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Isn't it irreversible now?

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  • #16
    1



    Sometimes just one person can start a wave of support.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8z7f7a2Pk


    Just have to be in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time (even if everyone thinks you are mad). Giving up won't help anyone...

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

    Comment


    • #17
      1



      I'm loving this thread!!!


      We have pretty much achieved the technology to have the kind of food we demand. If we stop asking for crap, and demand real food for our money... someone will find away to make it available.


      Otherwise, I'll just be raising rabbits and chickens in the back. And I'm serious.


      Whatever it takes....

      Comment


      • #18
        1



        ^ LOL Wth? Nice hahaha


        edit: that was meant for Tarlach's video.


        Thanks everyone for the hope.

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        • #19
          1

          [quote]

          Do you think that we can overturn 10,000 years of agricultural practices? Why don&#39;t we just give in, follow the masses into our inevitable fate: self-destruction? Why do we bother? Please tell me. For the average folk like me and my family, there&#39;s no escape. At this point I just want to have a big fat bowl of oatmeal, peanut butter and bananas and be happy, rather than sitting here and thinking about how deeply screwed mankind is. I know that what you promote is a 100% healthy human diet and I agree 100% with you but it just seems like there&#39;s nothing we can do. Excuse me, I&#39;m just very upset right .now.
          </blockquote>


          Well ...
          [quote]

          it just seems like there&#39;s nothing we can do. Excuse me, I&#39;m just very upset right.
          </blockquote>


          I think you&#39;re upset because your viewpoint is "too extreme" and mistaken.


          You say:
          [quote]

          Do you think that we can overturn 10,000 years of agricultural practices?
          </blockquote>


          Why should "we" need to "overturn 10,000 years of agricultural practices"?


          I take it it&#39;s food you&#39;re talking about, not any other effect of agriculturalism. Now it is, of course, interesting to note what pre-agricultural peoples ate. There are things to be learned from that exercise, too. But there&#39;s no particular need to take what they ate as a prescriptive guide for us, if that&#39;s what you&#39;re thinking - not that every pre-agricultural group ate exactly the same, anyway. Seal oil won&#39;t be a major part of your diet if you&#39;re living in the tropics.


          Looking at what these people ate is what Weston Price did in the 1930s (although note that he didn&#39;t arbitrarily restrict himself to these groups but looked at a number of other traditional societies: Hebridean fisherfolk, Swiss Farmers, African herders). The results were certainly surprising and interesting. His most interesting finding, perhaps, is that among all the traditional societies that he looked at, although they ate a vast variety of different things, they all had quantities of the fat-soluble vitamins (principally A & D) at around TEN times the quantity in the American diet of his day. (The gap would be wider now with the faddish and not-really-scientifically-based low-fat ideology in full cry.) All the peoples in Price&#39;s study who were still eating their traditional diets had superb health and, in particular, strong and near-faultless to faultless teeth and bones and the absence of many degenerative diseases that are common with us. It seems more than plausible that these people&#39;s good health was linked to their nutrient-rich diets and that high consumption of animal fat with its associated vitamin A and D - specially as he found those who&#39;d moved to "modern" diets lost this good health.


          http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html


          So there&#39;s a warning from the past and one we can heed here and now. Nothing to be "overturned" - just something we can learn and something we can do something about relatively easily - for example, by taking cod liver oil, and making sure there is enough butter, eggs, shellfish, and organ meats in one&#39;s diet.


          So then you say:
          [quote]

          Why don&#39;t we just give in, follow the masses into our inevitable fate: self-destruction?
          </blockquote>


          But note that not all people have been unhealthy and near "destruction" since the dawn of agriculture. If they had, you wouldn&#39;t be here now.


          Here&#39;s a telling historical point: myocardial infarction (heart disease) was almost unknown in the U.S. until the 1930s. By the fifties it was the largest single cause of death among adult males. Overturning some of the changes that have occurred in the American diet in the last hundred years would seem to be both more realistic and more achievable.
          [quote]

          Why do we bother? Please tell me.
          </blockquote>


          This is so extreme again. All you have to do is make some simple changes. For example:


          !. Add some foods you may have stopped eating, because they&#39;ve fallen out of fashion and are not so easily obtainable - say, organ meats, perhaps marrow, if you can find a butcher who&#39;ll saw the bones for you. (You don&#39;t have to be a hunter-gatherer to eat it: Queen Victoria ate it on toast every day).


          2. Completely drop some foods, such as pre-packaged foods and any foods containing artificial additives such as aspartame or high fructose corn syrup or agave "nectar".


          3. Minimize your consumption of refined "carbohydrates" such as sugar and white flour.


          4. Prepare your food properly. Learn which foods need to be lightly cooked, which well-cooked, which you should pre-process, for example by lactic-fermenting, to de-activate enzyme inhibitors and other nutrient-uptake blockers in them. To facilitate that buy a good cookbook from someone who both understands cooking techniques and knows about how traditional societies prepared their food and ate:


          http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Traditions-Challenges-Politically-Dictocrats/dp/0967089735/


          And, by the way, the Hebridean fisherfolk visited by Weston Price ate oatmeal porridge, and they had demonstrably superb health. So I don&#39;t know why you&#39;d be panicking about your bowl of porridge. They would, however, have probably made their porridge in advance and allowed it to ferment a little, which makes it more digestible - the procedure&#39;s explained in Nourishing Traditions above. Humans have the guts of carnivores, but they&#39;ve always eaten plant foods. You just have to know how to prepare some plant foods, so that the preparation and cooking causes the pre-digestion that would occur in a ruminant&#39;s stomachs. Hunter-gatherers sometimes skipped that step and ate the partially digested contents of a grazing animal&#39;s stomach after they&#39;d killed it. We don&#39;t have to do that: we just have to eschew the pre-packaged food on the supermarket shelves and learn how to cook.


