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  • Carbs & Maintaining Ketosis

    So I finally achieved ketosis, and I don't want to lose it. That said, I was wondering if I ate a little higher carb on a workout day would kick me out of keto. I normally eat 20-25g carbs/day, but today I was trying to eat a little higher cal after the gym, and my meal plan for today has me at 40 carbs.
    I'm probably overthinking things (as usual), just wanted some imput.

    my carbs are coming from eggs, coconut milk, and a BAS tonight.
    --Trish (Bork)
    TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
    http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
    FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

  • #2
    why do you think you need more carbs on workout day?
    Primal Chaos
    37yo 6'5"
    6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
    current 338lbs 49" waist
    goal 240lbs 35" waist

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    • #3
      According to the Primal Blueprint ideal fat loss is 50-100g of carbs and maintenance is 100-150g with greater numbers allowed if you're doing a lot of exercise.

      Every time I see this very low carb daily goals I just think of Atkins - the base of the Primal Pyramid is Veg and Fruits not Meat.

      So may I ask why you are wanting to limit yourself to 20-25g of carbs a day for a long period of time ?
      1st June 11 to 30st Aug 11 - 36lb removed in 13 weeks
      Messed about on and off for the rest of the year

      June 2012 - Had the practice - now time to do it for real

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      • #4
        0-50 carbs a day is for people with a lot of weight to lose

        per the PB

        • 0-50 grams per day: Ketosis and I.F. (Intermittent Fasting) zone. Excellent catalyst for rapid fat loss through I.F. Not recommended for prolonged periods (except in medically supervised programs for obese or Type 2 diabetics) due to unnecessary deprivation of plant foods.

        • 50-100 grams per day: Sweet Spot for Weight Loss. Steadily drop excess body fat by minimizing insulin production. Enables 1-2 pounds per week of fat loss with satisfying, minimally restrictive meals.

        FWIW i am losing an average of 4lbs a week keeping my carbbs under 50
        Last edited by Mike Gager; 08-09-2011, 01:42 PM.
        Primal Chaos
        37yo 6'5"
        6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
        current 338lbs 49" waist
        goal 240lbs 35" waist

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd pay attention to your blood sugar readings & go from there.
          Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
            why do you think you need more carbs on workout day?
            I thought you were supposed to eat a little higher carb (carb refeed) on workout days?

            Originally posted by Solldara View Post
            So may I ask why you are wanting to limit yourself to 20-25g of carbs a day for a long period of time ?
            I'm diabetic, and extremely insulin resistant.

            Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
            I'd pay attention to your blood sugar readings & go from there.
            Ok
            --Trish (Bork)
            TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
            http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
            FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
              I thought you were supposed to eat a little higher carb (carb refeed) on workout days?

              I'm diabetic, and extremely insulin resistant.

              Ok
              Based on these answers, I wouldn't expect that you will want to add any carbs. Extra carbs are great if you're an athlete. Otherwise, they're pretty much not needed. Especially if you're diabetic.

              Gordo

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              • #8
                Very helpful. Thanks, Gordo

                My doc wants me to eat a little more (calorie-wise) on workout days, so I honestly wasn't sure if that included carbs, but I thought it might, so I'm glad I asked.
                --Trish (Bork)
                TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
                http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
                FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have a lot of weight to lose and have been in Ketosis most of the time since April. While I was not a fill blown diabetic I was pretty close which is what prompted my lifestyle change into a primal lifestyle. Both of my parents are diabetic and I did not want that for me.

                  If you do not have any already get some keto stix and use them often. I use them just about everytime I pee. I keep a thing of them a work, and one at home. The only time I don't use them is if I am out and about. You will be surprised how your ketone levels will change during the day and night.

                  What I have found works best for me is to aim to be in the light to moderate zone with the stix. After a few days to a week of testing as often as you can you will get a feel for how your body reacts to different foods and different amounts of exercise.

                  I strive to be in ketosis for about 10-14 days then I break my ketosis very gently by just having a bit of extra fruit and maybe some honey for a day. It does not take very much and I do not want to get a huge insulin or sugar spike just have enough extra carbs to break the ketosis cycle.

                  Then its right back to low carbs and ketosis for another 10-14 days. It may take a day or two after going back to low carb to get back into ketosis but that is ok. I find it works best to eat the fruit the day before a workout day as that will bounce you back into ketosis faster as it uses up all the extra carbs you ate that are being stored in your muscles.

