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  • Originally posted by Leida View Post
    No, you choose to think that I am miserable and that my posts are filled with ache. You dismiss anything to the contrary and keep hanging on the negative. I think you might want to put me on the ignore list or something, 'cause you are obviously upset and stuff.
    +1. You have always come across to me as being a very positive person, Leida. I hope you stay that way.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

    Comment


    • I think you come off both positively and negatively, like any normal person, Leida. I appreciate your openmindedness for trying different things. I just wish you gave chocotaco's suggestion of taking a year off "dieting" in general to heart
      My chocolatey Primal journey

      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

      Comment


      • I think some of the disconnect is that you use a really "female" way to relate about your diet. I have a very lean male friend who experiments and has talks about diet, but he'd never call it a flaw or envy someone over a food based issue. He is very clinical. He is obssessive and has the body to show for it, but he is never going to express any level of self hate over failure.

        I think online, we tend to be either more arrogant or self depracating than in real life. There are days I get annoyed at myself for food decisions and days I'm glad I ate the salted caramel... I hope that in real life, everyone has the capacity to enjoy food and eat in a relaxed manner that enjoys the food and nourishes the body.

        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Leida View Post
          A few points:

          -if you weigh more, but have the same BF% as someone who weigh less, you are ahead in the game, because that means you carry less fat. Where looks are concerned it's BF% that counts, not sheer mass.
          .
          Not sure if this is what you meant to say but it doesn't make sense to me.

          if you weigh 100 lbs and have 12% bodyfat you have 12 lbs of fat.
          if you weigh 200 lbs and have 12% bodyfat you have 24 lbs of fat

          Either of these people may or may not look better than the other person depending on their height, muscle and fat distribution. Even two people with the same % bodyfat can look extremely different. I am tall and slim - I have a friend who is quite short but muscular. We have the same % body fat. Some women carry their bodyfat on their hips, some on their tummy and some all over.

          Also your body shape and look can change without your bodyfat % changing much if at all - this often happens as people age and hormone levels change.

          You are what you are - do what you can to improve yourself then accept yourself.

          Cheers
          J

          Comment


          • I'm sorry I'm a few days late on the psychoanalysis party, but I think I might have some interesting light to shed ... or not.
            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            I do believe that macros impact hunger and craving a huge deal, but there are some ingrained psychological dependencies that cannot be overcome by the best nutrition. I have tried every ration and approach under the sun, from <25 g carb a day to 70-80% carb and basically no fat. Everything in between, save for vegan versions.

            And yet, I have never in my life, for a single day or hour in a day stopped craving fruit. Everything else I dropped and stayed away from for months and even years with no consequences: coffee, pastries, bread, grains, legumes, dairy, nuts & nut butters... you name it, I lived without it. I do experience a fleeting desire to get a candies or a cookies if they are in the house, but it is fleeting and easy to shrug away on most occasions. I can make them, serve and stash without problems. I have over-ate before of the normal domino foods: cheese and nuts, and in my pre-whole foods, post-pregnancy life I normally had a small bag of cherry twizzers every afternoon and a pastry or two with supper. Having dessert after supper was a norm through my entire life, normally tea with my grandma's jam. I don't overeat any of it now, and rarely make jam. When I have jam, I do want jam & will likely overeat it once I dig into the jar. Fruit is different. I have a gut-wrenching feeling every night I cut the fruit plate and cannot eat fruit, and when I eat fruit, the serving size of ~ 1 cup which is recommended doze a day is interpreted by my desire-stimulated brain as far too small. I am drawn to it, even if I hide it in the pantry. And, again, desire keeps telling me 'not enough, too small', I would eat about 3 to 4 cups of fruit (2 to 3 fruit the size of a medium apple). Save for jam, there is no other food that impacts me that way. It is a problem of desire compounded with emotional response (vacations/summer association), conditioning throughout childhood (shortage and no variety of fruit then abundance in season), ingrained, deep-seated belief that fruit is not a bad food (there is always this doubt that maybe there is benefit to eating fruit save for pleasure), and sugar/serotonin pleasure centers stimulation response.

