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Recovering chef wondering if it's too late.

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  • #16
    I'm 69. I've been on primal 2 1/2 years. (Actually much closer to Archevore.) I was on Metformin, which I think is a fairly healthy med. My doc took me off it because she thought it was damaging my liver. She wanted to put me on some crappy med. I refused.
    Instead, I started IFing, which reduced my carbs more, and started being more active. My glucose has actually gone down. I'm not really suggesting you IF yet. Just saying that it most definitely is not too late for you. Good luck.
    Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

    My MDA Friday success story - Stubborn Senior's Testimonial


    • #17
      Welcome Shawn. I just started primal a few weeks ago. I just gave up raw dairy yesterday day though. Any changes you make to your diet in favor of primal are to your benefit. I certainly deviate from primal eating from time to time. Sometimes you have to spend a few weeks getting to know your body. I didnt want to give up raw milk and raw cheese. I read on here that some people do great eating dairy and lose weigth, get healthier, etc... I went primal and kept raw dairy for 4 weeks and have decided that my body could benefit from eliminating dairy for 30 days. (Tasty raw I miss you!). In 30 days, I'll drink big glasses of awesome tasty raw milk and see how my body feels. If my body doesnt like it...then I'll listen to my body and limit dairy raw cheese every once in a while. I also eat about an ounce of 85% dark chocolate every day. Will I give up dark chocolate some day...I doubt it. Will I every once in a while eat heritage rice? Probably. Am I way healthier than I was a month bet!

      Sometimes it is a journey. I experiemented with nightshades, for example. I discoverd that tomatoes and peppers especially make me sick. I will probably give organic white potatoes another chance at some point, even though they are nightshades too. but again, if my body says...NO Potatoes...I'll respect that.

      Your butcher shop sounds awesome! I wish I lived near it.

      Again welcome!
      It's just another day in paradise
      As you stumble to your bed
      You'd give anything to silence
      Those voices ringing in your head
      You thought you could find happiness
      Just over that green hill
      You thought you would be satisfied
      But you never will-
      Learn to be still
      -The Eagles


      • #18
        Thanks for the replies, all.

        I am planning in the next couple of weeks to see my doctor about dropping my meds on an experimental basis. I think my PCP, who is more my age and open to new ideas, will be more willing to accept this plan than my endocrinologist, who is a very by-the-book, regimented kinda guy. We're just not reading the same books.

        The butcher shop will be opening in September, hopefully, in Alcoa, TN, just south of Knoxville.

        I reat my previous question:

        What is the Primal opinion on such supplements as Life Plus daily Biobasics? They've supposedly done wonderful things for my immediate family, but are they primal?


        • #19
          Originally posted by Shawn the Meat Man View Post
          I reat my previous question:

          What is the Primal opinion on such supplements as Life Plus daily Biobasics? They've supposedly done wonderful things for my immediate family, but are they primal?
          I think it would be near impossible to answer that definitively. Someone may have noticed an improvement in his health with taking product X, but unless he'd changed nothing else in his routine how would you know it was down to that?

          The lastest thinking among paleo researchers seems to be that supplements can be counter-productive. See, for example, prof. Cordain's latest book:

 The Paleo Answer: 7 Days to Lose Weight, Feel Great, Stay Young (9781118016084): Loren Cordain: Books

          I think there are so many things in the product that you link that predicting what it may or may not do would be like playing chess in 3-dimensions. Maybe you coud do with supplementation of some of those nutrients but not of others. Without labs and specific guidance from a knowledgeable physician how could you have a hope of knowing?

          Here are some things that would give me -- rightly or wrongly - pause for thought.

          1. The largest single component in there seems to be psyllium husks. Now psyllium is actually one thing that Cordain is not (necessarily) against, although he generally preaches caution with supplements. However, fiber seems to an area fraught with controversy. One friend of Mark's -- Konstantin Monasterky -- has a whole book warning against the excessive consumption of fiber:

 Fiber Menace: The Truth About the Leading Role of Fiber in Diet Failure, Constipation, Hemorrhoids, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Ulcerative Colitis, Crohn's Disease, and Colon Cancer (9780970679642): Konstantin Monastyrsky: Books

          I don't know whether Mark has ever commented on psyllium husks, but there's probably grounds for thinking he mght not regard them as Primal. I'd certainly not like to say that they might not hurt some individuals' insides.

