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  • Primal is making me FAT!

    Urgent message to Mark and opinion of Forum members.

    Hi Mark and everyone. Here is the thing. Going primal has made me FAT!!! before anyone assumes anything here is my background. I was an ex body builder and competed in women's body building. So I was and still very strict with how I ate. Never had any fats such as butter or cream and only ate lean protein, always free range and lots of vegetables and I would have fruit such as strawberries and apples once a day. I did have oats in the morning with my breakfast but lived off egg whites not the yolk. When I was introduced to Marks daily apple I thought this is what I need to break out of my strict regime and get my body to being healthy. So I do cross fit training now, I eat all organic/free range butter, cream and meat and loads of green vegetables. I walk 4-5 days a week for about 45 minutes to one hour, here is the thing I am getting fatter.
    Last edited by JoS; 10-17-2011, 12:29 AM.

  • #2
    Get your cortisol levels down.

    Comment


    • #3
      What do you mean by fat? No disrespect but without some numbers we can't know what kind of problem we're dealing with, or even if there is a problem (e.g. body image issues). Also what are you eating in a typical day?
      One preliminary thought is going more towards "traditional" paleo e.g. Cordain, or my preference De Vany. They're less of a giant leap from your previous diet.
      Last edited by brachiate; 10-17-2011, 02:15 AM. Reason: I agree about the cortisol FWIW
      The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat.
      (Lily Tomlin)

      I take life easier than almost anyone I know, but when I exercise I do it as though my life depends on it (which it does).
      (Arthur De Vany)

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi, thanks for your reply. I have gone from being lean with excellent muscle definition to carrying a spare tyre around my waist. I know have a 'muffin top' that hangs over my jeans.

        My typical day is breakfast: omelette with 3 eggs with spinach, avocado which is a 1/4 of a half or 4 boiled eggs, or 2 kangaroo sausages with spinach or steamed zucchini - its always protein and veg

        Lunch is either a salad which contains spinach, carrots, sprouts, zucchini, and protein which can be a tin of tuna in saltwater, 2 kangaroo patties, chicken breast I might have steamed vegetables instead of salad

        Dinner is protein, which can be fish 2 x week or kangaroo steak its always lean protein and steamed vegetables which my vegetables for breakfast, lunch or dinner always consist of broccoli, carrots, bok choy, spinach, silverbeet, tomatoes, pumpkin, chinese broccoli, I never eat white potatoes and occasionally I would eat sweet pot but that is probably once a week.

        Throughout the day I might have a handful of raw nuts, but thats about it for snacking. I used to eat six meals a day with body building. I have now stopped as from today but I was having pure cream in my coffee from organic cows and cooking in pure butter and coconut oil.

        I only drink herbal tea oh and alcohol I only have 1-2 glasses a week. Sometimes not even that.

        Comment


        • #5
          Surprising, as you say! I won't pretend to know the solution, but I suppose there's always a possibility of hormonal things e.g. thyroid. If not then like I said the De Vany approach to paleo is an idea, including intermittent fasts to increase insulin sensitivity and spend periods using body fat, and the tweaks to optimise exercise. Dairy (and apparently coconut) doesn't agree with some people. Good luck anyway.
          The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat.
          (Lily Tomlin)

          I take life easier than almost anyone I know, but when I exercise I do it as though my life depends on it (which it does).
          (Arthur De Vany)

          Comment


          • #6
            Simply too many calories for your current activity level? Lots of folks on here are current exercise junkies, and those of us who live less active lives can't eat the volume of food that is discussed here on a daily basis.

            Comment


            • #7
              JoS won't tell her weight & height because she is actually in very decent shape,
              "I weigh 60kg and my height is 176cm. I know my weight should be between 65-70 but honestly I would have 8 fat rolls instead of the three I have now on my stomach."
              That means 60 kg = 132.277 lb, 176 cm = 5.7 feet. A lot of folks on this board WISHED they were in as good a shape as JoS is in.

              She doesn't like my advice, so she started a new thread.
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post600340

              Grizz

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi JoS,

                Is the walking your only exercise? [I just noticed the bit about cross fit, which I don't do, so will leave in the following comments.] I wonder if it might not be a good idea to include the third leg of primal, i.e. sprint. Either running (probably best), or sprints on a bike or in the water, full out as if you were running from a saber-toothed tiger! That and/or once a week, lift really heavy -- something you can literally only do one to three times. Rule of thumb is that if you can sprint/lift heavy more than about once a week, you are not sprinting hard enough or lifting heavy enough. It should really strain your system and take a while to get over. Read more on MDA (the search is very helpful) about the chemistry of these activities -- also, see this article: Body by science - especially for women.

