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  • Before PB Picture, Needing Advice!

    Hi there all!
    I am relatively new to primal eating, about two weeks ago I read Mark's book and was amazed at how much I didn't know. I have always considered myself pretty healthy and active, but can never seem to lose any weight.... although I would never consider myself fat, I definitely would love to have a leaner body.

    I need help with a few observation I have made over the past couple weeks...
    - I am having a hard time finding foods that taste good to me... meat is starting to gross me out and I don't thing i can eat anymore red meat or i will be sick!! I used to love steaks etc but now i just can't handle anymore of it.
    - I am a bit confused as to how liberal primal diet is about eating fat. i have been including lots of nuts and seeds in my diet, as well as cooking with coconut oil.... i donno it just feels wrong!
    - Lately i've been really into spinning classes, but after reading PB i realized maybe i'm overdoing it... since its recommened only to sprint once every 7-10days, but if im trying to lose weight, then can i sprint more often or will this cause my stress hormones to spike?
    - what am i sopposed to eat if my i'm aiming for <80g of carbs per day? what are you all eating?
    - honestly what i have been enjoying eating the most latley is trail mix with dried fruits, seeds, nuts and dark chocolate chips.
    - i cant resist eating chocolates when i'm at my mom or grandmas houses, which indicates to me that i am still craving carbs..
    - i've had some mad stomach aches, not normal for me

    Please help me get my taste for food back and figure out what I should eat on a day to day basis! If you have any links to anyone eating plans/journal that would help.

    Thanks all!!! I hope some of you have time to reply! This is a picture of what I look like these days.. 5'4", 136lbs, 22 years old, bmi 21

    Picture 13..jpg
    Brazilian Girl Gone Primal!! -- my primal journal

  • #2
    I think you are maybe overanalysing things too much and perhaps thinking too much about what you can't eat. When I first started this journey I was exactly the same. I was repulsed about eating so much fat and was so over eating meat. I kept with it, stopped over analysing things so much, ate what i felt like eating (within the PB guidelines) and now all is good. It is just a stage you are going through and don't forget to eat lots of veggies and some fruit. Also you don't always have to eat red meat, make yourself some chicken curries, or just have some chicken with a nice big salad. You don't always have to cook with fat either just add some avacado or something.

    I know some people don't eat fruit, but I sometimes have a fruit salad for brekkie with some shredded coconut, greek yoghurt and nuts. That's primal and its not meat. When you really think about it you are only cutting out grains, sugars and legumes and it the whole context of things that is not alot to cut out, it leaves you with so, so much to eat, so just go with it
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread45312.html[SIGPIC]

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmmm....

      With the meat thing, you definitely need variety. That'll help. Change it up a bit. If you need a break for a day, have eggs. If it's just a red meat problem, eat more fish and chicken. Maybe shellfish. Or have a meat-free day. There's nothing wrong with that. Our ancestors didn't get to eat meat every single day.

      Eat as much fat as you're comfortable with. Some days are higher fat than others. I guess I don't go out of my way to eat extra fat, but I'm certainly not afraid of it anymore. Whether I like it or not, calories still do matter, so sometimes I have to go with less fat so I don't over-do the calories.

      How often are you doing spinning classes and how long are the classes? Once or twice a week shouldn't hurt. Overdoing it will up your cortisol and stall weight loss (been there, done that.) So long as you're not going at it for an hour several times a week, I don't think you'll have any trouble.

      It's pretty easy to stay under 80g of carbs a day with most veggies. Today I had 3 big carrots (steamed) at lunch, and a big pile of kale with dinner. About to eat a banana. If you get stuck on *what* to eat, just go to the grocery store, close your eyes and point. Whatever you point at is what's for dinner. Or randomly choose a letter and you have to find something that starts with that letter. Yes, I really play these games with myself sometimes- LOL

      Yeah, you might want to cut back on the nuts, dried fruit and chocolate too, especially if your goal is weight loss. Nothing brings my efforts to a halt like these things. They should be, at best, dessert. Cutting these out for a while should help you defeat your carb cravings.

      Stomach aches could be a lot of things. Upper abdominal or lower? It could be your body trying to adjust to digesting more protein and fat. Digestive enzymes should help if it's upper abdominal (your stomach) and probiotics should help if it's lower abdominal (intestines.)

      My "eating plan" is pretty boring. I just look and see what I have, and what's at risk of going to waste, and that's what's for dinner. I have a feeling I'll be eating a lot of turnips next week- lol. Yams are on sale at the grocery too, so I may end up having several of those. Meat is easier for me since I have a chest freezer. I open it, decide what sounds good, and eat that for a few days.

      Comment


      • #4
        Chicken, pork, fish, fish, eggs, fish. Green veggies, lots of veggies, different kinds. Sweet potatoes. Plenty of fats. Butter, olive oil, coconut oil, bacon grease, cream (if you do dairy). It's rich food and filling. Soups, with chicken or fish or sausages in it. Veggies too. Salads. Nuts are not that great, trail mix is for long hikes and such. Stop snacking. Eat some eggs.
        Hope that helps!
        If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah, you might want to cut back on the nuts, dried fruit and chocolate too, especially if your goal is weight loss. Nothing brings my efforts to a halt like these things.
          So nuts and seeds should be limited? So without those then ill basically be eating veggies and meat... seems like that would get boring really fast.. no?

          Maybe i am overanalyzing all of this. It just seems like so much to process.

          I like snacking, i dont enjoy large meals. In general I dont eat very much, and usually go with how my hunger is signaling, so im not going to stuff myself unless im hungry enough for it. That seems fair doesnt it?

          My spin classes are an hour each and very intense. I think ill keep it to 1-2 per week.

          I feel like sometimes i try so hard to follow the guidelines that at some point i just get frustrated and give up because i dont want to follow any eating plan anymore, but this time i do hope it will be different.

          thanks for the input guys. i hope some more of you have time to give me some advice
          Brazilian Girl Gone Primal!! -- my primal journal

          Comment


          • #6
            Darnit! I wrote out a whole response and then the website had a hiccup and lost it. So I'll write something else here but it won't be as long (that might actually be good!)

            - I am having a hard time finding foods that taste good to me... meat is starting to gross me out and I don't thing i can eat anymore red meat or i will be sick!! I used to love steaks etc but now i just can't handle anymore of it.
            Eat other meat or eggs then. Try chicken, turkey, guinea hen or emu! Try pork, sausage, bacon, deer, elk or moose. Try bison, try fish like salmon, cod, halibut, trout, sardines, kippers, try shrimp. LOTS of protein options!

            - I am a bit confused as to how liberal primal diet is about eating fat. i have been including lots of nuts and seeds in my diet, as well as cooking with coconut oil.... i donno it just feels wrong!
            Doesn't it though! We have been so well trained to avoid fat! Nuts and seeds DO have a good bit of fat but tend to be omega 6 mostly. I think nuts are a GREAT transitional food. Use them as you transition onto primal and as you get more comfortable with other sources of fats start eating less of them. But they ARE a great, portable snack in the beginning for sure! Try using olive oil in your salad dressings, eat avocados, buy grass fed meats and eat the fat, save your bacon grease and cook with it, etc.

            - Lately i've been really into spinning classes, but after reading PB i realized maybe i'm overdoing it... since its recommened only to sprint once every 7-10days, but if im trying to lose weight, then can i sprint more often or will this cause my stress hormones to spike?
            The way I look at it we eat this way and try to live this way so we can DO the things we enjoy. If you enjoy your spinning classes then you should do them. I would be willing to bet that with the changes in your diet you will lose SOME weight anyway and see a change in your body composition. IF after you have gotten your diet solidly where you want it AND you see yourself not progressing toward where you want your body THEN I would worry about the spinning classes. But remember, now that you know you don't HAVE to spin like crazy to lose weight and get fit you CAN skip class or take it easy in class when you want to. But if you WANT to go to spin class and ENJOY spin class then go! Enjoy! THATS why we do this.

            - what am i sopposed to eat if my i'm aiming for <80g of carbs per day? what are you all eating?
            - honestly what i have been enjoying eating the most latley is trail mix with dried fruits, seeds, nuts and dark chocolate chips.
            - i cant resist eating chocolates when i'm at my mom or grandmas houses, which indicates to me that i am still craving carbs..
            Avoid the dried fruit. It's going to be hard to keep your carbs in check AND eat dried fruit. It is WAY easy to overdo dried fruit. I can eat a dozen dried apricots in no time but I would rarely eat 12 raw, hydrated apricots in one sitting!
            Look up a list of glycemic index foods. The lower the glycemic index the more you can eat without crossing the <80 grams of carbs mark you have set yourself. Basics are avoid fruits and starchy veggies. If you are going to eat fruit aim for berries.

            - i've had some mad stomach aches, not normal for me
            This may be from the changes in your diet especially if you changed it rapidly. Try giving it a few more days and drink plenty of water. You might also try digestive enzymes and/or probiotics as someone mentioned above.


            A few other suggestions I have are:
            1) Keep a food journal for a while. This can be VERY helpful in figuring out how much of what you are ACTUALLY eating and if there are any foods in particular that bother you. I like sparkpeople.com and my brother likes myfitnesspal.com but there are tons out there.

            2) Check out paleoplan.com it is a meal planning site and it is pretty awesome. I used it more when I was starting out, now I kinda wing it more. You can read all the recipes for free and you can download a sample week for free. After that it is 9.99 a month and they give you a meal plan and a shopping list each week. It's got some REALLY tasty ideas (and a few I haven't been as impressed with too of course!)

            3) As far as getting bored with 'meat and veggies' isn't it just as boring to say 'meat, veggies and grain'? Look at it as beef, chicken, fish, pork, wildgame, carrots, parsnips (my new favorite!), peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuces, squashes, onions, rutabegas (this weeks new veggie experiment! I can't wait.) turnips, mushrooms, cauliflowers, broccoli, eggplant, ginger, herbs, celery, ... I think you get my point. There is a TON of food out there even without grains, beans and dairy. Paleo has helped me to explore new foods and new ways of cooking old foods that has made some really good changes to the way I think about and enjoy certain things. Go explore!

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            • #7
              i think your body looks amazing girl, lighten up! just stick with primal and in time your body will change, and i venture a guess your tastes will too. i think the trail mix will become less attractive.

              *try a roasted root veggie salad. just get a pan, lots of root veggies(rutabaga, sweet tater) some broccolli, cauli whatever else you like, onions and garlic and a fatty cut of any meat. slice the meat thina dn sprinkle it over everything, salt and bake....the fats from the meat cook into the veggies. then when its done just tip the pan onto a pplate and all the veggies/meat and fat are there! so good i do it all the time
              Get on my Level
              http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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              • #8
                I'd hit it.
                "Live Free or Die"

                Comment


                • #9
                  @Noctiluca - thank you for taking the time to reply! I think alot of what you said makes sense to me and i will consider it from now on! I have an app on my iphone that i can use to track my food intake, and it has really helped so far. I don't want to get obsessive about calories (been there, done that!!, not fun! )

                  Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                  i think your body looks amazing girl, lighten up! just stick with primal and in time your body will change, and i venture a guess your tastes will too. i think the trail mix will become less attractive.

                  *try a roasted root veggie salad. just get a pan, lots of root veggies(rutabaga, sweet tater) some broccolli, cauli whatever else you like, onions and garlic and a fatty cut of any meat. slice the meat thina dn sprinkle it over everything, salt and bake....the fats from the meat cook into the veggies. then when its done just tip the pan onto a pplate and all the veggies/meat and fat are there! so good i do it all the time
                  Thanks for the input MalPaz! I am actually noticing that the trailmix is less appealing now, so like Noctiluca mentioned about, this was probably just a transition food. Latley i've been eating lots of veg and meat. Still haven't cut the dairy out though, but have switch to full fat, organic alternative. I am going to try and not analyze so much, because i think that may be somewhat compromising my efforts.

                  Don't get me wrong, I love my curves and hope to never lose them. I just think for me i would like to be a bit tighter... so that my clothes fit loosely ( right now they are all snug!!!)

                  I'd hit it.
                  Thanks, but i didn't join the forum for comments like that i can go to a nightclub.
                  Brazilian Girl Gone Primal!! -- my primal journal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    just give it some time, and experiment with different dishes. i was exactly the same in the beginning (about the coconut oil and butter and bacon grease), it's just something to get used to then it's no biggie at all
                    beautiful
                    yeah you are

                    Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                    lol

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi there and welcome to the forums.

                      From your stats, 22 yr, 136 lbs, 5'4" you have a basal metabolic rate (BMR) of about 1450 kcal per day (I'll get back to that in a bit). You're already slim and you probably will have difficulty shedding the last bit. I can understand the desire to do so, I am at that point myself and have found that the only thing I can do now is to keep on keeping on. Do you lift heavy at all, or any body weight exercises? I'd suggest adding that if you don't. Build lean body mass to increase BMR – lift heavy three times a week for instance. Also employ high intensity interval training (HIIT) once or twice a week to boost your metabolism. When do this I do 2 minutes warmup, then 30 seconds as intense as I can, then 90 seconds active "rest" then as hard as I can for 30 seconds. Repeat 8 times... you'll feel it. Sprint, bike or step machine etc.

                      You can also try intermittent fast (IF), but I wouldn't recommend that before you are a bit more into primal and fully adjusted to burn fat. You'll only feel miserable and hungry before that. I do a 16 hour (~19 pm to ~11 am) IF each day and work out in a fasted state.

                      Anyhow - if we take your BMR into consideration and if your energy intake is for example 60% / 20% / 20% of fat, protein and carbohydrates.

                      1450 * 60% = 870 kcal or approx 97 gram fat
                      1450 * 20% = 290 kcal or approx 72 gram protein
                      1450 * 20% = 290 kcal or approx 72 gram carbohydrate

                      This is just to maintain your body functions etc. then you need to adjust for your activity level.

                      If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
                      If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
                      If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
                      If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
                      If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

                      Considering these you need to adjust your intake from about 2000 kcal to 2700 kcal per day to maintain your weight. Anything less and you will lose weight. Calories in DO matter when you are at your body fat level. Still, limit your carbohydrate intake and try to stay between 50 - 80 grams per day. Adjust fat and protein to meet your energy needs.

                      In regards to your food I think others have covered the most that I wanted to say. Good luck and grok on!
                      Sometimes you need to be told the truth in order to be able to see it.

                      My journal

                      I see grain people...

                      Exist in shadow, drifting away.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sungrazer View Post
                        Considering these you need to adjust your intake from about 2000 kcal to 2700 kcal per day to maintain your weight. Anything less and you will lose weight. Calories in DO matter when you are at your body fat level. Still, limit your carbohydrate intake and try to stay between 50 - 80 grams per day. Adjust fat and protein to meet your energy needs.

                        In regards to your food I think others have covered the most that I wanted to say. Good luck and grok on!
                        Hey there Sungrazer! Thanks for adding to this thread Your reply was very information packed, awesome!
                        Yes i realize i do have little to lose, but i do want to lose it nonetheless. So based on what others have recommended on my journal thread, i'm thinking of reducing my carb intake to 20g/day. I think it will only happen after christmas (realistically) but it i will happen! My goal is to lose 10lbs by the end of Feb. But I do agree that 50-80g is a reasonable range for steady weightloss.

                        Do you mean that i should multiply 1450cal/day x 1.55 (moderate activity)= 2247cal/day. That seems like a lot!!! I def won't eat that much ever. haha.

                        I have actually dont the workout plan you suggested with lifting and HIIT when i participated in Crossfit. Dont get me wrong, i loved it. But i wasnt getting the results i wanted. I think that I will try spin classes, with lifting sessions and see if that gets me results. But shouldnt we be sprinting only once every 7-10 days?

                        IF from 7pm-11am would be no problem for me. I can usually go from 5pm-morning (10am) without eating no problem. But I think you are right, my body still isnt efficient at burning fat at times like these.

                        Thanks for all your suggestions and for taking the time to help!

                        Good luck shedding those last few pounds

                        Amanda
                        Brazilian Girl Gone Primal!! -- my primal journal

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don’t want to go and confuse the crap out of Amandita since she’s new here, but I’m worried as to how exercising + being in ketosis works out?

                          I don’t know if any old timers will remember this, but I just went and found one of my favorite threads of old, rather than providing a link for it I’m going to copy the part that interested me the most back then and still now, from our old comrade Timothy who hasn’t been on the board for some time:

                          “Perhaps this is a heresy, but I don't consider all carbs the same. 100g of cellulose, hemicellulose, sucrose, and HFCS all have the exact same calorie count. But their metabolic effect is so different that grouping them together seems pointless. Cellulose passes through your body undigested by enzymes or bacteria (unless you're a termite). Hemicellulose feeds bacteria in your colon and converts to Vitamin K but is otherwise not a source of energy. Sucrose, of course, goes straight to blood glucose levels and provokes an insulin reaction. HFCS has to be heavily processed in the liver at the cost of vital nutrients. So why do we add all these different things together into one carb number? When you consider enzymes and glycemic index, the picture is even more complicated. Broccoli, for example, has sucrose and glucose but actually reverses the effects of diabetes (through an enzyme called sulforaphane.) Eat 100g of broccoli carbs and you'll still be in ketosis in my estimate. Eat 100g of HFCS and you'll be on the express train to diabetes. So what does it mean to say I ate 43g carb? By itself, approximately nothing.”

                          That was back in February of this year, around the time I joined the forum. It helped me a lot though because I was starting to get into the mindset that carbs were evil and I had to avoid them at all costs.

                          What carbs actually matter in the ketosis equation?? I don’t want Amandita or anybody out there to not eat carbs and still try to exercise hard, you need some carbs for that, plenty of vegetables and tubers depending on your preferred activity level.

                          Thoughts??

                          Edit: For what it’s worth, I eat a lot of veggies, broc, kale, spinach, and some starch like sweet potatoes every now and then, but I like to have heavy bodyweight workouts some days (which I consider my heavy lifting) and almost daily practice on other bodyweight stuff which is a little lighter in nature (hand balancing, etc) but I still would NOT consider myself as active as some guys/gals here that move heavy iron and stuff. I’d consider their carb requirements to be even higher than mine. Rivvin, case in point, does much better on higher primal carbs. I think if you plan on not exercising all that much then only fibrous veggie carbs should suffice. I’m just trying to understand the whole thing a little better…
                          Last edited by iniQuity; 12-17-2010, 12:19 PM.
                          I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                          • #14
                            Let me just tell you something- BMI is meaningless. It has nothing to do with health or how much fat you have. For example, a bodybuilder will probably be obese according to their BMI. Bodyfat percentage is a better way to determine all this. This is a good calculator I found: http://www.living-a-healthy-lifestyle.com/bodyfat.html

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by amandita View Post
                              [COLOR="Indigo"]
                              Do you mean that i should multiply 1450cal/day x 1.55 (moderate activity)= 2247cal/day. That seems like a lot!!! I def won't eat that much ever. haha.
                              Yes, it seems like a lot, but think about it - your body needs energy to function at an optimal level. By denying it incredible important nutrients and energy it will start to check it's options. (Too) little food with also generate a stress response in your body and you will definitely not like that!
                              Sometimes you need to be told the truth in order to be able to see it.

                              My journal

                              I see grain people...

                              Exist in shadow, drifting away.

                              Comment

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