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Can anyone help me with morbid obesity?

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  • #46
    1



    Cheese has carbs, too. The amount depends on if it is fresh, soft, or hard. But always some.

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    • #47
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      dragonmamma, is this like "Fat Loss For Dummies"? I've never heard of that one before but I can think of a few people I can use this with

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      • #48
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        I cut and pasted that. It's been around for a while with the Body For Life Crowd.


        I think it's a good explanation for why it takes a while to see a difference in weight loss.

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        • #49
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          Now, if there was only a similar explanation of why people who carry a lot more weight on them tend to drop it much quicker (# lb-wise) than those who have a lot less weight to loose.

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          • #50
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            The dairy thing is true... all dairy seems to prevent fat loss, though there aren't any studies to prove this. Dr. Eades who has treated probably hundreds of thousands of patients in his practice and retirement has noticed this phenomena over and over. It doesn't matter if it is cream or butter or skim milk (it is something other than the carb) because dairy may have a special effect on insulin or ATP independent of it's nutrient composition.

            I think until we know for sure, let's go with the idea that dairy is a neolithic food and is not fit for human consumption, therefore, just like how nightshades cause joint inflammation, dairy may be damaging our natural metabolic process in some way...

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            • #51
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              I cant believe I am being considered a troll...I follow primal and get great benefits form energy from it but I am not obsessed with it. I am sorry but where you get your calories from does not change the basic facts of thermogentics. I think something vastly overlooked in this blueprint is eating when hungry. The little I have looked at this forum most posts are revolving around. I have been on primal 3 weeks and I have gained 2 pounds and am still obese.

              Let me make this abundantly clear to these people.

              IF YOU BURN MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN YOU WILL LOSE WEIGHT SO STOP EATING SO MUCH. TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE.


              -TO GRIFF

              Looking at your profile picture you are fat there is no other way to say it. I am not trying to insult you by saying this. But people act like you can eat as much steak and butter as you want and not gain weight.

              Continue doing what your doing and stay fat its your choice. I am not advising carbohydrates if that impression comes off. I am advocating basic will power .


              To Adopoctye- "Do some research. Obese bodies STORE FIRST, burn later, if they can burn at all."

              WHAT DOES THIS HAVE DO WITH ANYTHING?

              So you arguing agaiinst me telling an obese person from eating less but this statement.

              Please elaborate and point me to this so called study and explain any relevance it has.


              Here are some links I will provide which supplement my point which no one else seemed to do refuting my arguement

              http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html


              You can ban me for being a "troll" if you want I was just trying to help an obese person by saying "eat less move more" apparently I am missing out on some studies which point to the fact that eating less and moving more will NOT make you lose weight

              Thank You

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              • #52
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                Nobody gets banned, all kinds of misfits welcome! (Counting myself.)


                Perhaps I shouldn't speak for Griff, but most of us know him as someone who came here morbidly obese and IS changing his life around.


                Now, as to your premise, it perhaps a more nuanced approach or response would be, "Yes, generally, for most people, a lot of the time." But it doesn't explain what I call The Human Zucker Rat Syndrome. And apparently you aren't familiar with the work of Gary Taubes, "Good Calories, Bad Calories." What you eat is just as important as how much you eat.


                And there is the recent - back to the future, if you will - realization that lots of exercise does NOT burn the calories off. Your body hoards what fat it has and then tells you to eat more. A major thread on this recently because TIME magazine did a front page story on it. This might explain your weight increase.


                Welcome aboard, but please don't preach to us. Sit down, have some coconut milk, listen for awhile.

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                • #53
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                  Pie, what exactly are you missing? If the fat cells are storing what the person eats, and they can't burn their fat cells, how on earth will eating less result in fat loss? It does not. It cannot. We know this. We see this in obese humans who reduce intake, we see this in obese animals that are forced to eat less. They remain fat.


                  Watch Gary Taubes presentation to Dartmouth Medical School's grand rounds for a nice visual review of the literature on the topic: http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

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                  • #54
                    1



                    pie:


                    I'm going to do the simplified version. For the more complex and accurate version, I would suggest reading Good Calories, Bad Calories, chapters 20-24.


