Comments on: Dear Mark: Ketosis http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/ Serving up health and fitness insights (daily, of course) with a side of irreverence. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:47:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Mark Sisson http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/#comment-92638 Mark Sisson Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:22:06 +0000 http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1196#comment-92638 Zoran, It's probably impossible to compete as a pro athlete - or even a top age-grouper - on only 150 grams carbs a day...unless your events last less than 45 minutes and you train hard for less than 45 a day. I guess I will have to do a post just for the athletes who want to be "primal" but also want to train incessantly long and hard. Maya, zbiggy, I do mean to "carb up slightly" with some healthier choices, like yams, sweet potatoes, berries, fruits etc. Only to 250-300 grams total for that day and only once in a while (not the 1000 grams that some body-builder sites suggest for "mass"). It would mimic a day Grok found a stash of tubers or honey. That little added carb-up simply has your pancreas secreting a bit more insulin for that day, which is OK if you haven't been secreting much for a few weeks. If you are coming off years of insulin insensitivity, it might make sense to stay "primal" for a few months before experimenting with a slightly higher carb day. OTOH, if you were to never "carb-up" you'd be fine - it's just that we want to try to mimic the non-linear, feast-or-famine style of Grok in a more controlled fashion. Zoran,

It’s probably impossible to compete as a pro athlete - or even a top age-grouper - on only 150 grams carbs a day…unless your events last less than 45 minutes and you train hard for less than 45 a day. I guess I will have to do a post just for the athletes who want to be “primal” but also want to train incessantly long and hard.

Maya, zbiggy,

I do mean to “carb up slightly” with some healthier choices, like yams, sweet potatoes, berries, fruits etc. Only to 250-300 grams total for that day and only once in a while (not the 1000 grams that some body-builder sites suggest for “mass”). It would mimic a day Grok found a stash of tubers or honey. That little added carb-up simply has your pancreas secreting a bit more insulin for that day, which is OK if you haven’t been secreting much for a few weeks. If you are coming off years of insulin insensitivity, it might make sense to stay “primal” for a few months before experimenting with a slightly higher carb day. OTOH, if you were to never “carb-up” you’d be fine - it’s just that we want to try to mimic the non-linear, feast-or-famine style of Grok in a more controlled fashion.

]]> By: Anna http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/#comment-92554 Anna Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:13:16 +0000 http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1196#comment-92554 markus, I think you are probably right about that, but hardly anyone eats liver anymore, let alone from animals naturally raised on pasture. Now that I have some non-factory farmed source of liver, I'm trying to cultivate an appreciation for it, abut it isn't happening overnight and especially for beef liver, requires a lot of mustard or other distraction. I was very interested to learn how sugar and Vit C compete for uptake in the cell and that a high sugar/grain diet is probably what caused scurvy on the long distance European exploration ships, not so much lack of Vit C. Those crew sailors lived on a high glucose diet of hard tack (dried flat bread), molasses, jams, and only bits of dried meat/fish - non-perishables mainly and very little fresh food (I think the captain and officers had better fare). Eventually some provisions included barrels of sauerkraut, which would have displaced some of the high glucose foods as well as provided extra Vit C to compete for uptake. And of course limes were added to the British navy's rations. markus,
I think you are probably right about that, but hardly anyone eats liver anymore, let alone from animals naturally raised on pasture. Now that I have some non-factory farmed source of liver, I’m trying to cultivate an appreciation for it, abut it isn’t happening overnight and especially for beef liver, requires a lot of mustard or other distraction.

I was very interested to learn how sugar and Vit C compete for uptake in the cell and that a high sugar/grain diet is probably what caused scurvy on the long distance European exploration ships, not so much lack of Vit C. Those crew sailors lived on a high glucose diet of hard tack (dried flat bread), molasses, jams, and only bits of dried meat/fish - non-perishables mainly and very little fresh food (I think the captain and officers had better fare). Eventually some provisions included barrels of sauerkraut, which would have displaced some of the high glucose foods as well as provided extra Vit C to compete for uptake. And of course limes were added to the British navy’s rations.

