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are peas and green beans okay?

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  • #31
    1



    I'll eat my low carb heirloom string beans from my garden, which aren't technically "paleo", any day over something which is considered "paleo" like a starchy,sugar bomb banana which has absolutely nothing to do with wild fruits that were available 8,000 + years ago.

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    • #32
      1



      Hrm. New[ish]to Primal/Paleo.


      Why are beans and peas not considered Grok food? Granted they need to be soaked to be edible, but so did olives.


      I'm guessing if Grok saw critters eating them he'd try them himself.


      He probably ate tubers, rice, and other whole wild grains on that same principle, I would think.


      Are legumes verboten because Grok really probably didn't eat them? Or is it just because they are starchy and hard on insulin production?


      Is there any archaeological evidence/artifacts telling us Grok's actual diet? Or is it speculation based on what we know about what was probably available at the time?


      Forgive me if my ignorance is showing. Just curious.

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      • #33
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        Diana Renata, its poor form attacking Tarlach like that. You can disagree with someone without being nasty.

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        • #34
          1



          brahnamin, many plants available today through domestication or artificial selection where not available at Grok's time (before agriculture even started).


          While it's difficult to know exactly what Grok ate, it very likely was plants, shoots, berries, insects and meat.

          “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
          "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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          • #35
            1



            So legumes didn't exist then?


            I mean, I get the rest. Plants, fruit, meat, etc. I guess beans just seem *natural* to me, but I'll be the first to admit I really don't know when what came along in the plant kingdom timeline.


            I also understand that if Grok did *gather* grain he probably had to do so by hand and therefore got very little of it and entirely unprocessed, in season, rare, etc.


            It was the bean thing that surprised me most when I started reading about both the Paleo and Primal eating plans.


            Not easy food in the wild by any means, but in times of starvation I imagine Grok ate quite a few things that would seem inconvenient to us.

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            • #36
              1



              I am not a botanist, but I think legumes were not palatable before being domesticated. If Grok tried to eat them, he would have ingested an unpalatable plant, with low nutritional value (at least when raw) and a significant amount of lectin (toxin).

              “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
              "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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              • #37
                1



                What I find interesting is imagining that Mesolithic period (in and around, I suppose, the Fertile Crescent), where hunter-gatherers were slowly making the transition to agriculture. It's not as if walls sprung up and they immediately began tilling soil and planting nice neat rows of wheat... there had to be a weird time when they were just trying all sorts of crazy new stuff. Of course, this was probably a rather long stretch of time spanning hundreds of generations.


                I wonder what made them decide, "Hey, this stuff isn't so bad once you cook it, ferment it, or soak it."

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                • #38
                  1



                  SerialSinner, you're whole domesticated thing still doesn't make any sense to me. By your reasoning you literally can't eat anything store bought, or anything grown by a farmer. You HAVE to go and find something in the wild if you don't want to eat "domesticated". Farmers have been farming and modifying vegetables for centuries to have what we produce now.


                  brahnamin, I think most of the issues when it comes to eating vegetables on a primal/paleo diet are from the carb/starch issue. Does it have a high sugar value or not? Because if you argue that Grok would or wouldn't eat certain vegetables in the wild you could debate it for a long, long time. Grok probably ate potatoes, hell Marks states it in his book, but they're high starch. Grok could have even eaten a form of corn considering all it is, is a modified form of grass.

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                  • #39
                    1



                    Relosa, as you say, it's not black or white. When I say I think legumes where domesticated into being palatable and therefore edible, I am not implying that *all* domesticated plants are not primal.


                    I would argue that heavily modified plants (ie, from inedible to edible) through domestication are not primal. I would also argue that plants that were potentially edible before but were "improved" via domestication are primal.

                    “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                    "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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                    • #40
                      1



                      Since I have had wild carrots, turnips, blackberries, and several other wild veggies, fruits and nuts.


