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  • Building Muscle & Weightlifting

    Hi all -

    I've been doing the "primal" thing for about a week and a half and so far really enjoy the way I feel every day. I had a couple days of mild "carb flu" I guess you'd call it when I first started which was basically just trouble sleeping and nothing else. A few days later I did have a day where I was in a mental fog and lethargic all day as some describe, but it may have been from St. Patrick's Day partying the day before. It didn't feel like any hangover I've ever had before, but, whatever.

    In any case, I'd like to put on some muscle mass. For several years I was more or less rather committed to bulking up. I went from 6' tall, 170 lbs. and sort of skinny up to 205# and around 13% body fat eating lots of protein and a fair amount of carbs. I haven't lifted weight in about 6 months but for some reason, haven't lost a whole "ton" of muscle, but I can definitely tell that I'm smaller than I used to be. Right now I probably weigh around 190#.

    In any case, I'd like to pack on some more muscle, not a ton, just some more, quickly and safely and then I'll probably transition to body weight exercises to maintain.

    When I stopped lifting about 6 months ago my workouts usually consisted of a 3 day split, usually a push/pull/leg day. I emphasized the "big lifts" like squats, deadlifts, weighted good mornings bench presses and so on. I never did any of the olympic powerlifting exercises basically because I was afraid of injuring myself if I had the form wrong and no one was there to show me proper form.

    I've always liked the "simpler and faster is better" mentality of working out and I would do 1 set of each exercise to failure. If I could do a set of 12 reps of one exercise then I would raise my weight. Most of my workouts took about 30 minutes. Some took 45, but that was more because I had to spend a lot of time loading and unloading weights from the barbells more than anything.

    Anyways, I'm ready to head back to the gym and put on some muscle again. I've been reading a lot of Mark's fitness articles and he doesn't really talk about weight lifting so much as "functional" movements.

    I do see some descriptions of doing 5x5 (5 sets of 5 reps) breakdowns, supersetting and so on. I was unfamiliar before this of any 5x5 advocates and always thought one needed a minimum of 8 reps in a set.

    Can anyone suggest a 2 day split workout? I'm skeptical of doing deadlifts or squats at each workout twice in a week because from experience I expect to still have some muscle soreness and I typically would avoid exercising muscles that were sore.

    I'm willing to experiment and try new things.

    Thanks for any help.

  • #2
    Broski, definitely go with Mark Riptoes starting strength. Its the 5x5 principle. Get in the gym, and lift big heavy shit for 5-6 reps, and watch the muscle grow like some kind of magic growing-thingy. But for reals, stick with squats, bench, overhead press, and deadlifts, lift that shit heavy and eat some meat.
    Do sprints and some bodyweight stuff as well!
    Feral.

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    • #3
      My deadlift has gone up 130 lb in about 4 months of lifting using Rippetoe - up to a point (a much stronger point than most people ever get!) it works. But it is frickin hard at times. Then again, if you aren't willing to work hard and be sore you shouldn't bother with barbell training at all.
      If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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      • #4
        I am looking at increasing my muscle mass and losing the last bit of body fat as well. I am 19, 181cm or about 6 foot tall, around 78kg or 170 pounds and I would say I have a 'soccer' build (I have a relatively small upper body and waist but more muscular legs). I had my bodyfat measured about 2 months ago and was 14.5%. My goal would be to get to between 80-85kg and 10% bodyfat. I have only been eating primally for about a month and have been doing stronglifts/starting strength and crossfit every now and then. I have made some good strength gains in the last 6 months and I can now squat, deadlift, bench around bw and I am able to do most of the primal bw exercises to a few reps short of what mark has specified. The only issue is I still have a real lack of definition.
        Can anyone give me any pointers?
        PS: I will admit that I still eat cheese and yoghurt a couple days a week and I suffice to fast food temptations more than I would like to admit, but I eat healthier and am fitter than most of my friends, however many of them have much better definition/body fat levels than myself and I feel like I am maybe missing something.

