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  • #16
    Originally posted by krassi View Post
    But I haven't seen any evidence for coffee being unhealthy. Doing a google search for "harmful effects of caffeine" doesn't bring about anything useful. Just because a random article you found through google says something is unhealthy doesn't mean it's true. You can probably find just as many articles through the keywords "beneficial effects of caffeine". Still doesn't prove anything.
    * Barrett-Connor, E., & Chang, J.C., & Edelstein, S.L. (1994). "Coffee-Associated Osteoporosis Offset by Daily Milk Consumption." Journal of the American Medical Association, 271(4): 280-283.
    * CARE Study Group. (2008). "Maternal Caffeine Intake During Pregnancy and Risk of Fetal Growth Restriction: A Large Prospective Observational Study." BMJ, 337: a2332.
    * CTV News. (22 January 2008). "Caffeine Doubles Miscarriage Risk, Study Finds." CTV.ca.
    * Ensminger, A.H. (1994). Foods and Nutrition Encyclopedia. CRC Press.
    * Grodstein, Goldman, M.B., Ryan, L., & Cramer, D.W. (1993). "Relation of Female Infertility to Consumption of Caffeinated Beverages." American Journal of Epidemiology, 137(12): 1353-1360.
    * Kaslow, J., MD. (n.d.). “Health Issues Associated with Coffee and Caffeine.” Drkaslow.com.
    * Kerr et al. (1993). "Effect of Caffeine on the Recognition of and Responses to Hypoglycemia in Humans." Annals of Internal Medicine, 119(8): 799-804.
    * Kirchheimer, S. (Reviewed by Michael W. Smith, MD, 2004). “Coffee, the New Health Food?” WebMD.
    * Kovacs, B., MS, RD. (Reviewed by Melissa Conrad Stöppler, MD, 2007). “Caffeine.” MedicineNet.
    * Mathur, R., MD. (Reviewed by William C. Shiel, Jr., MD, FACP, FACR, 2005). “Hypoglycemia.” MedicineNet.
    * ScienceDaily. (15 June 2007). "How Coffee Raises Cholesterol." ScienceDaily.com.
    * WebMD in Collaboration with the Cleveland Clinic. (2003; edited by Cynthia Dennison Haines, MD, on 1 April 2005). “Stretch Marks.” MedicineNet.

    Here's a good resource on studies/findings

    that took me a single Google search, 5 minutes and two links off of the front search page. If you are looking for reasons to continue drinking coffee you don't need one - if you like the ritual and are aware, accepting of the negative side effects of its consumption I have nothing left to harp about. But I am trying to spread the word to those who don't know any better which is why I'd like Mark to do a post on coffee and the steamy tendrils of addiction.

    I don't know if its different in Iceland Krassi - but here in America we have Starbucks, coffee shops etc about everywhere. In downtown denver there are literally 10 starbucks locations in about a 2 mile square radius -- what does that say about the demand for the drug they are selling? in fact Starbucks just recently introduced a new 30oz drink size. There is a coffee machine in my office that is constantly brewing coffee to keep up with demand. American culture has latched on to the stimulant of caffeine in part due to the culture of our work ethic. Many people are exhausted when they wake up and depend on coffee to wake up and mentally function.
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    • #17
      I've actually switched back to caffeinated coffee in the mornings, in lieu of decaf, because I'm concerned about the processing of coffee to remove the caffeine. I know there are water-decaffeinated options, but what else do they leach out in the process? I guess I decided to go more natural rather than less. I do still drink decaf in the evenings.

      I also drink caffeinated green tea (all decaf versions taste of fish to me!).
      Liz.

      Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
      Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

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      • #18
        I dunno. I do several things that are decidedly non-primal... because frankly, life is short, and there are things around to consume that I really, really enjoy. Coffee is one of them. Am I addicted? Sure. If others have a problem with that, that's really their problem.

        I have a once-per-week "life changing" hot cocoa too. Oh no! I probably shouldn't even post here.

        I guess the way I figure it is that I could go 100% "primal" or paleo or what have you. I could exercise perfectly, never cheat, only do "real" tabata sprints (or whatever the heck they're called) - but seriously, I think there's a point at which all this can become obsession. In my world, there is a balance between what is good for you and what is enjoyable. A lot of the time, those two things can coexist just fine (bacon, eggs, and avocados are super enjoyable as far as I'm concerned. So is doing deadlifts.) Sometimes though, those two things are different. And frankly, whether I live 70 years, or 100 years, I would rather not do it by being obsessively dogmatic about everything I consume and do.

        I enjoy coffee. For more than the stimulant effect. I enjoy ritual and routine, and enjoy the process of making it, sitting on the couch with it while snuggling with my kitten, and taking those few minutes to enjoy something warm before rushing off to work. I enjoy the taste more than tea. So what if it's "non primal" or cavemen wouldn't have consumed it?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by handgallop View Post
          I dunno. I do several things that are decidedly non-primal... because frankly, life is short, and there are things around to consume that I really, really enjoy. Coffee is one of them. Am I addicted? Sure. If others have a problem with that, that's really their problem.

          I have a once-per-week "life changing" hot cocoa too. Oh no! I probably shouldn't even post here.

          I guess the way I figure it is that I could go 100% "primal" or paleo or what have you. I could exercise perfectly, never cheat, only do "real" tabata sprints (or whatever the heck they're called) - but seriously, I think there's a point at which all this can become obsession. In my world, there is a balance between what is good for you and what is enjoyable. A lot of the time, those two things can coexist just fine (bacon, eggs, and avocados are super enjoyable as far as I'm concerned. So is doing deadlifts.) Sometimes though, those two things are different. And frankly, whether I live 70 years, or 100 years, I would rather not do it by being obsessively dogmatic about everything I consume and do.

          I enjoy coffee. For more than the stimulant effect. I enjoy ritual and routine, and enjoy the process of making it, sitting on the couch with it while snuggling with my kitten, and taking those few minutes to enjoy something warm before rushing off to work. I enjoy the taste more than tea. So what if it's "non primal" or cavemen wouldn't have consumed it?
          You have a KITTEN? That's like a caveman cuddling up with a tiger cub. Not primal. Bad bad person.
          Liz.

          Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
          Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

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          • #20
            hows your take on black tea fast cat, i quit coffee when i started primal simply because i took it with 6 sugars havent had any cravings since that day
            my photo stream
            The Enlightened Warrior

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            • #21
              Say what?

              A lot of these studies you posted say that caffeine isn't harmful at all, some are even saying that it's beneficial...

              I'm sure there have been studies that say coffee is harmful, but then there have also been studies saying coffee isn't, and that in fact it is healthy. This means the jury is still out on coffee, nothing's been proven either way, and you're making statements that have no scientific ground at all.

              Btw I'm sure that my ground-on-the-spot coffee machine produces healthier coffee than you can find at Starbucks.

              Yes, caffeine is the most consumed addictive substance on the planet.
              Kriskris.com

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              • #22
                Originally posted by This means the jury is still out on coffee, nothing's been proven either way, and you're making statements that have no scientific ground at all.
                This means the jury is still out on coffee, nothing's been proven either way, and you're making statements that have no scientific ground at all.
                the jury is still out on aspartame, MSG, High Fructose corn syrup etc. Ergo - eat up!

                Which statements am I making that have no scientific ground? That the caffeine inherent in coffee is addictive (you agree with me on this) or that it increases cortisol? Here's a great resource on the latter. Or maybe my assertion that coffee is the shit-colored-juice of hell! Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that last one!

                Btw I'm sure that my ground-on-the-spot coffee machine produces healthier coffee than you can find at Starbucks.
                How do you go about proving that?
                Last edited by TheFastCat; 02-22-2011, 02:26 PM.
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                • #23
                  Forget about it, I'm not gonna argue with you about this.

                  Kriskris.com

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                  • #24
                    Why the crusade? A starbucks truck run over your mother?
                    If your food is fast, maybe you should fast.

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                    • #25
                      I'll admit I like TFC anti-caffiene rants. If nothing else they do make me take a second look at my coffee habit. I say habit because I drink a sh*tload of it. Am I addicted? Probably. Do I care? Not really, but it wouldn't hurt me to cut back. (I didn't care when I ate donuts, pie, and icecream either but cutting those out made me feel a hell of a lot better). I do drink coffee at times to boost energy levels. Other times I drink it because it tastes freaking good. Perhaps I'll try a decaf during the tastes good moments and see how that works out.

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                      • #26
                        Hey TFC,
                        Do I agree with you that caffeine is a nasty evil substance that is doing a lot of harm to a lot of people? Yes.

                        Do either of us have the right to shove that opinion down the throats of everyone else? No.

                        You're acting like a douche kiddo. Give it a rest.

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                        • #27
                          Yes, this would be an interesting blog post! However, TFC, like krassi, I am looking for some scientific basis for your conclusion that coffee should not be consumed at all, here are some quotes from your “Good resource on studies/findings” link:

                          “Men who regularly consume caffeinated drinks have a lower risk of PD than do nondrinkers” (where PD=Parkinson’s Disease)
                          “Contrary to common belief, the published literature provides little evidence that coffee and/or caffeine in typical dosages increases the risk of infarction, sudden death or arrhythmia.”
                          For women, “The data suggest a strong inverse association between coffee intake and risk of suicide.”
                          “Although these data seem to indicate a convergence of risk factors (cholesterol, smoking, alcohol) in coffee drinkers, no increase in the prevalence of cardiovascular events was found in coffee drinkers in comparison with non drinkers.”

                          The only articles citing negative effects were those focused on people w/ glaucoma or existing hypertension, as one of the abstracts concludes “Over many years of follow-up, coffee drinking is associated with small increases in blood pressure, but appears to play a small role in the development of hypertension.”

                          In terms of the cortisol response, check out the results of this study:
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...edRA&linkpos=1
                          I will quote it here, so you don’t have to follow the link, “After 5 days of caffeine abstinence, caffeine challenge doses caused a robust increase in cortisol across the test day (p < .0001). In contrast, 5 days of caffeine intake at 300 mg/day and 600 mg/day abolished the cortisol response to the initial 9:00 AM caffeine dose, although cortisol levels were again elevated between 1:00 PM and 7:00 PM (p = .02 to .002) after the second caffeine dose taken at 1:00 PM. Cortisol levels declined to control levels during the evening sampling period.”

                          To me this means, if you are concerned about cortisol, but you love coffee, limit it to a serving containing 300 mg of caffeine in the morning.

                          I (and apparently a few others ) take no stock in links to google searches, and the one web page you have provided actually seems neutral (on the verge of pro) on coffee drinking. However, I do agree that those trying to reverse metabolic derangement should aim to get their cortisol levels down, and elimination of coffee would be a step in the right direction (I still don't think it's a huge piece of the puzzle unless you have some real data or scientific basis for us.) Also, I personally will quit coffee throughout pregnancy and breastfeeding.

                          I will conclude with a tidbit I found interesting (and depressing) while briefly doing some scholar.googling, it just might send you over the edge. From the review article “Is Coffee a Functional Food?” (spoiler alert, authors Dorea and da Costa decide that it is), “Sugar, coffee and tortilla accounted for one-third of all items mentioned in a dietary survey of poor urban Guatemalan toddlers (Krause et al. 1998).”

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                          • #28
                            Coffee has antioxydants.
                            Yerba Mate has Vitamins: A, C, E, B1, B2, B3, B5 and minerals like Calcium and Magnesium.
                            Green Tea has vitamin K and antioxydants.

                            I've read articles that claim that both Tea and Coffee can leach minerals from your bones. Of these 3 choices, Yerba Mate is probably the healthiest. (I like all three but tend to consume coffee more).

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                            • #29
                              I'm addicted to coffee because I can't afford cocaine.

                              I have quit coffee several times but each time go back to it because its such a social lubricant today. Everyone hangs out at the cafe. When I am working long hours I do need the energy boost to keep me going and keep me from falling asleep.

                              I do happen to think coffee is bad for you, but way down the bottom on the list of bad things (maybe just thats may addiction talking).

                              When I finally get myself 100% paleo I will see about ditching coffee. It'll be the last of my 20% I get rid of.
                              A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                              • #30
                                *step on librarian soapbox*
                                5 minutes of research on google (and/or wikipedia) is not conclusive evidence of anything, except what most people are looking at and what most people are believing. i can find a study on google right this second that says we all need to eat boatloads of whole grains so we don't have heart attacks.
                                *steps off*

                                aside from that. who cares? most of modern life is terrible for your health!
                                primal journal - the book of meatabix / food pr0n

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