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New (vegan) member with some questions!

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  • #31
    I just want to applaud LibbyLou AND all those who have responded here for being civil and open minded!

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    • #32
      Thanks, Goldie. I appreciate that as well!

      Also, beautiful dog in your avatar!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by LibbyLou View Post
        Thanks, Goldie. I appreciate that as well!

        Also, beautiful dog in your avatar!
        Thanks, LL! He's one of the Goldens we rescued, and he's an absolute love bug! Is yours a lab? I love the retrievers! (Although our other Golden is a "receiver", not a retriever. He likes to play keep-away!)

        My older daughter tried vegetarian for about a year when she was a teen. I agreed to accomodate her dietary needs, as long as she thoroughly researched what nutrition she'd need, which she did. At the end, she gave it up because she "felt tired all the time" (even though we made sure she got the supplements she was missing from meat products). She also made sure not to wear any leather products or clothing made by killing animals, which in some ways was more difficult to figure out than the nutrition. She was a fashion plate in high school and loved those high heels...

        I'm lucky to be able to see the cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens on the farms where I buy my meat. I know the farmers, and know that the animals are treated humanely and fed what they're supposed to eat naturally. It makes a difference for my mental health as well as my physical health!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Goldie View Post
          Thanks, LL! He's one of the Goldens we rescued, and he's an absolute love bug! Is yours a lab? I love the retrievers! (Although our other Golden is a "receiver", not a retriever. He likes to play keep-away!)

          My older daughter tried vegetarian for about a year when she was a teen. I agreed to accomodate her dietary needs, as long as she thoroughly researched what nutrition she'd need, which she did. At the end, she gave it up because she "felt tired all the time" (even though we made sure she got the supplements she was missing from meat products). She also made sure not to wear any leather products or clothing made by killing animals, which in some ways was more difficult to figure out than the nutrition. She was a fashion plate in high school and loved those high heels...

          I'm lucky to be able to see the cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens on the farms where I buy my meat. I know the farmers, and know that the animals are treated humanely and fed what they're supposed to eat naturally. It makes a difference for my mental health as well as my physical health!
          Yes, he's a lab - and also tends to be more of a "receiver" than retriever. LOL! But he's like another kid to us, we adore him. He's 3 but still acts like a little pup.

          I am also tired all the time. Actually no, I'm downright exhausted all the time. From the time I wake up in the morning until the time I fall into bed. And doesn't matter how much sleep I get. Not fun. Of course this may not be from my diet, I may just be dying (my husband doesn't think that's all that funny).

          I am planning on maybe visiting the farms I've found online that are nearby to see for myself how the animals are treated, fed, etc. We'll see how that goes!

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          • #35
            Finnegans Wake, thank you so much for your reply. Believe it or not, I totally get everything you are saying.

            EVERY DIETARY CHOICE HAS ITS OWN RELATIVE IMPACT. Veg*n choices are not necesaarily better, and are usually worse in terms of number of animals killed and even enviro impact (at least when compared to pasture-based livestock). And focusing on diet to the exclusion of all other lifestyle choices is both hypocritical and myopic.

            Let's treat animals well. But also humans, and the environment. Eat meat if it's to your taste, or not, who really cares. The false sanctimony of veg*ns over how much more noble and harmonious their choices are as they eat soyburgers and bananas irks me just a tad.

            Not saying the OP is guilty of all bad veg*n lifestyle hypocrisy, just saying that people ignore the bigger picture, almost always. You can go slightly mad from all the potential impacts of these choices, so do the best you can.
            I hope I haven't been sanctimonious and a hypocrite over the past few years over my choices (because even before I went totally vegan, I was mainly concerned about the animals), but I have a fear that maybe I have been. And I am truly seeing the error of my ways, much to my own dismay. I think I have been very myopic when it comes to it all, but at least I am seeing that now.

            Going slightly mad from all the potential impacts of dietary and other choices in life is certainly not an understatement, that's for sure. I don't really follow any religion per se, but I have been very interested in and studying/reading about Buddhism for quite a while now and I think maybe that has clouded my judgement a tad bit as well. (no harm, etc.)

            I am loving all the input and opinions I am getting here, so please keep them coming!

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            • #36
              Oh, and why "veg*n" - is it like, a dirty word?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by LibbyLou View Post
                Oh, and why "veg*n" - is it like, a dirty word?
                the * can be "a" or "etaria." Just an all-encompassing term for meat shunners.
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                  the * can be "a" or "etaria." Just an all-encompassing term for meat shunners.
                  OH, now I get it. Why thanks.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Finnegans Wake
                    Some of my best friends are veg*ns! Seriously!

