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  • #16
    Before finding primal I tried the John Beradi approach (see my previous post) and found myself getting leaner to the point people were making lots of comments about how much I had lost - 28 lbs +. At the time I was still preoccupied with the bodybuilding look??? Most of this was fat but I was losing muscle as I wasn't training regularly.

    However since going primal and starting training, predominantly strength, my weight loss has been small but I am gaining muscle. I put this down to muscle memory as I have previously been very large following a bodybuilding diet and training routine.

    I have now got my mind set around looking lean, far more healthier, and I am aiming for the type of figures arthurb is displaying (well done by the way arthur).

    I am the go to guy in my gym for training and diet advice due to my previous results though newcomers just look at me now and think what does he know he is not "big". The first requirement is consistency as chickenbacksides results display which is where I agree with arthurb, everything that chickenbackside said in their post is all you need.

    Yodiewan - go on put up the pictures. I am approaching everything from the opposite direction (losing fat) and need a reason to put up some pictures (After being very physically large I have still to get my head around it being ok to display to the world I am not that big and muscular any more). Maybe we can get something going to encourage each other and help other????

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    • #17
      Originally posted by chickenbackside View Post
      Definitely yes. That's my experience.

      I went from 120kg to 64kg by dieting and running. Waist line went from 40 inches to 28 inches.

      Then I started to do squats, dead lifts, military presses, bench presses, pull ups and dips in the gym. Rep range is 6-10. Within 6 months, my weight went up to 72kg, while my waist remained at 28 inches. Visually, it is very obvious that I packed on quite a bit of muscle and became leaner, as its confirmed by everyone who knows me, even those who see me often.

      I do notice that it takes more to satisfy my appetite now as compared with before weight training. But still, I don't weigh or count anything. I eat when I'm hungry (usually once a day) and I don't stop eating til I'm full. Thats it. I think the trick to not gaining fat is simply to eat primally. I estimate my macronutrient ratio to be 60-80% fat, 20-30% protein and less than 10% carbs (from veggies and coconut only).

      So in my experience, muscle gain without fat gain = lift really heavy 3 times a week (always fasted) + move slow as often as possible + eat primal foods to satiety + good sleep + plenty of sun + positive outlook in life (low stress).
      Wow, good going CB!
      Have you posted a before, after and then after again pics?
      Last edited by Misabi; 12-12-2010, 04:02 PM.
      If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

      Originally posted by tfarny
      If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

      Comment


      • #18
        Nope. I didn't consciously take records. But I dug up a couple.

        Dieting down:




        3 months ago

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        • #19
          Oh, my! (fanning herself)
          Rebecca

          Right click here to watch me lose 22.5 pounds of body fat and gain 5.5 pounds of muscle in only 5 months right before your eyes in this cool morphing video!

          Click the banner below to visit my blog:

          sigpic

          Feb 2009 - 158 pounds - 43.6% body fat
          Aug 2013 - 138 pounds - 34.3% body fat
          So far, lost 19.8 pounds of body fat and gained 1.8 pounds of lean mass
          Goal - 136 pounds - 30% body fat
          Still need to lose 6.4 more pounds of body fat and gain 4.2 more pounds of lean mass

          Comment


          • #20
            Haha, thanks RSL.

            But you know what, honestly, I am still having trouble accepting compliments about the way I look. My brain cannot come to the realization that I am not fat anymore. I guess 40 years of being called "fat boy" or "boob man" has taken its toll. I still do silly things like pull the front of my shirt every few seconds ( a habit formed from the need to prevent my shirt from sticking to my formerly cup A man boobs)...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jelotr View Post
              Yodiewan - go on put up the pictures. I am approaching everything from the opposite direction (losing fat) and need a reason to put up some pictures (After being very physically large I have still to get my head around it being ok to display to the world I am not that big and muscular any more). Maybe we can get something going to encourage each other and help other????
              Sounds good! Think I should post them on this thread or link to the before and after thread?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by chickenbackside View Post
                Haha, thanks RSL.

                But you know what, honestly, I am still having trouble accepting compliments about the way I look. My brain cannot come to the realization that I am not fat anymore. I guess 40 years of being called "fat boy" or "boob man" has taken its toll. I still do silly things like pull the front of my shirt every few seconds ( a habit formed from the need to prevent my shirt from sticking to my formerly cup A man boobs)...
                I’m so sorry but “boob man” made me laugh uncontrollably. Great change man!

                To deviate slightly from the subject; sometimes I feel like I’m not doing enough because I’m not doing the “big movements” using a barbell (OHP, deadlifts, squats, etc) I do challenging bodyweight work but still feel like I’m missing out on some magical “thing” that these lifts provide. Is there such a thing?

                Arthurb999, you do bodyweight work AND compound lifts, would you say there’s something to those that just can’t be done with bodyweight work, even weighted? Anybody else can jump in too.