                  By doing this I am able to maintain my desired weight loss levels. Without doing this after about 10-14 days I find I stop losing weight. Right now I am down around 75 pounds since April which puts me at around 300. I have another 50 pounds to go on my 6'5" frame.

                  By testing everyday, every time I pee I have found that on workout days I can up my carb levels by around 5-10 grams per meal and not kick myself out of Ketosis, I also find that if I am in ketosis when I work out, the morning after the workout I have the highest levels of ketones of all.
                  ************************************************** ********
                  39 years old, 6'5" tall (195cm) 300 pounds (136kg)
                  Started primal living in April 2011
                  Start Weight 375 pounds (170kg)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
                    why do you think you need more carbs on workout day?
                    Yeah, really. The heart operates more efficiently on ketone bodies.
                    β-HYDROXYBUTYRATE: THE MOST EFFICIENT FUEL Veech and colleagues discovered that administering β-hydroxybutyrate to the perfused rat heart in place of glucose increased work output but decreased oxygen consumption (35).

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                    • #11
                      • 0-50 grams per day: Ketosis and I.F. (Intermittent Fasting) zone. Excellent catalyst for rapid fat loss through I.F. Not recommended for prolonged periods (except in medically supervised programs for obese or Type 2 diabetics) due to unnecessary deprivation of plant foods.

                      • 50-100 grams per day: Sweet Spot for Weight Loss. Steadily drop excess body fat by minimizing insulin production. Enables 1-2 pounds per week of fat loss with satisfying, minimally restrictive meals.
                      Classic example of how 2 people can read the same thing and take different meanings from it.

                      If you're happy as you are good luck to you - for me personally I'm happy with my 2lb a week loss as I'm planning on doing this forever anyway - so if it takes me a bit longer while eating loads of fruit and veg that's fine by me.
                      1st June 11 to 30st Aug 11 - 36lb removed in 13 weeks
                      Messed about on and off for the rest of the year

                      June 2012 - Had the practice - now time to do it for real

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
                        I thought you were supposed to eat a little higher carb (carb refeed) on workout days?
                        A key point with that is it's meant for people that are a) already fairly lean, looking to move the "stubborn pounds" (anybody within 10-15lbs of their "ideal" weight) b) engage in strenuous exercise, at least for the purpose of the refeed day and c) don't have any issues, such as diabetes, where spikes in insulin may be undesirable, as the whole point is to have a big insulin spike.

                        So, carry on as you are and don't worry about BIG carb-ups. I hope it's not irresponsible of me to say that mild carb-ups with low GI starch is probably okay for you if you feel you want to enjoy a sweet potato once in a blue. If it happens to fall on a workout day so be it. But please note, I don't have diabetes and have not done enough reading on whether that's something you'd want to do AT ALL. I trust you know that better than me.
                        I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                        • #13
                          what iniQuity said. I eat more carbs (starches) on lifting days, but 1) I'm not talking huge quantities and 2) I"m lifting pretty heavy. I may push up against the 150-200 g on those days. I'd like to lose a little more weight, but losing weight and adding strength are difficult to achieve at the same time (not impossible, but difficult). I prefer easy, so I'll keep doing it this way.

                          Also, if you're diabetic, please don't take any advice off an internet board without running it by a physician. There are plenty of endocrinologists who are primal friendly, find one if you can, but I was a liberal arts major and shouldn't be offering any medical advice!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wally_B_Sr View Post
                            *snip*
                            I strive to be in ketosis for about 10-14 days then I break my ketosis very gently by just having a bit of extra fruit and maybe some honey for a day. It does not take very much and I do not want to get a huge insulin or sugar spike just have enough extra carbs to break the ketosis cycle.

                            Then its right back to low carbs and ketosis for another 10-14 days. It may take a day or two after going back to low carb to get back into ketosis but that is ok. I find it works best to eat the fruit the day before a workout day as that will bounce you back into ketosis faster as it uses up all the extra carbs you ate that are being stored in your muscles.

                            By doing this I am able to maintain my desired weight loss levels. Without doing this after about 10-14 days I find I stop losing weight. Right now I am down around 75 pounds since April which puts me at around 300. I have another 50 pounds to go on my 6'5" frame.

                            *snip*
                            This is a really interesting way of describing carb refeeds, and it actually makes sense to me. I'm not sure why the other threads never really clicked for me before.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jfreaksho View Post
                              This is a really interesting way of describing carb refeeds, and it actually makes sense to me. I'm not sure why the other threads never really clicked for me before.
                              That's not a carb refeed/leptin reset. To do a carb refeed, we're talking 300+ g of carbs.

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