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        • #5
          Buffalo Chip : If you want strength you need to look into 5 rep programs, I'm doing Starting Strength (Rippetoe's program) you could also look at Strong Lifts, those are the two basic ones. Once you can squat 1.5 times your own body weight, then you can look into more specialized programs.

          robbie1512 : If you want definition it's all diet. Cut the dairy, and cut the crap. Check into IFing, Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
          I didn't like the rules you gave me, so I made some of my own.

          Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. - Mark Rippetoe

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          • #6
            Robbie: maybe you want to start a new thread with this question? It is sort of unrelated, and chances are that people won't find it here. At <10% bodyfat you might get into bodybuilding territory. You can try VLC according to the PB but if this does not work you might need to follow one of their routines
            http://thorfalk.wordpress.com

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            • #7
              Buffalo Chip: go with Rip, and the basic stuff. 3x5 or 5x5 is generally seen as a good compromise for strength and bulk. You can also try 3x8 for more bulk and less strength (same basic lifts). Some also swear by 20-rep squatting to start off as a nice body stressor, but haven't tried this myself.
              Also, have a look through the links here, esp Chad's stuff Random articles found on the web | Thor Falk
              http://thorfalk.wordpress.com

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              • #8
                Rip, stronglifts and wendler.

                I'm trying Wendler now and actually really liking it. I understand it's a bit of a slow progression, but I like the rep variations, weight changes, etc. As small as they are, I do feel like it changes it up a bit.

                My deadlift is up a ton since starting stronglifts last September and then Wendler the past 3 weeks.

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                • #9
                  If you want to bulk up, lower the reps and up the weight.
                  My weak attempt at a journal:http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread35809.html

                  M/30y/190#

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Monty View Post
                    If you want to bulk up, lower the reps and up the weight.
                    that's not entirely true, I've been crazy strong without a lot of bulk before. So the two don't necessarily go hand in hand
                    I didn't like the rules you gave me, so I made some of my own.

                    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. - Mark Rippetoe

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                    • #11
                      I have been lifting starting strength for 3 or 4 months whilst eating primal. I also do some fight training, swimming and a lot of walking. Even with that I have gained 3 kg of muscle and not gained any bodyfat (may have even lost an inch around waist). I eat probably around 3000 - 4000 calories a day though I fast a bit too. I don't force myself to eat, but after a workout I am always hungry (thats how I know I've been working hard). I don't bother with protein shakes either.

                      Previously I gained muscle a lot quicker on the CW diet but half or more of it was fat. I put on over 10 inches around the waist. On the PB I still have an outline of my sixpack. Soon I may break the PBs I set at 90kg whilst weighing less than 80kg.
                      A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by federkeil View Post
                        that's not entirely true, I've been crazy strong without a lot of bulk before. So the two don't necessarily go hand in hand

                        The OP wants to add muscle. More weight and low reps is the simplest way to put it. He mentioned nothing about strength. A side effect of lifting heavy weights is getting strong.
                        My weak attempt at a journal:http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread35809.html

                        M/30y/190#

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thor Falk View Post
                          You can also try 3x8 for more bulk and less strength (same basic lifts).
                          Originally posted by Monty View Post
                          If you want to bulk up, lower the reps and up the weight.
                          what is going on in this here advice thread
                          You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

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                          • #14
                            Shouldn't this be on a bodybuilding forum somewhere?
                            Sandbag Training For MMA & Combat Sports
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                            www.facebook.com/sandbagfitness
                            http://fitedia.com/ - Health and Fitness eBooks, video, audio and workshops

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                            • #15
                              I'd pick up Wendler's 5/3/1 ebook, or just read his articles. Starting Strength is fine, but I don't know if they have a two-day per week template. 5/3/1 does. It also combines low rep heavy strength lifts with assistance exercises at higher reps to add mass. IMO the best and easiest program out there. Do a search for the Excel spreadsheet.

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