                I’m getting real good at handstand push-ups (equivalent to overhead press?) and I don’t ever really squat heavy but I’ll do pistols through the week (so theoretically lifting 145-150lbs on one leg, but can only manage about 4 continuous reps so far) and do high-jumps, sprints, etc.
                I can’t think of a sub for deadlifts, so I don’t do any deadlift like movements but do work on front lever holds (tuck legs for now) and do feel like those work my entire upper body, but not my hams/legs much at all, it’s also not an explosive movement like a deadlift but rather an isometric hold.

                I worked these lifts on my first months of primal, first with 5x5 then later with 3x5 schemes and felt awesome. Then I got really into bodyweight work and I know both can coexist but the availability of a gym is not there for me at the moment, and I really don’t want to pay a gym anymore. I know now that great strength can be achieved with nothing but a pull-up bar, if one were to be minimalist about their approach to fitness, of course.

                So, the question is: Is there a superior benefit to doing the big lifts, using a barbell and plates, that can’t be gotten through other means? Preferably those answering this will have experience with both. Thank you all! And kindly forgive the sub-topic I’ve created.

                On topic: Lift heavy, eat more, but eat clean = success.
                I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                  So, the question is: Is there a superior benefit to doing the big lifts, using a barbell and plates, that can’t be gotten through other means? Preferably those answering this will have experience with both. Thank you all! And kindly forgive the sub-topic I’ve created.

                  I've read that lifting heavy things increases testosterone and human growth hormone. Not sure if you can get the same effect from just bodyweight

                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...one-naturally/
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/guest...er-the-basics/

                  Tho in this one, it says yoga poses were effective at raising testosterone

                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/empowering-poses/
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MeatMe216 View Post
                    I've read that lifting heavy things increases testosterone and human growth hormone. Not sure if you can get the same effect from just bodyweight

                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...one-naturally/
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/guest...er-the-basics/

                    Tho in this one, it says yoga poses were effective at raising testosterone

                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/empowering-poses/
                    Thanks for the prompt response. I’ve read that too but have also read to the contrary, or that the increase in testosterone/HGH is really rather minimal.

                    My confusion arises from this: Let’s assume I weigh 150lbs (I haven’t weighed myself in almost a month due to whole30, that was my last weigh-in though) and I’m working handstand push-ups, full ROM. If I do the same amount of reps/sets in overhead press, why should there be a testosterone/hgh boost from one but not the other if I’m moving the same weight? I see an added bonus in doing HSPU because you’re working on balance as well, even if holding against a wall I always am pretty much in a free standing handstand during the pressing motion, then my legs rest at the wall at the end of the movement.

                    I wonder if it’s a psychological thing that creates the hormonal release, like “If I don’t get this weight up It’s going to crush me!” doing say a heavy squat, that you wouldn’t feel doing a pistol even if the weight is arguably the same… hmmm…. Same logic can be applied to the overhead press/vs handstand push up, you can bail from a handstand push up if you’re failing the rep (I try not to, ever) but if doing an OHP you can’t afford failure, this has to play a part in your psyche….

                    I do wish I could start dead-lifting again though, nothing like dead-lifting. I need to just buy a bar, some plates, and get to work… it can be expensive, but in the long run so is a gym membership…
                    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      My current evolving belief is that losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time is very possible if you are starting from an unfit, fat place. Once you are pretty fit, it seems much harder to do so, depending on your genetics. It seems to be much easier to gain muscle quickly though, if you are willing to gain a bit of fat at the same time. Interestingly, all of the non-diet factors that work to reduce fat also work to increase muscle (lots of sleep, low stress, eating nutritious food).
                      If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                        Thanks for the prompt response. I’ve read that too but have also read to the contrary, or that the increase in testosterone/HGH is really rather minimal.

                        My confusion arises from this: Let’s assume I weigh 150lbs (I haven’t weighed myself in almost a month due to whole30, that was my last weigh-in though) and I’m working handstand push-ups, full ROM. If I do the same amount of reps/sets in overhead press, why should there be a testosterone/hgh boost from one but not the other if I’m moving the same weight? I see an added bonus in doing HSPU because you’re working on balance as well, even if holding against a wall I always am pretty much in a free standing handstand during the pressing motion, then my legs rest at the wall at the end of the movement.

                        I wonder if it’s a psychological thing that creates the hormonal release, like “If I don’t get this weight up It’s going to crush me!” doing say a heavy squat, that you wouldn’t feel doing a pistol even if the weight is arguably the same… hmmm…. Same logic can be applied to the overhead press/vs handstand push up, you can bail from a handstand push up if you’re failing the rep (I try not to, ever) but if doing an OHP you can’t afford failure, this has to play a part in your psyche….