                    The first law of thermodynamics holds true, however there is nothing in that law that says which side of the equation is the cause, and which is the effect.


                    There is also nothing that says that energy(in) and energy(out) are independent variables. In fact, most studies show that E(in) and E(out) are dependent variables, and that delta-E is the cause: a faulty fat metabolism, either storage or release or both.


                    High basal levels of insulin will cause the body to store so much of the fuel that gets consumed that metabolically active cells more or less starve.


                    There are some very complex shenanigans that take place at the cell membrane of fat cells. One thing that makes this calories in / calories out thing so unreliable is that we can only really store fat in the presence of glucose. When our bodies break down the glucose molecule there is a byproduct that the fat cell uses to "fix" fatty acids into triglycerides. If you don't have the glucose byproduct, the fatty acids pretty much just pass back out to the blood stream where it can be delivered to muscles for fuel.


                    When we have more fatty acids than we can store, and we don't really need them for fuel, our bodies will do stuff like burn the fatty acids in futile cycles (it's a bit like building a wall, then taking the bricks you used to build the wall, carrying them across the street, and building another wall. rinse, repeat).


                    So it's not that calories in / calories out is completely wrong, it's just an incomplete picture, and with the right metabolic environment you can burn far more calories than you used to. And in the wrong metabolic environment you can store fuel that your body needs -- leaving a person hungry and frustrated.


                    Again, it is really very complex, and this is a simplification.

                    quette's journal

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                    • #55
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                      Desperate, I can so identify with you....I am going thru similar frustration; lets hang in there together ! Griff, you answered my post a few weeks ago saying "hang in there" I think I have just stumbled upon a key thing here....cut out dairy. I've been looking for my PB book to look up a rule of thumb on how much protein to take (I think my daughter must have taken my book back to Nepal with her)and saw the post indicating there are those who have lost weight with a 90/10 ratio of fat to protein.I would love to hear from someone doing that.


                      Eating eggs in am, have been doing dairy but will stop, meat, salad, veggies. 250 lbs.had lost 12 lbs. in the last yrbut gained back 4. I walk 6 days a wk, water aerobics 2 X wk, and weight training 3X wk.


                      Guidence, please !

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                      • #56
                        1



                        Desperate, has all this BS scared you off? This is normally a pretty happy tolerant sort of place. There are all kinds here, most are having success. It can be really quite educational to hang here. Let us know how you are doing.

                        It's grandma, but you can call me sir.

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                        • #57
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                          Pie, I'm not going to bother responding to you. I still think you're a troll - your response has not changed my mind about that. In fact, it's reinforced my belief that you are a troll.


                          I won't be responding to anything else you write, unless you attack another regular here as you just attacked me, in which case I'll make sure to let Mark know in email that you're disrupting his forums.


                          Have a nice day.

                          Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                          Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                          Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                          My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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                          • #58
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                            Yes, Sir Grandma is correct, except when it comes to calories-in/calories-out, this blog is pretty kind. You are feeling better, and you know that you are doing the right thing, so keep it up. If the diet doesn't work in 6 months, then reassess. It is not magic. I haven't lost weight either. And though I only need to loose 15 or 20, I relate to wanting it to be noticeable fast. Maybe you should try more fat and almost zero carb and see if it helps after a few more months. This is the only thing that keeps me from cheating. We know you can do it. Others think you can't... prove them wrong.

                            People here will continue to help through your whole journey if you are willing to hang in there with us. Diet functions like religion and people cling to beliefs... which makes us defensive.

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                            • #59
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                              Grokette et al; Rule of thumb for protein: .5 minimum, .7 good, 1 gram per pound of LEAN body mass per day. This is the most important macronutrient intake you have!


                              So,LBM x .7 = grams protein x 4 (calories per gram) is your baseline. The remaining macronutrients are fats and carbs. Screw the latter, if you have a sense of how many calories a day you wish to consume, subtract that protein and incorporate the rest as fats at 9 calories per gram.


                              There ya go.......

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                              • #60
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                                So, OnTheBayou .....thanks for this !


                                LBM is what you think you should reasonably weigh ? Sorry to be stupid. Or, how to calculate ? Been working out consistently so I know I've added some muscle. Does 1500 cals per day seem reasonable ?

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