            The longest I went without fruit was 40 days. And I did not stop wanting it. Not really. I eventually got deeply depressed and dove into the fruit bowl.
            Every word of this is true for me. When I increase morning protein enough, all cravings have disappeared, except for tart fruits. And if I have a little, I must have a LOT. Fruit in moderation causes a severe problem for me (and the fruit bingeing that occurs leads to other cravings coming back). I also don't think it's wise (especially for me) to eat fruit year-round in this latitude, and, like Leida, fruit also causes me physical problems. I get dizzy and headache-y in a strange way, but when I test my blood sugar, it's not that bad. I can binge on candy and not get the same kind of dizziness that *feels* like it should be high b.s., but isn't.

            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            I am thinking it is some sort of a fructose problem, because it looks like the problems are triggered by fruits and vegetables containing over 5 g of fructose (I was watching it when I was eliminating sugar on Whole 30) & I had shakes reaction 2 or 3 times after consistently eating sugars and fruit - the shakes were caused by higher consumption of sugar (say fruit every day and some chocolates/icing this weekend when decorating gingerbread houses, or after eating gelato in September after having a fruit for breakfast). But the trouble is it makes me feel unwell, but I can't stop at one cup. I think a healthy person should be able to, no? Just have half an apple, sigh contentedly and not feel like the world is an unfair and dark place 'cause I can't have two more?

            I eat for the most part organic fruit (apples) or fruit that needs peeling (grapefruits and such). Since I get the same reaction from sweet potatoes that generally are not a 'dirty crop', I think it is fructose. I also break out after consuming like 2 tbsp of honey.
            See above for my similar experiences.

            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            Oh, I agree with you, but so far I just got high sugar reading once, and they did a fasting test after that, and it came negative. So that was the end of it as far as the traditional medicine is concerned. That is actually the main reason I want to speak to a holistic practitioner/acupuncturist. I doubt I have anything life-threatening or serious, but if there is some imbalance, I think it might be helpful. (Shrug) for now I am trying to stick to minimizing sweets consumption the best I can without going bananas (pardon the pun!)
            And again.

            It sounds like we have similar things going on in this arena. The only difference is that I know without a doubt that my issues have nothing to do with self-discipline or character flaws because I have seen the unmistakable switching off of the cravings when things are physiologically balanced.

            Right now, I"m experiencing cravings again, despite my breakfast still being protein & fat heavy (I'm talking around a pound of fish & meat every morning), after nearly a year of none at all. I'm trying to figure out the cause, but the difference between now and before is that I know there is a physical cause, and I have no part in the self-blame game like I used to.

            When you've lived with a rational mind and an irrational craving for as long as I have - that is, the knowledge of what makes you feel good and the complete inability to act accordingly - you can understand how it gets to the point of believing you're just a person with a deep character flaw. But now I know better.

            For me, I've never had body image disorders, never had any sort of mental illness or anything related. I feel no need whatsoever for a psychologist because this isn't about behavior nearly so much as biochemistry. I'll keep listening to the Krazy neurosurgeon & Mark & anyone else who is actually talking about the nutrition-physical connections and making sense, and one day, God willing, I'll see the end of these bizarre, irrational, self-destructive cravings.

            Let's keep talking about it.

            Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
            I do appreciate where you are coming from. I suspect that you might be better off following a CW-style female body-building regimen eating little and often and treating your body to a lot more homeostasis.
            For whatever it's worth, eating little and often feeds my self-destructive irrational binge eating behavior. My best success comes when I focus hard on fueling myself with a massive breakfast and a nominal dinner. As I mentioned, I'm struggling again, even with this, but if I drop this for even one day, it's DISASTER. This is now a non-negotiable for me.
            5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
            Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
            Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
            Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
            ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

