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  • #31
    woohoo! another medical professional on board!
    my primal journal:


    • #32
      Have you ever considered moving to Vegas? Pretty please?

      Hey, it was worth a shot. I'm getting really tired of explaining to docs that I'm not a nutjob avoiding grains and that I'm actually fairly healthy. They always look surprised when they hear about my diet and then take my blood pressure.



      • #33
        Hot damn! Two in one day? There's plenty of room for you guys in Atlanta, spread the word! I drove 4 hours last week for a consult with Jack Kruse in Nashville. I can't tell you how refreshing it is not to tiptoe around the issue of diet.
        Last edited by Adrianag; 07-29-2011, 08:38 AM.


        • #34
          It really is very good to know that you'll find physicians on the market who can believe for themselves on the subject of nutrition and how much it impacts health


          • #35
            As someone who just sat through a Dr. appointment yesterday listening to him spout the same old tired re-used cliches, it's really good to know that they aren't all like that!

            The physician in question has never really done much of anything for me other than take my BP, listen to my heart, order lab work, tell me I have anemia then later tell me I didn't without so much as a reason as to why, and prescribe medications. In retrospect, from what I've learned (on my own) I've come to the conclusion that the test (like many are prone to do from what I've read) had a "false positive" result. In fact, when I was reading up on the issue of testing blood work and such one source SPECIFICALLY said not to panic if a "bad result" came back but to first re-test then verify before making any diagnosis.

            I've really only been focused on "alternative approaches" to diet/way of eating for about 2 months and this was the first time I had been back to the office. This person was NOT open to any kind of alternate approach to my two biggest health issues (weight and HBP) and just kept repeating the same old talking points -- cut out alcohol and NSAID (I don't drink and I've stopped taking aspirin), eat "better" -- without any real definition of what that was until pressed and then it was "portion control" and "eat less fat", get more exercise (I run 30 miles a week). When it came to weight, he didn't want to talk anything about body fat or body was just "how tall are you?" and the "well, you should be XXX" I don't remember what the number was because frankly I didn't care, but I could recognize the dubious BMI calculation a mile away!

            He WOULD NOT (probably because he didn't KNOW of anything else) give me any suggestions for controlling BP other than "well, if this dosage doesn't work, all we can do is raise it." Over the past 3 years, since going on enalapril, I've gone through a continuous cycle of the dosage controls and the BP is 120/80 and then slowly over time it creeps up then the dosage is raised and initially it's back to 120/80 and then...this has repeated itself three times, starting at 2.5mg, upped to 5mg, upped again to 10mg...and now I'm in that "creeping up" phase where he wanted to up me to 20mg but I told him that wasn't my preference and he said that he'd be willing to leave the dosage alone "for now" and that I should come back in 3 months.

            The important thing to remember is that against the backdrop of all of this, I've been following all of his advice: I've lost 50 lbs (roughly 250 to 200), gone from barely walking from the house to the car, the car to the desk and back each day to running 6x a week, and cleaning up my diet considerably: cutting out soda, I stopped eating fast food and other "junk" type foods, dropping my already (IMO) low alcohol consumption to damn near nothing -- I'm serious I MAYBE have 1 drink a month, (all changes made BEFORE finding MDA ) and I've stopped taking all OTC medications like pain relievers, cold medicine, etc. I think that with all of that going on if my BP is continuing to creep up (despite upping the ante twice) that maybe it's time to consider trying something different.

            I do have a family history with HBP, so while I understand that's a factor...but i refuse to just "accept" that I'm doomed to that and there's no alternative to just continuing to raise the dosage (or worse add medications) year after year, which is where I feel it's going right now.

            So, I guess I'll ask here: are the any "alternate" resources/idea for controlling BP outside of "big pharma" that you would recommend a patient similar to me investigate?
            Re-focusing on the Primal Lifestyle in 2012!

            Starting: 221.0lb, 29.5% BF (1/9/2012)
            Latest: 208.9, 26.1% BF (3/19/2012)



            • #36
              I'm not an MD, but here are some things you could try:

              garlic capsules, lots of them.

              magnesium "oil", which is a brine of magnesium chloride rubbed on the skin. Very relaxing, and eases muscle tension, good for cramps.

              And here's a quote -- sorry if it sounds like it is written for children. The rest of the article is even worse, and advocates low-fat eating, but I think this part is on the level:

              Arginine - The Source of Nitric Oxide

              Another natural way to help improve blood pressure is with nutritional supplements. Arginine, an amino acid that is vitally important for overall good health, may be a potent weapon in the fight against hypertension. Besides playing a positive role in blood pressure control, arginine (technically, L-arginine, but the L can be taken for granted) can also be helpful in a variety of other conditions, including type 2 diabetes and sexual dysfunction in both women and men.

              So how does arginine work its wonders? The answer lies in its ability to produce nitric oxide (NO), a simple gas made up of nitrogen and oxygen that performs some amazing feats in the human body. In fact, NO is such an important molecule that the 1998 Nobel Prize in Medicine was given to three scientists for their pioneering research on its role in human physiology.*

              *Paradoxically, nitric oxide is a free radical, a type of highly reactive molecule that is usually harmful to living tissues. Every rule has its exceptions.