                        I do wish I could start dead-lifting again though, nothing like dead-lifting. I need to just buy a bar, some plates, and get to work… it can be expensive, but in the long run so is a gym membership…
                        Couple thoughts: the handstand pushup is not the same ROM as the press; the press starts with the bar at your collarbones. I think very few people could do a strict press with their body weight (I'll never be able to) - the reason a handstand pushup is easier is because it eliminates the hardest part of the press movement. You can definitely "afford" failure on any barbell exercise. I do it at least once a week on either squat or press, that's the nature of always pushing yourself, sometimes you fail. That's why you have squat racks.
                        If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                          Couple thoughts: the handstand pushup is not the same ROM as the press; the press starts with the bar at your collarbones. I think very few people could do a strict press with their body weight (I'll never be able to) - the reason a handstand pushup is easier is because it eliminates the hardest part of the press movement. You can definitely "afford" failure on any barbell exercise. I do it at least once a week on either squat or press, that's the nature of always pushing yourself, sometimes you fail. That's why you have squat racks.
                          I'm not disagreeing with you, but I do my HSPU on parallettes and get my head well below my hands, if there was a bar there I'd be at the collarbone. I agree that with hands on the floor though you can't get a full ROM pressing movement like you can in an OHP. Also, I totally lied I can't yet do a full ROM HSPU like I described above ... but getting lower and lower!

                          Also, I meant failure from that psychological point of "needing" to clean the weight overhead, and that possibly having the hgh releasing prowess that I honestly think can be achieved from moving anything heavy, including your body. I think it's an overblown myth most of the time. Having said that, I do miss the iron.
                          I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                            Im working handstand push-ups, full ROM. If I do the same amount of reps/sets in overhead press, why should there be a testosterone/hgh boost from one but not the other
                            I would consider handstand pushups more of an extreme bodyweight movement, so I would assume that you get the same benefit of using weights on an overhead-press, plus the added benefit of fullbody conrtol/balance.

                            Maybe the big differences would be pushups vs bench, or bodyweight squats vs weighted squats. Pushups and squats get pretty easy as one gets fit and you must use high reps to tire the muscles, where as using weights on the same movements shocks the muscles very quickly and may cause the hormonal situation you are looking for.

                            Handstand pushups are pretty impressive, good job.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MeatMe216 View Post
                              I would consider handstand pushups more of an extreme bodyweight movement, so I would assume that you get the same benefit of using weights on an overhead-press, plus the added benefit of fullbody conrtol/balance.

                              Maybe the big differences would be pushups vs bench, or bodyweight squats vs weighted squats. Pushups and squats get pretty easy as one gets fit and you must use high reps to tire the muscles, where as using weights on the same movements shocks the muscles very quickly and may cause the hormonal situation you are looking for.

                              Handstand pushups are pretty impressive, good job.
                              Eh, I won’t go patting myself on the back just yet but I do work them on push-up handles or parallettes to get deeper than what hands on the floor would allow. I’m trying not to work them too often but I love the feeling. I need to give it a rest until Wednesday at least. My entire upper body is shot from yesterday I spent most of the afternoon doing stuff in my room, L-sits, HSPU, tricep extensions, ab-wheel roll outs, plyo push-ups (changing hand placement at every rep, wide, close, skewed, closer to the hip, etc) bridges (they DO work the hamstrings, never tried it before but after reading that Paul Wade article I decided to give them a shot, hell on the triceps too) all mostly out of sheer boredom but I got a pretty good workout. Didn’t think so since I was spacing it out a lot but yeah I’m feeling it today. I felt like a convict stuck in my room all day, rainy day + football … I felt lethargic so I decided to workout and it turned into a long ass session.
                              I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                                Thanks for the prompt response. I’ve read that too but have also read to the contrary, or that the increase in testosterone/HGH is really rather minimal.

                                My confusion arises from this: Let’s assume I weigh 150lbs (I haven’t weighed myself in almost a month due to whole30, that was my last weigh-in though) and I’m working handstand push-ups, full ROM. If I do the same amount of reps/sets in overhead press, why should there be a testosterone/hgh boost from one but not the other if I’m moving the same weight? I see an added bonus in doing HSPU because you’re working on balance as well, even if holding against a wall I always am pretty much in a free standing handstand during the pressing motion, then my legs rest at the wall at the end of the movement.

                                I wonder if it’s a psychological thing that creates the hormonal release, like “If I don’t get this weight up It’s going to crush me!” doing say a heavy squat, that you wouldn’t feel doing a pistol even if the weight is arguably the same… hmmm…. Same logic can be applied to the overhead press/vs handstand push up, you can bail from a handstand push up if you’re failing the rep (I try not to, ever) but if doing an OHP you can’t afford failure, this has to play a part in your psyche….

                                I do wish I could start dead-lifting again though, nothing like dead-lifting. I need to just buy a bar, some plates, and get to work… it can be expensive, but in the long run so is a gym membership…
                                The reason you won't get the same hormonal response is simply:

                                If you can do 4 near full range HSPU with a theoretical 150lbs then you may be able to do 8 strict military press with 150lbs on the bar. Anytime you are working on balance the trade off is overall weight. This means that the muscles you are supposedly targeting are working within the load limit they can handle already while other parts of the balancing act breakdown.

                                If you want big strong shoulders do military press. If you want to get good at HSPU do HSPU. Not that I am knocking BW as a fitness enhancer but it can only take you so far. Which may be as far as you need to take it depending on your goals.
                                Don't be a paleotard...

                                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

                                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

                                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

                                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

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