            Comment


            • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
              Yeah... you know, I don't feel like a failure when I eat a piece of junkfood that makes me bloat and stalls weightloss. If you are having issues with your diet making you ill, you really need to disengage the emotional connection with food. I wonder if part of why fruit makes you feel badly is because you are stressed because you ate fruit.
              ...
              Leida, can you ever just enjoy food? Like dig into an awesome meal, free from nagging doubts? I can honestly tell you that until a few months ago, I could not just eat without the mental "this will make fat" calculator. In the past few months, I've been set free from that. Feels good and a lot of foods that used to "make me sick" don't anymore.
              ...
              Leida, I hope at some point you either acheive success in getting to a low body fat% OR find happiness with your slim body and health and find a wy to enjoy food.
              I do feel like a failure when I eat something that makes me feel horrible. Briefly. But less so as the truth that it is the result of a bizarre misdirected food craving slowly seeps into my heart. I'm emphatic, though, that this has nothing to do with the Oprah-emotional-eating thing everyone thinks it does. I've never been an emotional eater, yet I have all the problems so-called emotional eaters have. I think it's either coincidence or merely correlation that most overeaters are also emotional eaters.

              I don't ever really enjoy meals like I used to, because right now i'm at a place where I get ill effects from eating anything other than meat, fish, & fat. It's absurd. But it's my reality, just as you cannot eat shellfish without ill (an understatement, I know!) effects. If I eat something else, I feel terrible, or know I will soon, and yeah, it detracts from enjoyment. The food I eat is very tasty, and I do enjoy it, but I don't always enjoy it. So I don't know that that means there is any disorder here, just the reality of a very limited diet, and the fact that it sucks. I think that in Leida, if she has a body image problem, it may be coincidence or correlation with her cravings & any possible issue with food enjoyment, and not necessarily cause/effect.

              I agree with your good wishes for her!
              5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
              Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
              Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
              Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
              ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

              Comment


              • Consider having some lab work done to find out if you are estrogen dominant. If you are over 35, you probably are. Stress will make it worse, so don't do IF or restrict a ton, or do a lot of cardio. Make sure you eat enough. I've found milk helpful because of the calcium; also, coconut oil. Progesterone, not estrogen, etc............ Also, to absorb the calcium in dairy you need vitamin D, so you need to either go outside, or take vit D3 supplements.

                Comment


                • Referring to cravings, or to thighs? I am actually very low in estrogen, but the P:E ratio is too E-heavy. I've had both problems since I was a teenager.
                  5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                  Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                  Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                  Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                  ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                  Comment


                  • So far, I continue to gain weigh, up to 132 lbs almost (131.7 lbs) from 127.4 lbs on Saturday despite staying active and not overeating. I had a few pieces of home made candy (pate de fruit and brittle) every day, but I have a hard time believing that I managed 10,000+ calories of overeating from those extra sweets. All other food was stellar. I had been active every day, maintaining lifting regimen, skiing, swimming and playing. I do not know if any of it is muscle gains. My lifting targets muscle gain, but I doubt I can gain much muscle in 5 days and 2 or 3 lifting sessions either.

                    I am gonna be maintaining whole foods style cleanliness of food (basically did it yesterday with the exception of 1 and 1/2 of a Belgian chocolate candy: 2 eggs+ zucchini/mushrooms fried on a coat of drippings + 1 tbsp of almond butter; ~ 1.5 cup of soup from leftover pork, black beans, kale and yellow peppers w turkey bone broth + 1 tbsp of almond butter for lunch; Russian potato salad w home made mayo + 2 Broiled Paleo Meatballs (1/4 cup each before cooking) + 1/4 cup coconut milk + 1 apple + ~ 12 cashews and wallnuts), try to buy only fruit that is fast to serve to my folks and replace the family supply of fruit from tempting apples & grapefruits with oranges/mandarin oranges.

                    I am not sure if I will be weighing myself till the end of January or ever, I really do not know if I want to know any more the rate of my degradation. Or if it is degradation. In fact, I am very lost at the moment and don't know what's right and what's wrong and why my body is acting the way it is acting. The only thing I know at the moment is that I really like my current fitness regimen. It feels just right. I feel muscle work, I feel the recovery bounce back. And I did not hurt my wrist for the 3 max/failure sessions in the row. I am also quite impressed by my ability to do 7 sets of TGU with 10 lbs KB during the support work. But it feels pointless whenever i look in the mirror.

