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  • Insomnia + working out

    For some as-yet-undiagnosed reason, I am sleeping like crap.

    I go to bed (as I have for the last several months) between 8:45 and 9:30, very rarely do I stay up past 10. As in, once every couple months. I will without fail wake up at either 11 pm, or 2:30-3 AM, and I will be awake til roughly 4 am, at which point I sleep like the proverbial baby, until my alarm goes off at 5:30 AM. This has been happening since, oh, February?

    (Been through the gamut of whys-no caffeine after 10 am, no TV, no computer, no late-evening exercise<--though I have tried it to see if THAT would help, with no luck, tried melatonin, valerian, calms forte. Can't put my finger on the cause. Sometimes I wake with a hypoglycemic feeling that food helps, but I can't figure out why I would all the sudden be having trouble with that....can't get into ketosis either for some reason.) Eating more dinner doesn't seem to affect it at all, which is why I'm really puzzled! Slight increase in stress over the last month, but the insomnia started prior to that so

    Anyway.

    I've been continuing lift as usual, walking, LHT 3xweek, sprints, etc. Knowing that GH production and muscle repair happens during sleep, and I'm running on minimal sleep, am I 'doing it wrong'?

    Obviously I'm trying to fix the sleep issue ASAP, and am trying blue blocker glasses tonight to see if they help, but I don't want to break muscle down and not repair it properly. Any thoughts?

    Thanks guys!
    Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

    ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

  • #2
    is "calms forte" a magnesium supp? if not, everybody says mag helps.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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    • #3
      Calms forte is a homeopathic supp; I can't tell you whats in it exactly off the top of my head.

      I do take magnesium via mag oil and also MCHA as well-not sure of the mg 'dosage' in the oil but it's the Ancient Minerals brand, and I probably use a couple tsp a day?
      Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

      ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

      Comment


      • #4
        If it's more than 600mg then that argument could be "out" but if it's not, I'd take mag citrate and shoot for at least 600mg an hour or so before bed. I personally don't have problems with sleep, except that I'm a "light" sleeper and sounds/light can easily wake me up. This isn't the case on magnesium, not as much at least, or I'm able to fall asleep faster if I am woken up.

        I know people here that safely take almost twice that amount. Athletes too take magnesium, it's very important, and it's not just to help improve sleep quality.
        I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, it appears that my mag oil provides somewhere around 125 mgs of elemental mag per 1/4 tsp, so that would be roughly 1 full gram of elemental mag assuming I absorb all the oil, which I don't. Even at 30% absorbtion, which I think is an overly low guesstimate, I'd be gettiing 300 mgs elemental mag, whereas citrate provides apprx 11% by mass, so 600*.11= 66 mgs elemental mag....I've been using the mag oil for about three weeks or so? I slather it on from stem to stern and back again (arms, legs, tummy, back, butt, if I can reach it, it gets it), so I'm not overestimating my usage amount by too much either.

          I'm also taking vitamin D x 10,000 iu /day (can't absorb mag without D), but it's not helping the sleep issue at all.

          I'm mostly wondering if being awake during the period of time when GH and such are secreted, yet continuing to lift will cause more harm than good?

          Any other thoughts? Thanks iniQuity!
          Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

          ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

          Comment


          • #6
            Why not just stop taking all sups for a week and see what happens?

            In the past I've used ZMA with mixed results. Good for trippy dreams, but if I cant sleep - I cant sleep.

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            • #7
              Wasn't there just an article about waking up in the middle of the night being pretty normal, or at least used to be normal?

              Comment


              • #8
                I tried taking 400 mg mag citrate one hour before bed, but it made me a bit buzzy for some reason.

                I sleep through the night when I take one multimineral and 200 mg mag citrate. Have no idea why, unless the small amount of Calcium is helping?

                The multimineral has:
                125 mg Magnesium
                125 mg Calcium
                50 mg Phosphorus
                55 mcg Iodine
                25 mcg Selenium
                4 mg Zinc
                25 mg Potassium
                and some assorted micronutrients
                Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
                Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
                Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jfreaksho View Post
                  Wasn't there just an article about waking up in the middle of the night being pretty normal, or at least used to be normal?
                  yep, as long as you don't feel dog shit tired the next day I wouldn't worry about your sleep habits. The generic "you need 8 hours!!!" line is more of an average. Like your body temp should be 98.6 but it could naturally be lower or higher. Some people function perfectly well on less sleep. I think there was a documentary along these lines at some point but I can't recall the name.
                  "One can only be a perfect physician for oneself alone. " ~ Luigi Cornaro

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, but that sort of thing refers to maybe an hour of 'awake' not, 4-6. I'm awake more between 9 and 6 than I am asleep most nights. This was also just written about two weeks ago.