          2. There's quite a lot of calcium in there: 100% of the RDA. Is that really necessary? And what form is the calcium in?

          The ingredient label says "calcium carbonate". Bascially, that's chalk. It's cheap, but not an easily absorbable form of the mineral. Expensive supplements use microcrystalline calcium hydroxyapatite -- the form in which the mineral occurs in bone:

 calcium hydroxyapatite

          Prof. Cordain -- again, see the book linked earlier -- has grave misgivings about people comsuming "supra-normal" concentrations of calcium in the form of dairy products. Calcium supplements, particularly in non-absorbable forms may be even worse. Calcium supplements have been linked with increased risk of heart disease and stroke:

          Calcium supplements linked to significantly increased heart attack risk, study suggests

          They seem to have beocme something of a cultural obsession, because of people's fear of osteoporosis. However, bone is not just mineral but also has a protein matrix, and it's beginning to looka s though osteoporosis is likely linked with the latter not the former.

          Calcium supplements are probably not primal. Primal would probably advise getting your minerals through genuine bone-broth made by a real chef!

          3. Folic acid is the other one that strikes the eye. You get folate from liver, kidneys, and leafy green vegetables. It's necessary. Folic acid is not folate and does not occur in nature. it's stuffed in supplements in the hope that your liver will do the necessary conversion. Dubious thinking. Folic acid supplementation seems to be linked with some cancers. Again, see Cordain's book The Paleo Answer.

          Folic acid is probably not primal.

          There you go. I think some of the stuff in there is probably either harmless or actually a good thing, but there's at least three ingredients there that would give me pasue for thought.

          There may be some targetted minimal supplementation that would be -- temporarily -- useful for you if you've gone insulin-resistant. Again, I'd probably have a look at the suggestions at the back of Dr. Rosedale's book. I think it's probably best to take specific supplements for specific purposes on a short-term basis rather than take some kitchen-sink type pill.

          Most people can probably do with some vitamin D3 (since we don't get out in the sun enough), a little fish oil (since most of us don't eat enough oily fish), and some magnesium supplementation (since that mneral has become depleted in soil) -- and perhaps a probiotic. I think anything else is probably best minimized and taken as a something targeted at a specific personal need.

          I can't claim I've got a definitvev answer here, but that's my best understanding at present, and seems to be in line with what researchers like Cordain are saying.


          • #20
            I know you've already heard most of this, but here's my deal. I'm 28 years old, and I've had T2 since I was 18. In the past couple years, being on a high fiber, low fat diet, I have gone from just taking pills (metformin) to being on insulin and hbp meds. I started researching primal/paleo at the end of 2011 and decided to go for it in Feb/March of this year. Since starting, I'm down 44 pounds from my highest weight ever, my blood pressure has dropped enough that I went off my meds (I had to, because every time I stood up from a sitting position I'd get dizzy) and my A1C levels have dropped an entire point since my last blood test. My cholesterol levels have all gone to where they need to be (there was a threat of statins, that's what led me to MDA) and my doctor is totally happy with everything. 10 years of diabetes and being WAY overweight, trying every "diet" out there, trying to see if my insurance covered Gastric Bypass Surgery, trying to figure out if I could finance plastic surgery, etc. left me so depressed and disheartened, I never thought I would be healthy or attractive. Now I eat right, cross-fit during the week, go hiking sometimes, and everything is falling into place. I have a feeling I'll be off insulin within 6 months, and hopefully by this time next year, off meds in general and at my goal weight. I feel better, I look better, and I'm happy. It's NEVER too late!
            GW: No clue since I have never been thin. I'm "big boned" frame-wise so I'm shooting for 170-ish, but I'll see when I get there, I guess.
            CW: 268
            SW: 316

            As of 7/17/12 Down 48 pounds!


