but every time he descended his back swayed and his stomach touched the floor because his core was too weak to keep his body rigid. I really love to watch guys try to perform pull-ups by moving only 2-3 inches up and down because they don't know how to perform a full pull-up. It might as well be rocket science to many of these people and if it really was that easy or obvious there wouldn't be a need for trainers, books, or videos.


                    Steve
                    Last edited by szorn; 10-27-2011, 09:06 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pacificBeef View Post
                      The initial poster asked about weights vs machines. He didnt say anything about body weight training or being a "healthseeker". People can train with weights safely and people can injure themselves bodyweight training. People can deadlift 2x bodyweight no problem and people can dislocate shoulders doing parallel bar work like dips.
                      The poster asked about exercising based on his personal preference which is he thinks machines are "wimpy". I told him to stick with free weights if he likes them and suggested that heavy free weights and slow cadence do not go together. Im not discouraging him. If anything, my suggestions are providing him what he needs based on his interests which would, in my mind, ensure consistency.

                      A competent trainer, in my mind, would provide safe instruction to whatever activity the client engages in, whether the activity is suggested by the trainer or the client.
                      Actually SHE asked about Superslow training and using it with free weights, not whether or not she should lift with heavy weights and low reps. In order to provide a client with the proper information it's always good to know what demographic they fall in. Obviously a healthseeker will have different needs than a pro athlete, a powerlifter, a bodybuilder, etc. This is why it's not usually a good idea to say something like "this method of training is superior to some other method and will perfectly fit your needs". Without an extensive inquiry you can never know the persons needs.

                      Steve

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by szorn View Post
                        There-in lies the key...get good coaching. If people were willing to pay for good coaching they probably wouldn't be on a forum asking for information. The reality is that most people refuse to invest in books and videos, so how likely are they to invest in coaching? I have watched thousands of people come through the doors of the facility where I work. Most of them use weight machines over free weights and I would have to say that at least 80% or more of them can't use the machines correctly. If they can't use something as simple as a machine correctly how can they be expected to perform Olympic lifts correctly? This doesn't include the big guys that think they are pro lifters who can be found dropping the weights because they don't have the strength to control the negative portion of the exercise. I just recently watch a guy about 19 or 20 trying to perform push-ups. He was actually pretty muscular but every time he descended his back swayed and his stomach touched the floor because his core was too weak to keep his body rigid. I really love to watch guys try to perform pull-ups by moving only 2-3 inches up and down because they don't know how to perform a full pull-up. It might as well be rocket science to many of these people and if it really was that easy or obvious there wouldn't be a need for trainers, books, or videos.


                        Steve
                        Coaching doesn't have to cost anything - there is so much great free content available online now. It sounds as though you need to start actually correcting the people you are watching instead of just talking about how shit they are.
                        Sandbag Training For MMA & Combat Sports
                        Sandbag Training Guide on Kindle
                        The Complete Guide To Sandbag Training
                        Brute Force Sandbags
                        www.facebook.com/sandbagfitness
                        http://fitedia.com/ - Health and Fitness eBooks, video, audio and workshops

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          What the good Coach said. Coaching is key.

                          And sure, powerlifters are willing to risk injury to move weight. That doesn't mean low rep/high weight causes injury. I'm squatting and deadlifting 1.5xbw (and I'm not so small) on my way to 2xbw and have done so without injury to date. The key is form and not being stupid. In fact, the only time I tweak my back is when I do bodyweight stuff.

                          Superslow is a bodybuilding thing, it's not strength. Strength is defined as the ability to move a given weight through space. TUT isn't that. Maybe it's more effective at building muscle, maybe it isn't, but it's not a strength building scheme.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by szorn View Post
                            High weight / low rep training also has the greatest potential for injury. Not worth the risk for someone just interested in improving health, fitness, and general strength. Powerlifters assume the risks in order to compete but health-seekers shouldn't be pointed in that direction without being given all of the facts.


                            Steve
                            Fair enough... I was not knocking it. I was just trying to add to the conversation.

                            End of the day... do what you enjoy because if you enjoy it you can stick with it. (But dont use machines, I think we all can agree to that)
                            Last edited by Glockin Grok; 10-28-2011, 12:14 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Hi, I've been doing body by science lifting and enjoying it but when doing squats my lower back is tired before my legs. Did that phase pass for you?

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