                    I've done all the obvious things-added/removed supps, exercise, food, blackout curtains, etc, to no avail. It's now affecting my insulin response-eg causing insulin resistance and it's kicked me out of ketosis and causing blood sugar swings, so I'm more concerned with whether continuing to do the things that help insulin resistance, eg high intensity exercise are a bad idea in light of decreased sleep.

                    When someone who two months ago was able to IF daily for 16-18 hours can't make it 4 hours without getting the shakes (on the same foods, mind you) somethings wrong. The only thing that has changed is going from sitting to standing at work.

                    If it were as simple as just waking and then falling asleep, to wake rested in the AM, I'd not give it a second thought. When it affects all parameters of life, though- I'm a single mom, so I can't just go 'take a nap' when there's dinner/laundry/baths/bills to be done-its a problem.

                    Honestly, I got more sleep when I was simultaneously going through a divorce/job change/move/parents major illness followed by death AND getting up with a nursing baby.

                    I dunno. Guess it'll sort itself out sooner or later.
                    Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

                    ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      oops. Xposted with Redwire.

                      Although the body temp thing...gotta beg to differ with you on that...you shouldn't run anymore than .5 degree +/- 98.6 contrary to what modern medicine says, anything more than that indicates a problem with your homeostasis, usually with thyroid usuage, if not production AND usage. BUT that's another story...
                      Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

                      ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                        I tried taking 400 mg mag citrate one hour before bed, but it made me a bit buzzy for some reason.

                        I sleep through the night when I take one multimineral and 200 mg mag citrate. Have no idea why, unless the small amount of Calcium is helping?

                        The multimineral has:
                        125 mg Magnesium
                        125 mg Calcium
                        50 mg Phosphorus
                        55 mcg Iodine
                        25 mcg Selenium
                        4 mg Zinc
                        25 mg Potassium
                        and some assorted micronutrients
                        Is that biomins by thorne Dragonfly? It looks awfully similar, but I'll have to double check my bottle when I get home...
                        Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

                        ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Eklecktika View Post
                          I've done all the obvious things-added/removed supps, exercise, food, blackout curtains, etc, to no avail. It's now affecting my insulin response-eg causing insulin resistance and it's kicked me out of ketosis and causing blood sugar swings.

                          When someone who two months ago was able to IF daily for 16-18 hours can't make it 4 hours without getting the shakes (on the same foods, mind you) somethings wrong.

                          Is there a specific reason your in ketosis? I'm of the opinion that ketosis is largely unsustainable unless your managing to eat whole buffalo(or similar beasts) regularly. That said, I've never actually been in ketosis because I've never seen the need. I'm no expert but you might try adding a plethora of carbs and eat some right before you plan to go to bed.
                          "One can only be a perfect physician for oneself alone. " ~ Luigi Cornaro

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eklecktika View Post
                            oops. Xposted with Redwire.

                            Although the body temp thing...gotta beg to differ with you on that...you shouldn't run anymore than .5 degree +/- 98.6 contrary to what modern medicine says, anything more than that indicates a problem with your homeostasis, usually with thyroid usuage, if not production AND usage. BUT that's another story...
                            The exact temperature at which you run homeostasis is genetically determined(at least partially) and varies from person to person. So yes, if you run .5 degrees in either direction from that genetically determined point then there may be an issue. But there are healthy people whose homeostasis doesn't occur exactly at 98.6
                            Last edited by Red Wire; 03-30-2011, 03:47 PM.
                            "One can only be a perfect physician for oneself alone. " ~ Luigi Cornaro

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Red Wire View Post
                              Is there a specific reason your in ketosis? I'm of the opinion that ketosis is largely unsustainable unless your managing to eat whole buffalo(or similar beasts) regularly. That said, I've never actually been in ketosis because I've never seen the need. I'm no expert but you might try adding a plethora of carbs and eat some right before you plan to go to bed.
                              Ketosis doesn't require large amounts of land mammal, just plenty of fat and little carbs. Ketosis is highly sustainable. At least, when you can get some zzzs at night. Reduces TbG and TPo antibodies, among other things, which is pertinent for me. Never mind that I feel best when ketoadapted.

                              Some of us don't have much choice if we want to drop fat and maintain lean body mass. There's a gazillion threads on it.
                              Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

                              ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

                              Comment

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