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Starting Strength and Paleo diet.

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  • Starting Strength and Paleo diet.

    Hi guys,

    What do you think about this? I want to gain strength, I'm in the first month of SS (after two months of SL 5X5). I deloaded once until now to fix form.

    Mark Rippetoe suggests eating a lot, like 5000 calories a day at least. I don't feel GOMAD would be a good thing for me, tho. (Yes, INDTFP) My stomach get's easily irritated with as little as 500 ml of milk per day. Yogurt is another story (plenty of it here in Bulgaria), because of it's much lower lactose content.

    Bottom line: has anyone done SS on a Paleo diet, while eating plenty (5000 calories a day or more) and succeeded?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Surely it can't be 5000kcal for everyone. You'd just want to be eating what your body needs, plus a bit more for gaining.

    Anyway, how do you think you'd be with 500mL of heavy cream a day?
    "Thanks to the combination of meat, calcium-rich leaf foods, and a vigorous life, the early hunter-gatherers were robust, with strong skeletons, jaws, and teeth." - Harold McGee, On Food And Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen

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    • #3
      Of course it's not 5000 for everyone, but it's a good general guideline. I basically need something like 3000 cals/day and topping it off with a whole lot more can make the difference between stalling and progressing. As of now, I'm struggling with a mere 77.5 kg squat (bodyweight is 72 kg) and I could attribute this to my low calorie intake.

      I think I'd be fine with cream. 500 mL sounds a lot, but I gotta try it. Thanks.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Alestorm View Post
        Of course it's not 5000 for everyone, but it's a good general guideline. I basically need something like 3000 cals/day and topping it off with a whole lot more can make the difference between stalling and progressing. As of now, I'm struggling with a mere 77.5 kg squat (bodyweight is 72 kg) and I could attribute this to my low calorie intake.

        I think I'd be fine with cream. 500 mL sounds a lot, but I gotta try it. Thanks.
        I'm fairly sure that there's a limit to how much muscle protein can be produced each day by the body, so I'm fairly sure a 2000kcal surplus would be far too much for that (as in, maybe 500kcal would go into muscle synthesis, but the rest would just be stored as fat or wasted). But if you gained a lot of muscle or trained a lot every day, and your body required 4500kcal to maintain weight, then I could see 5000kcal being required.
        "Thanks to the combination of meat, calcium-rich leaf foods, and a vigorous life, the early hunter-gatherers were robust, with strong skeletons, jaws, and teeth." - Harold McGee, On Food And Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen

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        • #5
          I agree to some extent with the above. Yet, I'm trying to follow Rippetoe's advice on the issue how much eating should be done during the program.

          However, have you tried it yourself - progressive weight lifting and paleo? I am mostly interested in the answer of this question.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Alestorm View Post
            However, have you tried it yourself - progressive weight lifting and paleo? I am mostly interested in the answer of this question.
            I'm only trying it now, so I'd have to get back to you. But I've done weight lifting before and made gains with just a caloric surplus of about 500kcal per day. I'm pretty keen on measuring precisely what I've eaten, but if you always underestimate your food intake, maybe aiming for 5000kcal would work.
            "Thanks to the combination of meat, calcium-rich leaf foods, and a vigorous life, the early hunter-gatherers were robust, with strong skeletons, jaws, and teeth." - Harold McGee, On Food And Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen

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            • #7
              Yeah, I'm gonna try it, starting next week. Probably I'll open a log, too. What kind of program are you on?

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              • #8
                If your plateauing its probably not your diet, but your routine. Switch it up.

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                • #9
                  I'm pretty much doing starting strength (sorry but I can't help myself from personalizing stuff. 5x3 though and all the barbell lifts). I eat 2 pounds of meat or 1 pound and a dozen eggs a day, add sour cream / heavy cream to meals wherever possible, and drink a liter of milk with whey on workout days, and eat 150-200g carbs potatoes/white rice in my post workout meal. Until recently I was also eating ~100g peanutbutter a day and some dried fruit. Sooo yeah I would advise eating a lot of cals from non-dairy stuff aswell as the dairy.
                  500g meat (1200 cals), 12 eggs (840 cals), 100g nuts (500 cals), liter of milk (600 cals), mashed potatoes or broth cooked rice (600-1000 cals), 100g dried fruit (300 cals) would be in the ballpark of 4000-5000 cals. If I had more money I would probably make up some of my cals from cheese and greek yoghurt. I don't think replacing milk with other dairy sources will hurt your gains either if you have a sufficient protein and calorie intake without it (a glass here and there would probably be easier though).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NeoBerserker View Post
                    If your plateauing its probably not your diet, but your routine. Switch it up.
                    You can't really know this at all, many people go to 1.5x bodyweight or above on lifts doing starting strength and eating loads.

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                    • #11
                      @NeoBerserker: you could be right, but it's my own fault - my diet sucks now.

                      @Pandadude, that looks awesome. While I don't like eating much starch food (get bloated easily, can't eat two hours after and such), the meal plan you suggest looks sweet. Do you manage to get some fruit and vegetables, too? I suppose it's kinda hard.

                      I am thinking of something like your suggestion, but replace some of the meat with tuna.

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                      • #12
                        I'd add in 6 eggs per day then keep uping it until you get to a dozen.

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                        • #13
                          Yes, I ate nut butters with raw carrots, ground beef often used in stews/chillis with various vegetables, throw onions/garlic/spinach/fresh herbs in with my scrambled eggs etc. I would get bored not eating veggies, I do it more for variety and volume wise its probably more of a 40/60 or 50/50 veggies/meats rather than the recommendations of Mark which are more in line with a bunch of veggies with fat on and meat on the side (aka more veggies than meat volume wise).

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                          • #14
                            I would suggest you listen to Robb Wolf's podcasts (from the beginning) as this question has been asked and answered several times before.

                            Starting strength or any other linear progression program is all about recovery. 5000 calories might be neccessary if you are 6 foot and 130lbs and the general idea is to eat whatever it takes to get strong, and then worry about maintaining that strength and losing the fat later on.

                            It may not be the actual reccommendation but it is pretty common for someone doing SS to eat thousands of cals worth of double cheeseburgers, ice cream, pizza, PB&J sandwiches and all you can eat buffets. ...plus a gallon of milk a day! This certainly works, I know - I've done it. Yeah I got kind've strong. Yeah, I got fat. And I felt like shit!

                            One problem with this (one of many) is that your digestion is going to be terrible. Half of what you eat probably won't even touch the sides.

                            If I could do it all again, I would eat three or four times a day. I'd aim for 1.5g protein per pound of bodyweight. I'd eat meat and eggs, some green veg, and lots of squash and sweet potatoes (mostly immediately PWO if possible), and some butter, cream and coconut milk.

                            I'd keep it simple and focus on quality and quantity, and tweak and add more depending on recovery.

                            Feedback on this is almost instant. If you aren't eating enough, (and sleeping enough) you just won't be able to lift more next session.

                            Again, listen through Robb Wolf's answers on this. I think there is a podcast database now where you can find which podcasts feature which topics.

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                            • #15
                              Late on this thread - yes, you can go paleo and progressive strength. This is how I workout and eat. You will get stronger, but you won't put on a ton of weight, which is ok, because a large amount of that weight will be fat.
                              "Suffer no guilt yee who wield this in the name of Crom"
                              Quote on the Father's Sword

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