                Edit: with crossfit in the mix, perhaps it's more of a cortisol & calories thing.

                Other than than, you may need to count your calories. For many people, primal alone does the job. For some people (especially women), primal plus calorie restriction is needed. Edit: did it take you four years of strict primal to get the muffin top? Then calorie restriction is probably your answer.

                On the other hand, you do sound very fit. I wonder two things - if the muffin top is as pronounced as you feel it is (are you comparing to being in competition form? which is difficult or impossible to maintain over an extended period of time), and if you are stressing out about your body enough to raise your cortisol and in effect create a vicious circle. Do you sleep well? Other health issues?

                Primal is about body composition and health, not necessarily meeting some preconceived or idealized body image.

                Good luck!
                Last edited by beachrat; 10-17-2011, 05:25 AM.
                "If man made it, don't eat it." ..Jack LaLanne
                "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are.
                If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." ..Richard Feynman

                beachrat's new primal journal

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by brachiate View Post
                  Surprising, as you say! , but I suppose there's always a possibility of hormonal things e.g. thyroid. Good luck anyway.
                  Brachiate. IMO, you are exactly right. The Hormone that is in control of all others is Leptin. Leptin controls whether we burn fat or whether we burn sugar, then muscle & then bone. Leptin is in total control of all energy within our bodies. It is clear to me that JoS is "Leptin Resistant" and cannot burn fat cells if her life depended on it. No amount of dieting will convert her body from burning sugar, muscle & bone into becoming a FAT burner. See this link, introduction to Leptin for more:
                  http://tinyurl.com/Dr-Kruse-References

                  There are also some very good books about Leptin at Amazon.Com. I'm reading "Understanding Leptin" now, and it is quite good. I've ordered 2 other books on this subject.

                  The KEY to losing fat is to convert our bodies into a Fat Burner per this special diet:
                  MY LEPTIN PRESCRIPTION | Jack Kruse

                  Dr. Kruse "Mirror Test" is quite good to determine whether we are Leptin Resistant [LR] or not. Leptin Resistance actually shuts down the Thyroid, and this forces the muscles to shut down their fat burning ability. Also causes havoc with insulin sensitivity and every other hormone system. Dr. Kruse has pointed out that new science has PROVEN all of this.

                  EDIT:
                  Calorie restriction will just force her body to burn more muscle & bone, then after the calorie restriction is over, she will store even MORE fat. Her body thinks it is into "Starvation Mode" and will HORDE every fat cell before, during and after any calorie restriction. She got herself into this mess by eating too many meals and snacking.
                  More here:
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post595567

                  Grizz
                  Last edited by Grizz; 10-17-2011, 06:02 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello Grizz, that is not true at all I started a new post because I didn't know how to use the firum, and when I originally posted in the meet and greet I could not see it. That is my true weight. Please believe me when I say that Primal and eating fat, is making me fat around my mid section. I wish it wasn't. I enjoy cooking in grassfed butter and eating pure thick cream. I live and breath primal living. I may not be obese, or have 20kg to lose but everyone is different on how much they want to carry. I am lean everywhere else, yes but again I am holding onto stomach fat for some reason.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello Beachrat, thank you for your comments. I did for two weeks count my calories in fitday and I never exceeded 1500. I do eat a lot, especially meat and vegetables. It is in the last 6 months that I have really noticed the excess body fat around hips and stomach. I am not comparing myself to body building days, that was really unhealthy, and yes your right you can't maintain it, or do you want to. but what I am comparing myself to is when I wear jeans and look into the mirror it is hanging over my jeans!

                      My current routine is crossfit 4 x workouts a week, I will walk 4-5 days a week. I lift pretty heavy, well to me I am buggered by the time I finish. I sleep really well, I meditate before bed and in the morning, I roughly have 8-9 hours a night and I don't wake up to an alarm clock. Its not a body image thing, I promise you that. Thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Grizz again,

                        I wanted to point out a few things to you and I am open for you to tell me where I am going wrong.

                        To regain Leptin Sensitivity (LS) follow a strict Paleolithic diet as outlined in The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf or The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson. ( I have been following Primal/Paleo for 4 years strict. I would not dream of going near grains/wheat and for diary my body does not tolerate diary but I thought because cream dosen't contain the lactose I could get away with it)

                        Try to eat as soon as possible upon rising in the AM, ideally within 30 minutes of waking. ( I do this now, actually I have been doing it for quite some time, I wake up at 7am go to bed at 9.30-10pm and I normally have breakfast around 7.20am-7.30am)

                        Make sure that breakfast has little to no carbs (less than 50 grams), and has a lot of protein and fat. ( my breakfast is normally eggs x 3-4 cooked omleete, scrambled or boiled way with steamed silverbeet or spinach or grilled zucchini.)