                      I can put most are domesticated. wild carrots are typically bitter and have a higher fiber content than those that have been domesticated.


                      I would also argue that most people would find grubs unpalatable but I can assure you Grok ate them and typically uncooked and alive.


                      I would think that Grok at least ate wild legumes or there wouldn't have been a need to domesticate them.

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                      • #41
                        1



                        SerialSinner, alright I understand now. I just have a hard time using the word domestication to express food for paleo eating, especially when people say things like "If a caveman couldn't eat it, then I can't!" and then go off and say how leafy greens are great, but where did they get the leafy greens? A market of some sort, or maybe their own garden. Last I knew Grok didn't shop around and he didn't have a farm. So when people say "If Grok couldn't find it in the wild I wont eat it!" They should really be saying, "If it's high starch/carbs and it raises my insulin too much, then I wont eat it!" Really arguing about what Grok ate or didn't eat is pretty moot. Eating certain vegetables based on how they effect you on the inside is the real thing we should be basing our food off of.


                        erik.cisler, I think it was just observation over a long period of time. And probably a lot of the early agricultural plants were root vegetables and leafy greens. Grok would probably migrate from one place to another, stay a night where a majority of food was found and then go on his way. Then after multiple trips of stopping at the same spot a light bulb went off and he decided to stay put and live off of the available food that would regrow. The book Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond goes into this a bit. It's also a great history book that isn't boring.

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                        • #42
                          1



                          Besides the fact that Grok wouldn't go out and find green beans in the wild, thus making them NOT primal, what else is wrong with them? That question hasn't been answered in this thread. Grok couldn't forage for penicillin either, but I sure as shit would use it if I had to. Kidney, navy, and other starchy beans are high in carbs, green beans are not really. So what is the health issue?

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                          • #43
                            1



                            Of course beans were wild plants at one time! It appears Grok's descendants on two continents were cultivating the two major categories for thousands of years: "Beans are one of the longest-cultivated plants, broad beans having been grown at least since ancient Egypt, and the common bean for six thousand years in the Americas." WP. Almost every vegetable and grain we eat has some wild precursor.


                            Green beans and snow peas are eaten for the pod flesh, so there is very little "bean" in them. I can't imagine why they are getting a bad rap here.

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                            • #44
                              1



                              LOL! Sausage? Grok didn't even eat a cow! Or an emu.. or deep sea fish.. etc etc


                              Though I would love... LOVE to spend my day foraging around the beautiful Pacific Northwest where we have delicious edibles year round, un/fortunately that's just not my lifestyle. I live in the city and raise my family. We have a billion other things to do - like shop for quality food with my husband's paycheck - thanks to the innovation of agricultural technique and the industrial revolution.


                              I buy foraged wild edibles and eat the cultivated green leafs(i.e. succulent, juicy greens) and other vegetables from either my garden (which I cultivate) or the farmer's market (who also cultivate).


                              I have a few (domesticated) hens for eggs and I purchase grass fed beef, pigs, chickens and lamb (modern domesticated animals) for meat.


                              I think we'd have a hard time finding paleolithic creatures to eat.


                              I think what Mark might imply by "Did Grok eat it" is: Is it a whole natural food with primal human roots used to feed the human body for optimal function? Is it also delicious? Eat it!


                              Grok didn't eat Carrot Walnut Bread from domesticated carrots or English Walnuts either, but I bet he wished he would have! I'm pretty much dying to make some, but my carrots are done for the time being. Come fall crop though... watch out!


                              I can't speak for Mark - Wouldn't it be wonderful if he commented? )

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                              • #45
                                1



                                Relosa, Grok certainly didn't eat potatos. They weren't around then.

                                From that font of all knowledge, Wikipedia:


                                "Genetic testing of the wide variety of cultivars and wild species suggest that the potato has a single origin in the area of southern Peru, from a species in the Solanum brevicaule complex."


                                So potatoes not palo food.


                                Alan.

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