                    In all likelihood by the end of January I will end up where I have started 3+ years back, at 150-155 lbs and all my journey through the nutritional and fitness wonderland will yield no result apart from me knowing how to perform the 5 basic lifts at a squatting rack and a bunch of other interesting ways to challenge the muscle to no useful end. I also have "knowledge" of murky and contradictory nutritional dogmas, a handful of 'super' foods Primal/Paleo style, like coconut oil, and various afflictions that I never knew existed, like 'leaky gut' and 'fructose mal-absorption'.

                    I still have no answers. None at all. To use Matrix allusion, right now my truth is that there is no spoon.
                    Last edited by Leida; 12-27-2012, 08:15 AM.
                    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                    Comment


                    • Leida, I occasionally gain up to 6lb in a day, and it is *not* fat gain. It's usually a very well distributed water weight, across my whole leg especially, but also some in the gut & arm. No noticeable pitting, but all the measurements go up, and it usually takes at least a week to go away. For me, I clearly have some food intolerance I don't yet know about. I know I can avoid it entirely by eating only fish, meat, & fat, but I also know that's not a long-term solution.

                      Just a few days of sweet potatoes & berries will make me gain at least 3lb of water weight, and that's mild compared to when it's big like I just described.
                      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                      Comment


                      • Yes, that would have been a good explanation if my weight was steady and then I suddenly put in a few pounds on after eating a sweet potato or a pickle. I understand this process very well, since I have been through it numerous times on the Ultimate and 4-Hour body.

                        I think it is something different though, in the past month or two since I stopped the last Ultimate Diet attempt, I went from 122 lbs to 132 lbs steadily. I ate well, was not counting and not limiting tubers and fruit. It seems to keep accumulating.

                        I think maybe it is some sort of fat re-acquisition that will not stop until the body gets back to the post-pregnancy weight that it remembers so fondly\. Basically I am almost sure that it will make me hungry till I get there. It appears that 30 something years of sitting around 120-125 pounds is easily abandoned after the body gets a taste for a couple of years of a higher weight.

                        It's kindda interesting, but still a bit sad.
                        Last edited by Leida; 12-27-2012, 10:34 AM.
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                        Comment


                        • You talked about rapid gain in the last few days that is clearly not a fat gain, as you illustrated with the calories you posted would be necessary for that to have happened.

                          When *I* eat tubers & fruit, I swell and eventually gain fat, and then swell some more. Any rapid gains are almost certainly not fat, even if the general 10lb trend you've experienced is also partly fat.

                          HOpe you find some solutions!
                          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                          Comment


                          • Thank you.

                            Are you trying to reduce fructose as well? That is my working hypothesis for now. Do you react like this to all tubers? I think that turnips, jikama and radishes are Okay with me, and I am not sure about carrots and beets (I think they are Okay, but I have never eaten them in a quantity comparable to potatoes and sweet potatoes).
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                            Comment


                            • RIght now, I"m finding that anything other than meat, fish, & fat makes me swell & bloat. I don't know why. My thigh goes up and down an inch within a week, just as one example, if I eat carbs in any small amount for a few days, then eliminate again. I don't know if it's fructose, FODMAPs, nightshades, fruits, vegetables, fibers, or WHAT. I've tried eliminating those one at a time, in groups, and all at once, and the only thing that works is all at once. I hope to hold a baseline of no water or bloating for a few months, then add just sweet potatoes. Then if that works, add just well-cooked greens. If that works, add some berries, maybe. Then I'll make a plan from there.
                              5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                              Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                              Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                              Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                              ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                              Comment


                              • I have been experiencing the same digestion unrest after I did the VLC stretch, and trying the potato really made for a bad experience afterwards. Did you increased intake of carbohydrates as well after a near zero carb intake? If so, it will eventually pass, well, at least for me. (Thanks goodness!)
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                                Comment

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