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E/C -- how bad is it?

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  • E/C -- how bad is it?

    I'm sure this is horrible, and I'll catch a lot of flack, but I did an ephedrine/caffeine stack a couple months ago and got absolutely shredded. It not only boosts your metabolism, but it inhibits your appetite. I did this stack before I started researching more about eating Primal and taking it seriously. Now I am more focused on doing this for the lifestyle benefits -- not just for asthetic purposes.

    I'm sure there is a lot of evidence pointing out that excessive caffeine is bad -- almost common sense. Does anyone drink coffee or caffeinated tea? Or is that something to be avoided.

    Cheers,

    Zach

  • #2
    Coffee is fine unless it gives you problems.
    Ancestral Health Info

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    • #3
      I also drink coffee pretty much every day. I don't "jones" for it or get headaches on the days that I skip it though, so I figure it's alright.

      From what little I've heard, I'd stay away from ephedrine. It's banned in the U.S. now, right?

      Comment


      • #4
        It's not banned in the US. I personally know one person a man in his 30's who had a massive, life-altering stroke after takin a single dose of cold medicine that had ephedrine in it. His docs said the ephedrine gave him the stroke. I also have a friend who went to the ER a week ago with serious atrial fibrulation and angina...he was taking an anti-histamine with ephedrine in it and his docs said that's what caused it for him.

        I would never knowingly take something with ephedrine in it, myself.
        I'm a quitter...but I'm back now.

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        • #5
          I experience strong symptoms from caffeine. I wouldn't call them problems though, because I enjoy every angle of the experience. But in moderation, of course. I'll drink heavily one day and light the next to avoid becoming too dependent.

          Ephedrine scares me, too.
          Crohn's, doing SCD

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          • #6
            So I pulled some abstracts for another conversation thread regarding caffeine:
            Obesity Journal: High Caffeine Intake was associated with weight loss and leptin suppression in women.
            Intl. Journal of Obesity Related to Metabolic Discord: Caffeine loading correlates to increased weight loss in obese subjects (Old science, from 1994, so should be well known.)
            Intl. Journal of Obesity: A supplement with 100mg of caffeine as a major effective ingredient shown effective to increase fat loss, lower glucose, fasting insulin, leptin, triglycerides and more.

            The last one deals with e/c together, possibly an unnamed e/c stack. Read the abstract, if you want the paper, drop me a pm and I'll see if I can track it down. Apparently it's effective, and nothing dramatic found wrt negatives.
            My Fitday public journal.
            Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
            Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
            Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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            • #7
              A small percentage of people have hypersensitivity to ephedrine. I obviously do not, but I did notice that the excessive amount of caffeine the stack calls for made me feel like crap when I missed a dose. I was taking 600mg of caffeine daily while on the stack. If I do it again, I'll cut down on the caffeine and see how that feels.

              Ephedrine is found in many asthma medications that you can get at the pharmacy. They check your license and monitor how much you purchase -- too much and you'll get flagged as a meth cooker.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by davem View Post
                Those were great links, thank you. I was taking 60mg of ephedrine (with alkaloids of course) and 600mg of caffeine -- which is a lot IMO.

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                • #9
                  I guess bottom line is that taking ephedrine is a risk.. you may or may not experience side effects. In my eyes it's an unnecessary risk as I am able to get all the health benefits I need by just going primal, moving around, and lifting heavy things occasionally. YMMV.
                  5-24-10 ................ 5-24-11
                  Weight: 281.......... Weight: 203

                  10-11-10
                  Weight: 259
                  Total Cholesterol: 243
                  LDL: 188
                  HDL: 40
                  Trig: 96

                  2-18-11
                  Weight: 228
                  Total Cholesterol: 239
                  LDL: 183 (calc), 138 (actual)
                  HDL: 46
                  Trig: 49

                  6-23-11
                  Weight: 197.2
                  Total Cholesterol: 225
                  LDL: 161 (calc), 120 (actual)
                  HDL: 56
                  Trig: 38

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                  • #10
                    Double post!
                    Last edited by Kvalhion; 07-06-2011, 12:11 PM.
                    5-24-10 ................ 5-24-11
                    Weight: 281.......... Weight: 203

                    10-11-10
                    Weight: 259
                    Total Cholesterol: 243
                    LDL: 188
                    HDL: 40
                    Trig: 96

                    2-18-11
                    Weight: 228
                    Total Cholesterol: 239
                    LDL: 183 (calc), 138 (actual)
                    HDL: 46
                    Trig: 49

                    6-23-11
                    Weight: 197.2
                    Total Cholesterol: 225
                    LDL: 161 (calc), 120 (actual)
                    HDL: 56
                    Trig: 38

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That is a good point. I took it because I wanted to cut weight fast and keep up with my martial arts training. It definitely made the difference -- my performance output was inhuman, but then again, it doesn't help out in the long run becuase I stopped taking it and went through that "coming down" phase. I'm not going to use it again, I'd rather improve my eating to 100% primal (ultimate goal) and see how my energy levels look from there!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Drama View Post
                        Those were great links, thank you. I was taking 60mg of ephedrine (with alkaloids of course) and 600mg of caffeine -- which is a lot IMO.
                        Yeah, too much caffeine if I am recalling the documents properly they were using between .9 - 2mg/kg, which if you were to say weight 180lb, that's 81.8kg, or a dose of 74mg - 164mg. 600mg is probably way too much. I'm sure you'll find some benefit (realistically) by cutting the ephedrine, and reducing the caffeine.

                        Thoughts?
                        My Fitday public journal.
                        Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
                        Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
                        Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by davem View Post
                          Yeah, too much caffeine if I am recalling the documents properly they were using between .9 - 2mg/kg, which if you were to say weight 180lb, that's 81.8kg, or a dose of 74mg - 164mg. 600mg is probably way too much. I'm sure you'll find some benefit (realistically) by cutting the ephedrine, and reducing the caffeine.

                          Thoughts?
                          Ephedrine is a bronchiodilater -- which is nice for athletic purposes, and it also massively reduces appetite which made loosing weight super fast and easy. Common sense tells me that it can't be healthy.

                          Lower dosages of caffeine would be nice for the metabolic boost, but I wonder if it is that serious? I get a great workout from MMA, and eating healthy more frequently should do the trick. It is just a matter of committing to the primal eating style. I do it well most of the time, but I'll go through phases where I eat junk food.

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                          • #14
                            I'd be more concerned with long-term effects on the body's adrenals.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by astronmr20 View Post
                              I'd be more concerned with long-term effects on the body's adrenals.
                              I was wondering at that, so I searched for any research connecting caffeine and adrenals, and found none. Are you privvy to any research that's relevant?
                              My Fitday public journal.
                              Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
                              Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
                              Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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