              Nitric oxide penetrates and crosses the membranes of almost all cells in the body, and it helps regulate many cellular functions. It is even involved in memory function. In blood vessels, NO is vitally important because it regulates the tone of the endothelium, the layer of smooth cells that line the inside of the vessels. If these endothelial cells become dysfunctional, they can cause spasms or constrictions of the blood vessels that can then lead to hypertension.

              Arginine Reduces Blood Pressure in Healthy Adults

              More and more studies are being published showing the beneficial effects of arginine supplementation on blood pressure. A recent study in Italy examined blood pressure changes among six healthy male volunteers who were placed on three different diets.2 The first diet consisted of foods that contained 3 to 4 grams of arginine per day. The second diet was high in arginine-rich foods (nuts and legumes), so that these volunteers consumed about 10 grams of arginine daily. The third diet was the same as the first, except for the addition of 10 grams of supplemental arginine daily.

              After only one week, the men on both diets 2 and 3 registered significant decreases in blood pressure compared to those on diet 1. Interestingly, a statistically significant reduction in blood glucose (blood sugar) was also seen in the men on diet 2 or diet 3. Although the authors readily admit that the study had serious limitations (the short duration and the small number of subjects), they concluded that "the present study indicates that an approximately two-fold increase in dietary L-arginine intake had significant hemodynamic and metabolic effects in a group of healthy men."

              Arginine Reduces Blood Pressure in Diabetics

              People who suffer from diabetes have an increased risk for developing coronary artery disease, of which high blood pressure is often a significant component. Scientists are now looking at how arginine might help people with diabetes, in terms of both reducing their blood pressure and helping their bodies use insulin more efficiently.

              A recent study examined the effects on blood pressure when arginine was given to six patients with type 2 (age-related) diabetes and hypertension.3 They received 3 grams of arginine every hour for 10 hours on either day 2 or day 3 of the study. On both of these days, their blood pressure was monitored for the same 10 hours. The results showed that the patients' systolic and diastolic pressures were significantly reduced only 2 hours after they started taking arginine.

              And here's the address -- I don't care for the first part, but never mind, you can google "arginine and blood pressure" yourself and see what comes up.

              Life Enhancement:: Arginine Can Improve Your Blood Pressure

              I note that Google has found related searches which might be interesting to explore:

              Searches related to arginine and blood pressure

              lysine blood pressure

              glutamine blood pressure

              amino acids blood pressure

              carnitine blood pressure

              taurine blood pressure

              creatine blood pressure

              nitric oxide blood pressure

              arginine cholesterol


              • #37
                @Tim, I would agree with piano-doctor-lady. Magnesium oil and herbs like hawthorne and garlic are good for cardiovascular disease. I graduated from medical school 11 years ago. I find it interesting in that short time that the criteria for diagnosing conditions like hypertension and diabetes keep getting stricter. it wasn't long ago that the blood pressure goal for most people was 140/90. in fact, in otherwise healthy elderly patients, we used to accept much higher systolic (top number) readings, because they often get bad side effects from dropping their blood pressure. and diabetes used to be defined as a fasting blood glucose of 140 or greater. as these criteria get stricter (now 126), more and more patients are created who "need" medications. The obesity statistics are bogus too, as the BMI doesn't take into account the source of someone's weight. a muscle bound body builder with low body fat is considered as obese as his fat, couch potato counterpart with the same height and weight. I don't deny the impact of these conditions on people's health, I just question the impetus behind the medical system trying to create so many new patients. and doctors are sort of stuck, because if they don't chase the numbers that are considered normal, and something bad happens, they will easily lose a malpractice lawsuit.


                • #38
                  Originally posted by dr_mike View Post
                  sorry Griff,
                  I'm from Exton, Pennsylvania, which is in Chester County, about 45 minutes south of Philadelphia, PA.
                  It is also in his Profile Griff.
                  Ancestral Health Info

                  I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                  Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.


                  • #39
                    @Tim - Even within the conventional medical world you can do better than you current doc.
                    Ancestral Health Info

                    I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                    Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.


                    • #40
                      Yes, definitely great to see another doctor here! I also found MDA because of my doctor's office... Welcome aboard Dr. Mike!!!! Whoot to EVERYONE who has an open mind and is willing to NEVER EVER GIVE UP!

                      TGIF :-)
                      sigpic My goal pic...

                      Sugar is a damn drug. It's a sick and evil cycle that I must break permanently. GROKETTE ON!

             (My personal designs & creations of quality handcrafted jewelry. Items for grokettes AND groks of all ages.)


                      • #41
                        It's very nice to see some physicians on board - both for the benefit of patients and so eventually real data can be generated on this way of eating.

                        But I have a question for both physicians. I know that in many cases physicians are required to provide a certain "standard of care". So if you tell your patient to start eating a paleo diet and they subsequently have increased cholesterol and then have a heart attack, would you be more susceptible to litigation because you didn't prescribe statins and/or a low fat diet?

                        Don't get me wrong - I do NOT think a primal diet causes CAD - I believe inflammation is the problem. However, if you put enough people on the paleo diet, some of them are still going to have heart attacks, get cancer, have strokes, etc.....just wondering who will get the blame.
                        Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )