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gassed out in workouts. losing weight AND strength.

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  • gassed out in workouts. losing weight AND strength.

    Sorry for the long post, but I need some help/advice.

    I've been working out HIIT since about October and eating primal since early March. The workouts were amazing from the beginning and I gained a ton of strength, flexibility and endurance quickly. I didn't lose much weight until I began PB.

    I started at 6'1" and 215 pounds. Since beginning the Primal Blueprint I've lost 30 pounds, down to 185 on the scale as of this morning. I'm really happy with my weight loss results, but I feel like I'm also losing a lot of the strength I built up.

    I'm frequently worn out during workouts and I can't go as heavy as I used to.

    My day usually looks like this:

    Wake up around 8 a.m. and have a shake consisting of 1 scoop whey, 1 cup mixed berries and 1 cup organic whole milk yogurt.

    Hit the gym at 9 a.m. and do my WOD. Drink about 32 ounces of water during/after.

    Lunch is usually 3 extra large organic eggs and 3 slices of uncured, nitrate free bacon. Sometimes I'll eat that AND have a large salad. Usually spinach and romaine with chicken and veggies. Sometimes some mozzarella cheese on there.

    During the day I drink green tea (sweetened w/ splenda) or water.

    Dinner is typically a sizeable portion of meat (grilled salmon or flank steak are staples) and plenty of green veggies (asparagus, brussel sprouts, broccoli, spinach, etc.).

    Sometimes at night I'll have a piece of dark chocolate. I occasionally indulge in a slice of cheesecake.
    Our workouts are 3 days a week and are broken down into push, pull and legs.

    Typically we do three sets of couplets at 30/15/7 reps. Then we do some kind of timed endurance stuff at the end. For example, a pull day may consist of this:

    Band pulls 30/15/7 reps
    Overhead kettlebell swings 30/15/7 reps

    Renegade rows 30/15/7 reps
    Ring rows 30/15/7 reps

    Standing rows 30/15/7 reps
    Jump pulls 30/15/7 reps

    Followed by something like 3 rounds of:
    2 min aerdyne tabata (15 sec. fast/15 sec. easy)
    1 min sledge hammer swings
    pull-ups to fail
    Are the workouts too long? Am I doing the wrong kind of workouts? Am I not eating enough? Am I eating the wrong things to fuel my workouts?

    My goal is to lose 15 more pounds and get myself down to 170, but I don't want to do it at the price of my physical strength and endurance. Is there a middle ground for me?

    Your help is appreciated!

  • #2
    I’m seeing a total lack of useful carbs.

    I used to eat almost identically to how you’re eating (minus smoothies and whey protein) what I mean is, I used to eat mostly green fibrous veggies.

    My workouts began to suffer as well and I felt like I was making little progress in them. Especially on my strength workouts.

    I suggest adding starches to your workout days. Try this for a month and see how it goes. I’d go slightly lower on fat on the days you add starch as well.

    The type of workouts you’re doing are depleting the glycogen stores in your muscles so you need to feed them carbs, don’t worry about weight gain I highly doubt it will happen.

    Also, where is the heavy lifting?? You’re doing a ton of high-rep endurance work I’m not seeing any true resistance training at all.

    I’d dedicate at least ONE training session to lifting heavy. Squats, dead-lifts, over head presses, keep it traditional.

    Shit, hop on the rings and do dips at least!

    Best of luck …

    EDIT: To me it looks like you’re working out a tad too much, I wouldn’t do tabatas 3 days a week, especially if you’re doing more than one round in a single session. Is there a reason behind the number of reps? 30/15/7 I’ve never heard of such a scheme…
    Last edited by iniQuity; 05-12-2011, 09:49 AM.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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    • #3
      Start eating some sweet potatoes. With your workout schedule the extra carbs will likely just go to repleting glycogen (and not promote fat accumulation). I had some of these issues not too long after I started PB, and they went away when I added sweet potatoes (as well as rice or regular potatoes occasionally). It also got rid of my muscle cramps at night, fwiw.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        I see iniQuity beat me to it
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
          I’m seeing a total lack of useful carbs.
          I suggest adding starches to your workout days. Try this for a month and see how it goes. I’d go slightly lower on fat on the days you add starch as well.


          Also, where is the heavy lifting?? You’re doing a ton of high-rep endurance work I’m not seeing any true resistance training at all.

          I’d dedicate at least ONE training session to lifting heavy. Squats, dead-lifts, over head presses, keep it traditional.
          i agree big time about the carbs and lifting heavy.

          also, are you really after the specific weight, or are you more interested in a body fat percentage. 170 at 6'1" is pretty lean. you may have to sacrifice some muscle mass to reach that...forget the scale and focus on body fat instead.

          agree
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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          • #6
            Yeah I think trying to do this much activity (or honestly ANY strenuous exercise) on low carbs is an exercise in futility.

            I don’t know how zero carb people do it. I’m talking about lifting routines with the occasional cardio workout … not like just running or something which you can fuel with fat.
            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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            • #7
              Start lifting, you are not really lifting.
              What are you truly after with your weight anyhow? I'm 6'1" too, 200lb, and I'd be happy to end up still at 200lb, just want about 10 lb worth of body recomp fat -> muscle. Once I got to 185 that's when I decided to focus on building muscle. 170 is too skinny for a tall guy (my opinion).
              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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              • #8
                Hard to know what is "too skinny" for a given height without knowing frame size - there's quite a large variation in lean body mass (skeleton and connective tissue weight sans muscle) from one person to the next. Take a look at Shane Mosely from his weigh in over the weekend - he's 5'10" and 146 pounds, but doesn't exactly look like he needs more muscle. But he has small 6 inch wrists - i.e. a small frame.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Thanks for your help, everyone.