          Reading about the diet of an actual Stone Age people would be a good exercise for anyone in your position. Note that there was plenty of meat - and, importantly, plenty of animal fat. They also ate plant foods, but they knew how to prepare them. Some they&#39;d roast, some were even soaked in a stream for a matter of days:


          http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/australian_aborigines.html


          We don&#39;t have to eat exactly what they ate. We just need to buy fresh food and apply a similar knowledge and expertise to the foods that are available in our own countries.

          Comment


          • #20
            1



            Thanks, Mick. Excellent reply.

            Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
            Current weight: 199
            Goal: 145

            Comment


            • #21
              1



              Thank you for the extensive reply, Mick. I admit I was a bit too negative. So what it all leads to is that animal fat is indeed better for us than canola oil, eh? Wow. I can&#39;t help but wonder if the food industry knows this and feeds us with lies, or if they too made a mistake. I&#39;m going to stay primal for as long as I can.

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              • #22
                1



                rphlslv,


                I think "staying primal for as long as you can" is the right way to think/go about it. I have a lot of the same concerns as you: how can this planet possibly support 7 billion people all eating primally? (Answer: It can&#39;t.) The logic pathway that flows from that conclusion is pretty scary... but! There&#39;s no reason you, or I, or any of us should sacrifice our own health just because the right way to eat isn&#39;t something that every human being alive can enjoy, given the limits of our planet. Is that elitist? Perhaps. But I don&#39;t care. Eating primally certainly isn&#39;t *hurting* the earth or anyone else (quite the opposite...).

                Check out my blog here.

                Comment


                • #23
                  1



                  Nope, it can&#39;t. But what can be done is to teach people to include more animal fat and to process their grains correctly once more. This will alleviate some of the problem.

                  Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
                  Current weight: 199
                  Goal: 145

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    1



                    processing grains correctly is an interesting comment. I was just studying Nixtamalization yesterday out of curiosity. Traditional cultures who ate corn used that process to make it possible to eat corn. When the Europeans brought corn back to Europe with them, they didn&#39;t learn the process, or feel they needed to learn the process because they had the capability to grind the grain without nixtamalization. The result was a lot of people got pellagra due to a lack of niacin.


                    You know what they say -- those who don&#39;t study history are doomed to repeat it. People like Mark are asking us to question why are we ignoring our history in our life styles? Good will come of it. The other thing they say is that when there is a will, there is a way. We are reaching the tipping point I feel.


                    Keep up the good work!

                    It's grandma, but you can call me sir.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      1



                      Why should we bother? I can&#39;t answer that question for everyone, but I can for me: Because if I don&#39;t, I am a coward; I have given up without trying. If I don&#39;t, I am condemning myself to spend the rest of my life fat, sick, and doomed to die young.


                      Agriculture does indeed seem to be at the root of our problems, but it need not be destroyed to improve the health of the populace. Instead, it should be changed. The industry should become focused toward providing healthy food rather than mass grains.


                      But how can we change it? Some ask this question with a genuine desire to know, but most will fling it about as a way to absolve responsibility, assuming that the presence of the question implies no answer. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although it may not seem like it, in a capitalistic society it truly is the consumer who has the power. We may feel like the victims of the industry fat-cats, mooching off whatever they throw at us, but the truth is that they rely on us for their very survival. If the consumers refuse to participate in their game of self-destruction and inhumanity, it cannot continue. They will be forced to change or die.


                      That is why I bother. That is why I will spend time educating others about the problems with our food supply - talking about the food I eat, linking to videos, whathaveyou. Because the industries aren&#39;t going to do a thing about it. It&#39;s up to the "powerless" consumers.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        1



                        Well said GeriMorgan.


                        Here&#39;s a link to the article where Jared Diamond calls Agriculture the worst mistake in the history of human race.


                        http://tinyurl.com/yvkkfu

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1



                          When I see my family following CW and eating unhealthful foods, I almost feel guilty and selfish for eating healthy. Although I&#39;m eating healthy, my family not eating healthy is a cause for stress for me.

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                          • #28
                            1



                            It seems like my entire country (Brazil) is completely ignorant of this whole anti-grain thing. I tried searching about it in Portuguese and so far I haven&#39;t found a single thing on it besides the common wisdom that grains (especially whole grain! ;]) are healthy... and that fats are the most fattening nutrient. Sigh.

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                            • #29
                              1



                              That must be the new wisdom imported from the West. What was nutrition like in your grandmother&#39;s generation? What did people traditionally eat? I&#39;m from India and people ate traditional foods up until the 80s. It&#39;s only when the country&#39;s economy opened up, that we have had an influx of junk food.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                1



                                Well Brazil IS the West. Southwest. I can&#39;t tell you how our nutrition was prior to 1991 (when I was born), but from my experience back there it was white bread, white rice and beans EVERYDAY. Not necessarily junk food but not healthy either. I had never seen whole grain.


                                My family in particular did own a farm and most of our meat and dairy came from there. Very far from a Primal diet but surely better than the current American one. Nonetheless our top cause of death is heart disease, and diabetes makes into the top ten.


                                Oh, talking about junk food, it pisses me off how McDonald&#39;s found a place in every corner of the world. And everybody&#39;s lovin&#39; it!

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