                        Try to limit carb intake to 25 grams if you are overweight by more than 30 lbs. If you are fit and have a small amount of weight to lose, (less than 30 lbs.) you can titrate up your carb loads. ( I am the second one of course and I eat roughly 50-70g carbs a day.) Just to mention here I never ever eat junk food, I am very strict paleo/primal eater! The only treat I would allow myself was 2 squares of dark lindt 85% dark chocolate 1-2 x week. and I did not think that was bad.

                        My personal favorite is coconut oil because of the great metabolic effects of MCT, and how it helps heal the guts of LR folks. ( I cook in coconut oil and was cooking in grass fed butter).

                        I think the link you sent me is great, and I am really open to trying out anything new that will help me, but I am doing everything that is mentioned on the Leptin diet. I only eat 3 meals a day again lean meat and vegetables. Stress is not the problem, because I am not, life is to short to stress! I would not be on here posting if I did not think it was a concern, you always here of success stories which is so fantastic to read, but what about the people who arn't like me, its not about attacking those people and saying your doing it all wrong, I am confident I am following paleo/primal 100% I could not be any stricter!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sausages are generally pretty fatty as well. Sounds to me like you might need to cut back on your overall intake as well. I agree that fat is really easy to see when you're used to being super lean.
                          http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoS View Post
                            Hi Grizz again,

                            I wanted to point out a few things to you and I am open for you to tell me where I am going wrong.

                            To regain Leptin Sensitivity (LS) follow a strict Paleolithic diet as outlined in The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf or The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson. ( I have been following Primal/Paleo for 4 years strict. I would not dream of going near grains/wheat and for diary my body does not tolerate diary but I thought because cream dosen't contain the lactose I could get away with it)

                            Try to eat as soon as possible upon rising in the AM, ideally within 30 minutes of waking. ( I do this now, actually I have been doing it for quite some time, I wake up at 7am go to bed at 9.30-10pm and I normally have breakfast around 7.20am-7.30am)

                            Make sure that breakfast has little to no carbs (less than 50 grams), and has a lot of protein and fat. ( my breakfast is normally eggs x 3-4 cooked omleete, scrambled or boiled way with steamed silverbeet or spinach or grilled zucchini.)

                            Try to limit carb intake to 25 grams if you are overweight by more than 30 lbs. If you are fit and have a small amount of weight to lose, (less than 30 lbs.) you can titrate up your carb loads. ( I am the second one of course and I eat roughly 50-70g carbs a day.) Just to mention here I never ever eat junk food, I am very strict paleo/primal eater! The only treat I would allow myself was 2 squares of dark lindt 85% dark chocolate 1-2 x week. and I did not think that was bad.

                            My personal favorite is coconut oil because of the great metabolic effects of MCT, and how it helps heal the guts of LR folks. ( I cook in coconut oil and was cooking in grass fed butter).

                            I think the link you sent me is great, and I am really open to trying out anything new that will help me, but I am doing everything that is mentioned on the Leptin diet. I only eat 3 meals a day again lean meat and vegetables. Stress is not the problem, because I am not, life is to short to stress! I would not be on here posting if I did not think it was a concern, you always here of success stories which is so fantastic to read, but what about the people who arn't like me, its not about attacking those people and saying your doing it all wrong, I am confident I am following paleo/primal 100% I could not be any stricter!!!
                            I just have one question. Are you Leptin Resistant or not per Dr. Kruse "Mirror Test." If you answer yes, then I suggest you follow the good doctors diet to the letter for 8 weeks. It has done miracles for those of us following his program.
                            MY LEPTIN PRESCRIPTION | Jack Kruse
                            His program is not a simple "Paleo Diet."

                            I would go for less than 25 carbs if I were you, and that will put you into mild ketosis = fat burn 24/7.

                            Also read all of his comments following the diet, and read introduction to Leptin, and comments:
                            http://tinyurl.com/Dr-Kruse-References

                            EDIT:
                            If you don't like the Dr. Kruse Leptin Reset Diet, there are several other to choose from.
                            Search Amazon.Com for Leptin, and you will find several different Leptin Reset Diets.

                            PS) I think you should post a photo of your troublesome belly fat.

                            Best to you,
                            Grizz
                            Last edited by Grizz; 10-18-2011, 07:38 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nobody seems to have brought up leangains in this thread yet so, I'll do the honors. Have you considered the leangains approach? Daily IF works great for those of use with office jobs that still want to workout some and look great.
                              http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

                              Comment

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