]]> By: markus http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/#comment-92483 markus Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:40:02 +0000 http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1196#comment-92483 whole fruit and veg are nice and nutritious - and that's why i eat them - but they are not unnecessary - organic outdoor naturally reared liver, eggs and whole dairy will provide almost all your mineral and vitamin needs in abundance, along with protein and fat. The only issue is vitamin c, and on a low carb diet you only need a fraction of the RDA. so a little fruit goes a long way m whole fruit and veg are nice and nutritious - and that’s why i eat them - but they are not unnecessary - organic outdoor naturally reared liver, eggs and whole dairy will provide almost all your mineral and vitamin needs in abundance, along with protein and fat. The only issue is vitamin c, and on a low carb diet you only need a fraction of the RDA. so a little fruit goes a long way

m

]]> By: Zoran http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/#comment-92457 Zoran Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:49:32 +0000 http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1196#comment-92457 Hey, Mark. All this low-carb and fasting got me thinking: Is it possible to be a pro, or a semi-pro athlete and still run on 100-150g of carbs with a couple of fasts per week? I have done a lot of experiments on myself with switching from high carb to low-carb&high-fat but... I never ever managed to have a good workout followed by a normal recovery with fasting. When I say good workout, I mean 1.5 hours of wrestling or weightlifting or gymnastics. Ofcourse, I have to be partially recovered for the workout the next day. If I don't eat anything 3 hours after my post-workout meal (25g of protein and 70g of carbs from dried berries or pure glucose) I'm a wreck the next day. If I don't eat my breakfast, the same thing happens. I won't even start about the days when I have two workouts. So... How about a little sport-tuned Paleo diet? (Does it then become the Zone diet?) P. S. Sorry about my English, I'm from Croatia. Hey, Mark. All this low-carb and fasting got me thinking: Is it possible to be a pro, or a semi-pro athlete and still run on 100-150g of carbs with a couple of fasts per week? I have done a lot of experiments on myself with switching from high carb to low-carb&high-fat but… I never ever managed to have a good workout followed by a normal recovery with fasting. When I say good workout, I mean 1.5 hours of wrestling or weightlifting or gymnastics. Ofcourse, I have to be partially recovered for the workout the next day. If I don’t eat anything 3 hours after my post-workout meal (25g of protein and 70g of carbs from dried berries or pure glucose) I’m a wreck the next day. If I don’t eat my breakfast, the same thing happens. I won’t even start about the days when I have two workouts.

So… How about a little sport-tuned Paleo diet? (Does it then become the Zone diet?)

P. S. Sorry about my English, I’m from Croatia.

]]> By: Maya http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/#comment-92362 Maya Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:11:55 +0000 http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1196#comment-92362 Hi. Like zbiggy, I'm interested in exactly what you mean by the "carb up day". I am most definitely insulin resistant (since I was 9years old) and I have been low carbing since 2003. I went off-plan for about a year, gained some back, and am now on plan seriously for the duration. I tend to get cravings from eating starch/sugar so I don't allow them at all. Do you mean "carb up" with more low glycemic veggies/fruits or actual starches/sugars? Hi.
Like zbiggy, I’m interested in exactly what you mean by the “carb up day”. I am most definitely insulin resistant (since I was 9years old) and I have been low carbing since 2003. I went off-plan for about a year, gained some back, and am now on plan seriously for the duration. I tend to get cravings from eating starch/sugar so I don’t allow them at all. Do you mean “carb up” with more low glycemic veggies/fruits or actual starches/sugars?

]]> By: zbiggy http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-ketosis/#comment-92357 zbiggy Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:48:30 +0000 http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1196#comment-92357 Great post, I quite don't get this "carb up day once in a while to readjust insulin sensitvity". Sounds tempting for a low carber to be allowed to order a pizza w/ a beer every other week :) but could you just elaborate more on what exactly do I expect of my pancreas to do? thanks in advance :) Great post,
I quite don’t get this “carb up day once in a while to readjust insulin sensitvity”. Sounds tempting for a low carber to be allowed to order a pizza w/ a beer every other week :) but could you just elaborate more on what exactly do I expect of my pancreas to do? thanks in advance :)

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