            • #21
              Welcome, Shawn.. I hope you have a great start to this lifestyle! I love all the studies people have offered you.. good reading. It sounds like you can definitely get off the meds, and turn your health around. 32 is so young still... I'm 35, and I see hubby's and my 55+ yr old parents aging rapidly, afflicted with sooo many health issues, and it just makes me sad and fired up to change my life before I become "broken". I've struggled with my own chronic health issues and feel them fading away as the weeks go by. I wish I could shout it to the world (or, my PCOS sister in law, my heart-attack father in law, my diabetes stepmother....) but no one will listen when I try! So I just smile when they tell me "Oh I would never give up bread" and know that I feel the best I've felt in my life. Look forward to hearing your updates!


              • #22
                Meghan and Sooze, thanks for chiming in and the great welcome.
                If I've learned anything this year, it's that those in denial tend to stay in denial. I've mentioned what I've learned to many, and have had to give up. So be it.

                I've made an appointment with my preferred doctor to discuss my diet and drugs. With or without his advice, but at least under his supervision, I'm gonna stop my Lipitor and Metformin meds. I'll keep up my CoQ10 for a while in case it helps me "recover" from years of statin use.

                Hopefully he will agree to the specific blood tests that I picked out of the PB book, and maybe repeat them monthly for the rest of the year.


                • #23
                  Hi Shawn

                  I'm not in any position to speak from experience re: meds and I'm new today myself, but I definitely know people who have taken the steps to change their diet (some much older than you) and have completely come off medications, so anything is possible. Of course, I need to take that on too!

                  Good luck.


                  • #24
                    Hi Louisa

                    I'm new to this and have just read your reply to Shawn - I love what you say about surrounding yourself with positive 'do-ers'. I want to be one of those!


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Shawn the Meat Man View Post
                      I've made an appointment with my preferred doctor to discuss my diet and drugs. With or without his advice, but at least under his supervision, I'm gonna stop my Lipitor and Metformin meds. I'll keep up my CoQ10 for a while in case it helps me "recover" from years of statin use.
                      Statins can be dropped cold turkey & I recommend doing that. Other meds, depending on what category & how long they've been taken, need to be weaned off of. You are young, smart(to be here @ MDA) & you're gonna likely be just fine. Great even!
                      Your mention of Lipotor jogged my memory & I searched & re-found this. For optimal use of CoQ10, check out this link, Buy Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) Powder | pertinent parts I've pasted below for you, great info. (Great bulk site, I used to buy their bulk 100% pure whey, all they have is real top quality stuff @ fair prices)

                      Caution: Do not exceed 800 mg per day.

                      Certain medications appear to deplete the body stores of CoQ10. These medications include statins (Lipitor Ž and others), fibric acid derivatives (LopidŽ and others), beta blockers (ToprolŽ and others), and tricyclic antidepressants (ElavilŽ and others). Individuals taking these types of medications should talk to their doctor about whether Coenzyme Q10 supplementation is right for them.

                      Many countries (including Japan, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Israel, and Canada) classify CoQ10 as a prescription drug. In the United States, CoQ10 is considered a natural supplement and is a main constituent of many supplements that are available over the counter. CoQ10 is featured in many forms including capsules, tablets, skin creams, and combination supplements.
                      Bioavailability, Mixing, and Solubility of Coenzyme Q10 (COQ10)

                      Coenzyme Q 10 is a very large molecule with some chemical properties that affect the rate in which the body can use it (hydrophobic). Very little is absorbed if it is just taken directly in powder form ( or as a powder in capsules). The assimilation and absorption of Coenzyme Q-10 may be improved if taken with a fatty substance such as oil, peanut butter, or olive oil. Subsequently, Coenzyme Q10 oral supplements are commonly sold as gel caps dissolved in soybean oil. While this delivery method is somewhat better, Purebulk suggests the following recipe to increase the bioavailability/absorption of Coenzyme Q10.