                    There's a difference between veg*ns and veg*ngelicals, and I must say, veg*ngelicals are some of the nastiest, most ill-informed people I've come across. I chalk it up to B-12 deficiency.

                    "Tibetans are not, as a rule, vegetarians, because in Tibet vegetables are scarce and meat forms a large part of the staple diet. However, it is considered more ethical to eat the meat of larger animals such as yaks, than small ones, because fewer large animals would have to be killed." -- the Dalai Lama
                    You may very well be correct about the B12 deficiency and the veg*ngelicals!

                    Thanks for the Dalai Lama quote. I am investigating all that now as well. Gah, too much going on in my brains lately!

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                    • #40
                      Your avatar is the second cutest...
                      Breathe. Move forward.

                      I just eat what I want...

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                      • #41
                        I don't doubt that you will make a conscientious choice whichever path you choose; I'm sure you will be considering the well being of others as well as animals and the planet. We are living in a very flawed system, one that by simply living we are forced to be accomplices in actions that cause harm and suffering so as conscientious beings we do the best we can. I want to encourage you as you consider the options to keep in mind your own health. Remember to nourish yourself.

                        I say this because I have a friend who really believed being a vegetarian was the most ethical choice and yet her health suffered, so she attempted eating primal but always struggled with it. She would often skip eating because she didn't have access to the right kind of primal foods (humanely raised proteins) or didn't take the time to prepare foods. She told me she actually felt better eating primally but she could't stick to it. She set the bar too high for what she felt was okay to eat. I often reminded her not to let perfect be the enemy of the good. She lives a chaotic life and she tells me that when her life is more settled she will eat more primally because her body feels much better when she does. It was not easy for her to accept the fact that she her body does better on a diet that she feels is not the most ethical.
                        Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by excursivey View Post
                          Your avatar is the second cutest...
                          Aw, love yours too!

                          Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                          I say this because I have a friend who really believed being a vegetarian was the most ethical choice and yet her health suffered, so she attempted eating primal but always struggled with it. She would often skip eating because she didn't have access to the right kind of primal foods (humanely raised proteins) or didn't take the time to prepare foods. She told me she actually felt better eating primally but she could't stick to it. She set the bar too high for what she felt was okay to eat. I often reminded her not to let perfect be the enemy of the good. She lives a chaotic life and she tells me that when her life is more settled she will eat more primally because her body feels much better when she does. It was not easy for her to accept the fact that she her body does better on a diet that she feels is not the most ethical.
                          Oh my, this sounds like me already! I feel like my head is spinning with my inability to figure out just what I should eat and worrying about finding the right kind of primal foods. I feel like if I can't do that, then I will end up barely eating at all. I am already driving my poor DH insane, I'm afraid. *sigh*

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                          • #43
                            [QUOTE=LibbyLou;1254327

                            Oh my, this sounds like me already! I feel like my head is spinning with my inability to figure out just what I should eat and worrying about finding the right kind of primal foods. I feel like if I can't do that, then I will end up barely eating at all. I am already driving my poor DH insane, I'm afraid. *sigh*[/QUOTE]

                            In that case this should be your mantra:
                            Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

                            Intention matters, you will not intend to do harm, do the best you can with what you can reasonably acquire. Please be easy on yourself! Try not to stress out about being perfectly primal.
                            Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                            • #44
                              In the end, worms will eat us. Depending on our chosen method of disposal, maybe even small animals and some birds. They scavenge instead of kill, but most of the creatures on earth are food for some other animal.

                              There are some very respectful producers of animal products. Here are two - one is local to me and the other is from up north, but both deliver a quality product:

                              Chappapeela Farms | coolest little duck farm in the south with the prettiest pigs around



                              U.S. Wellness Meats Our Animals Eat Right So You Can Too.



                              Also, Organic Valley, which has products even in mainstream grocery stores has a pretty heavy duty commitment to quality and animal welfare.

                              Welcome - good health to you!
                              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                              B*tch-lite

                              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                                In that case this should be your mantra:
                                Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

                                Intention matters, you will not intend to do harm, do the best you can with what you can reasonably acquire. Please be easy on yourself! Try not to stress out about being perfectly primal.
                                Thanks, Urban Forager. This is what I will work on!

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