                  When do you think the ideal time to add tubers would be? Post-workout meal? Pre-workout? How about rice? How frequently can I eat rice and continue weight loss and when is the optimal time to eat it?

                  As far as my workouts, I definitely agree that I need to do some heavy days. My training situation is such where the coach puts a workout up on the board and we just go in and do it, three workouts per week. But it's sort of become monotonous, since each week the exercises are just a variation of the same few moves. I feel like some of my stagnation could come from that. Maybe it's time to look for a new gym?

                  As for my goal weight. 170 is just an estimation of where I need to be to look how I want to look. I'm built on a pretty lanky frame. Long legs, long arms, thin ankles and wrists, but pretty wide shoulders. In the eight years since I graduated high school I've gone from 140 to nearly 220. The 170-175 range is where I was happiest with my body in terms of composition.

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                  • #10
                    For me personally it doesn't seem to matter. I started eating them sometimes with dinner and things kind of took care of themselves
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tom Dunphy View Post
                      Thanks for your help, everyone.

                      When do you think the ideal time to add tubers would be? Post-workout meal? Pre-workout? How about rice? How frequently can I eat rice and continue weight loss and when is the optimal time to eat it?

                      As far as my workouts, I definitely agree that I need to do some heavy days. My training situation is such where the coach puts a workout up on the board and we just go in and do it, three workouts per week. But it's sort of become monotonous, since each week the exercises are just a variation of the same few moves. I feel like some of my stagnation could come from that. Maybe it's time to look for a new gym?

                      As for my goal weight. 170 is just an estimation of where I need to be to look how I want to look. I'm built on a pretty lanky frame. Long legs, long arms, thin ankles and wrists, but pretty wide shoulders. In the eight years since I graduated high school I've gone from 140 to nearly 220. The 170-175 range is where I was happiest with my body in terms of composition.
                      Aim for tubers post-workout.
                      But don't aim to be perfect, in occassions you will crave for tubers pre-workout or even in non training days, if this situation presents, then listen to your body and eat them.
                      If you aim for a specific or perfection, bets are you will fail. The body works in cycles just as the seasons, follow your animal instincs.
                      Also is good to make or attend to some feasting from time to time, something like a all you can eat place, to reset leptin.
                      Rephrasing the famous Socrates quote: "All I know is that I know nothing" and about that fact, I am still not so sure.

                      Greetings! from Jorge from Venezuela.

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                      • #12
                        Diedelser got it right, don’t concern yourself too much with exact meal times/portions/etc … I eat starch almost daily now (for about 2-3 weeks) and have NOT experienced any weight gain (and I don’t do as much as you do, so theoretically I burn less calories) but I do strength train more often than you (so I may burn more calories at rest due to muscle mass, but I’m a pretty small guy so I doubt it)

                        I would eat starch post workout mostly, aim for at least 2-3 potatoes, or 2-3 cups of rice. Sweet potatoes are the most nutritious of the bunch and have less impact on insulin, but I like white potatoes and white rice as well so I eat a bit of everything without thinking too much about it.

                        Is your gym a Crossfit gym? (probably not, I think they lift more at CF gyms) I wouldn’t up and switch it, but ask your trainer for some strength routines.

                        Visit stronglifts.com and look into their 5x5 program, that, or Mark Rippetoe’s Starting Strength program, or the 5/3/1 program I’m not too familiar with. Basically, anything that has you lifting heavy and in a rep scheme of 3-5.

                        I still do plenty of high-rep work, but I like to keep my heavy lifting brief and heavy. If you can put up more than 10 reps it’s too light.
                        I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                        • #13
                          Agreed with everyone else - and as far as weight goes, Steve Nash is a good example of 170s on a taller guy, but the typical quarterback at 6'1" or running back will weigh around 200. I used to think Steve Nash would be a good example to work from since I'm thin-framed and naturally kind of lean, but putting on a little bit of shoulder and thigh muscle changed that idea real quick.
                          Weight class athletes - well, you're not one, and those numbers are a good 10 lb lighter than their walking around weight. And those guys in the picture could stand to build more muscle, and I'm sure they would if they weren't in a weight class. NOTE: I know nothing about UFC and all of that, just that weigh-ins are not the right benchmark to go with for those guys. I would look at athletes in a non-weight class sport with a similar build for better guidelines.
                          If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                          • #14
                            tfarney is right. you need to assume the guy who weighs in at 170 is walking around at 185-190. Some guys cut 20 lbs or more. Then, they rehydrate after they weigh in.

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                            • #15
                              Also, our concept of "normal" weight is based upon data from a sick, Western population. If we look at hunter gatherers, their average BMI tends to be around 19-21. For a 6'1" male that means around 150 lbs. And around a quarter are under 18.5, which would be under 140 lbs. So if our normative data came from HG populations (whom we around here at least believe to be healthier than modern Westerners), even 170 lbs. would be technically "overweight" for a 6'1" male.
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