                      Coconut Q10 (Coenzyme Q10 & Coconut Oil Recipe for Increased Bioavailability)
                      1) Heat 16 fluid ounces coconut oil to between 150°F (65°C) and 158°F (70°C) in a sauce pan on the stove.
                      2) Add 25 grams Coenzyme Q10 powder. The powder will melt instantly and dissolve into the hot oil.
                      3) Stir for one minute.
                      4) Remove from heat and allow to cool to between 80°F (27°C) and 90°F (32°C).
                      5) Pour mixture into a rigid plastic or glass resealable food storage container and allow to cool to room temperature.
                      6) At below 76°F (24.4°C) coconut oil will turn solid, but that's alright.
                      7) The blended oil should be kept sealed but refrigeration is optional.
                      8) A level half teaspoon of this oil, liquid or solid, will net approximately 130 milligrams Co-enzyme Q10, which is in the usual range of a commonly recommended serving size for this most bio-available form of CoQ10.
                      9) Do not exceed a serving size of 1 level teaspoon (260 milligrams) of the blended Coenzyme Q10 coconut oil per day, except under the care and supervision of a physician.
                      10) Take your CoQ10 preferably with a fatty food at meal time. You may spread it on toast, or add it to any food like you would as if it were butter.

                      This 16 fluid ounce recipe will net 96 level teaspoons, or 192 level 1/2-teaspoons, enough highly bio-available coconut oil dissolved Coenzyme-Q10 for more than a 6 month supply.
                      Recommended Storage of Coenzyme-Q10

                      In its crystalline form, Coenzyme-Q10 is extremely susceptible to oxidation, a chemical reaction with the oxygen in air. If kept in contact with air, CoQ10 will change from its usual bright orange color to a dark brown color., and will lose potency.

                      The best way to keep Coenzyme-Q10 from oxidizing is to solubilize the powder (see the Coenzyme Q10 & Coconut Oil recipe above). Coconut oil usually contains up to 40% medium chain triglycerides - natural antioxidant oils that protect Coenzyme Q10 from oxidation.

                      You will receive a resealable bag containing this powder. Reseal IMMEDIATELY AFTER EACH USE, making sure that a minimal amount of air present inside the bag along with the CoQ10 powder. We do not recommend keeping CoQ10 in a resealable jar because of the volume of air that remains in the jar.

                      We also do not recommend that you have no more than 25 grams CoQ10 in a single bag. When purchasing larger quantities of CoQ10, order some smaller bags too. Upon receipt, repackage so as to minimize the air exposure of your CoQ10 supply. Fill each bag about half full. Each bag holds 25-50 grams.
                      References & Further Research

                      University of Maryland: Coenzyme Q10

                      WebMD: Questions and Answers About Coenzyme Q10

                      Coenzyme Q10: absorption, tissue uptake, metabolism and pharmacokinetics.
                      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


                      • #26
                        you can totally get where you want to go
                        Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                        Predator not Prey
                        Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                        CW 315 | SW 506
                        Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66

                        Contact me:


                        • #27
                          While Pure Bulk co is great, their CoQ10 is NOT cheap, not at all...
                          I have a friend who owns his own herbal & supplement formulation company in Calif, it's where we buy the CoQ10 my mom uses... PM me if you want his contact info (I earn zero commish if you buy his stuff, just good karma).
                          "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                          "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                          "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


                          • #28
                            Hey Betorq,
                            Thanks for the heads up. Right now, I take Qunol Coq10, to the tune of a measly 100mg a day. It is the Qunol gelcap, which boasts that it's as good as 300mg of dry pills. Whatever. I do know that it works, and I return to my sluggish self when I miss itfor a few days. I'm tempted to add it to my lunch, in addition to my current regimen of having it with breakfast. It is suggested to avoid it for dinner, as it could energize you late into the night. No thanks.
                            My Lipitor is the second smallest dose, and my Metformin is the lowest dose suggested to work at all. I feel I can cut these off cold turkey, especially since I've only had the Metformin for 6 months.

                            Wednesday I will hear my doctor's opinion.


                            • #29
                              Cool. Any high qual CoQ10, even a low dosage, imo is better than none. You can feel it, so it's doing something.
                              "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                              "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                              "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown