The Definitive Guide to Dairy
I knew going in this was going to be a tricky one, because dairy, especially raw and/or fermented full-fat dairy, resides in a Primal gray area. The literature, the evolutionary reasoning, and the anecdotal reports all unanimously point to sugar, cereal grains and legumes, processed foods, and industrial vegetable oils as being net negatives on the human metabolic spectrum, but dairy is somewhat different. The other Neolithic foodstuffs we can rule out because the science condemning them is fairly concrete and they weren’t on the menu 20,000 years ago. Heck, they weren’t just off the menu; they were basically unrecognizable as food in the raw state. Dairy, on the other hand, is a relatively recent food chronologically, but it is most assuredly and obviously a viable nutritive source in its raw form. It’s full of highly bioavailable saturated fat, protein, and carbs – in equal portions. You could conceivably survive on milk alone (I wouldn’t recommend it, but you could technically do it; try doing the same with honey or raw millet). Milk is baby fuel. It’s literally meant to spur growth and enable a growing body. Our bodies definitely recognize dairy as food, even foreign bovine dairy. But is it good nutrition?
I don’t know. I’m not sure anyone really does, in fact, which is why I place dairy firmly in Primal limbo. And so, this Definitive Guide to Dairy may come across as being a bit less than definitive, but that’s only because I’m being honest: we simply don’t know whether dairy is suitable for regular human consumption. Whether you include or exclude it from your diet, the decision must be borne from a review of the available literature (Cordain v. Weston Price, for example) with an assessment of the potential risks and benefits, followed by a personal assessment of dairy’s effect on your body (try it, then strictly eliminate it, and note the differences). If you’ve been eating dairy your entire life, your body doesn’t know anything else. In that case, you’ll want to fully drop it for at least a month to get an accurate assessment. Remember – pre-Primal, you probably “felt fine” eating grains and sugar every day. You may have to take the same approach if you really want to figure out what dairy does to you.
You could listen to Dr. Loren Cordain and other strict paleos who adamantly oppose all forms of it. They offer a number of reasons why dairy doesn’t belong in the human diet – mainly lactose intolerance and casein intolerance. Yet, the truth is, lactose (a form of sugar) and casein (a form of protein) are both found in human breast milk, so each of us – and certainly every one of our ancestors – was not only able to tolerate but to thrive for some time during infancy depending on both of these “questionable” molecules. That’s the main thing that makes eliminating dairy a little less clear cut than eliminating grains and legumes. But let’s look a little closer at the intolerance issue.
Lactose Intolerance
The widespread presence of lactose intolerants, who still make up a majority of the world’s inhabitants, is somewhat compelling evidence that maybe dairy isn’t the ideal food many assume it to be. Worldwide, we see that most people aren’t adapted to lactose consumption after age four, when many of us lose the ability to properly digest lactose (actually gene expression for the enzymes involved in lactose digestion are down-regulated). Nevertheless, it would appear that among many people, most of whom can trace ancestry back to herding cultures, some adaptation has taken place that allows them to continue to effectively digest lactose throughout their lives. I would never argue that a lactose intolerant person should drink milk; if it makes you feel like crap, don’t eat it! At the same time, though, if that same person were to complain about getting enough fat in his or her diet, and olive oil and coconut oil weren’t cutting it, I would suggest incorporating some cream, butter, or ghee. Little to (in the case of ghee) no lactose to speak of, and you’d be hard pressed to come up with a better all-purpose cooking fat. Lactose intolerance won’t kill you if you ignore it. It’s actually pretty impossible to ignore rumbling guts, explosive diarrhea, cramps, and bloating, so I doubt the truly lactose intolerant will miss it.
Casein Intolerance
Casein is the primary protein in dairy. It shares structural similarities with gluten, a highly problematic grain protein that can shred the intestinal lining and lead to severe auto-immune issues. Bad, bad stuff, and a big reason why grains are so unhealthy. (And if you’re still not convinced that grains are unhealthy read this (PDF).) Now, paleo opponents of dairy say casein wreaks similar havoc on our guts, and it’s true that gluten intolerance goes hand-in-hand with casein intolerance. But is casein a primary cause of leaky gut, or does it slip in only after gluten has opened the floodgates? Once a floodgate is opened, any protein can enter and cause issues. And after all, casein is the primary protein in human breast milk…
Cancer
Cordain thinks milk leads to cancer, citing a fairly impressive array of studies that seem to suggest a link between milk consumption and various types of the disease. He fingers betacellulin, one of milk’s epidermal growth factors, as the causal agent. In the fetus and suckling newborn, betacellulin helps with growth and tissue differentiation. It’s completely essential for growing infants. In adults, Cordain says it passes cleanly into the gut, completely intact and free to enter circulation, where it can bind to receptors and enhance cancer cell growth. What Cordain doesn’t mention is conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), which is also found in milk fat (especially raw, grass-fed milk, which is never included in any study) and has been shown to possess anti-cancer effects by inhibiting breast cancer cell growth and reducing the activation of insulin-like growth factor receptors (the same receptors Cordain identifies as sensitive to betacellulin). The studies Cordain cites as support of the milk-cancer connection are interesting, but their messages are muddled. As Chris Masterjohn points out, milk proteins mostly appear harmful only when separated from their natural fat. Low fat and skim milk appear to have associations with certain cancers (like prostate), while whole milk appears protective (of colorectal cancer) or neutral. It would be nice to see researchers take a good, long look at full-fat, pastured dairy’s effects on cancer rates. Conventional milk consumption probably isn’t advisable, but the jury’s still out on whether raw, pastured, whole milk is also problematic. We need more data.
Insulin Response
Milk is highly insulinogenic, more than most carbohydrate sources. We’re all aware of the dangers of chronically elevated insulin levels, but that’s also what makes milk such a popular post-workout recovery drink. If you’re insulin sensitive following a tough strength training session, milk’s insulin response can be an effective way to shuttle in protein and glycogen. I don’t do it myself, because I like to fast post-workout (and I don’t like the taste of regular milk) but some people swear by it. This is just speculation, but perhaps the potentially negative effects of milk are negated by the post-workout internal environment (starved muscles, depleted glycogen, insulin-sensitive tissue). Or perhaps those powerlifters are slowly but surely eroding their gut lining. To be on the safe side, maybe limit your milk drinking to immediately post-workout if you’re going to drink it at all.
There isn’t a whole lot of consensus on the subject. People with whom I normally agree on everything regarding nutrition have completely different takes on dairy. Some MDA forum goers report no ill effects, while others complain of joint pain and clogged sinuses from consuming even a single ounce of dairy. More than any other food, dairy seems to be entirely subjective. There is no “one size fits all” approach to it. To be on the safe side and to go “full Primal,” you would technically eliminate it completely, but that may be unnecessary for a relatively large number of people.
In a strange way, this entire blog is just a detailed, science-based map of my own personal journey augmented with anecdotes and experiments from others on similar, but slightly divergent, paths. Much of what I write is founded in science but based on my experiences, and this particular post is no different. When things are gray and murky and the science is unclear and far from definitive, I generally go with anecdote and personal, n=1 experimentation. Personally (and, in a way, this entire blog is just a detailed map of my own personal journey), regular dairy doesn’t generally agree with me. I don’t buy or drink milk. Having said that, I’m a big fan of heavy cream in my coffee and butter in my eggs (and on my steaks and vegetables). I like a nice thick yogurt sauce on lamb, and occasionally either Greek yogurt or fresh whipped cream with berries for dessert. I even have a bit of artisan cheese once in a while. It works for me. I don’t get cramps or gas, and I don’t get leaky gut symptoms from casein alone (gluten is another thing altogether). I’d say, on average, I consume at least one dairy item each day (usually butter), but that’s not a hard and fast rule.
As I mentioned in my book, I think there’s a continuum, a cascading scale of suitability when it comes to dairy. It’s not all created equal.
Raw, fermented, full-fat dairy is probably best.
Tons of traditional, fairly disease-free groups lived with dairy (just as tons of traditional, fairly disease-free groups lived without it), and they all included some form of fermented or cultured product. Cultured butter, yogurt, kefir, clotted milk, cheese – these are traditional ways of increasing shelf life, improving digestibility, and incorporating beneficial probiotics into the gut. Fermentation takes care of most of the lactose, and some posit that it may even positively alter the structure, function, and safety of casein.
Raw, high-fat dairy is next.
Raw butter and cream are minimally processed sources of good saturated fat. They’re free of most lactose and casein, and let’s face it: butter and cream just make everything taste better. If it’s essentially just pure, raw animal fat from grass-fed animals, without offensive levels of milk proteins and sugars, what’s not to enjoy? Ghee is another good choice, and though it technically isn’t raw, it is pure animal fat without a trace of lactose or casein.
Then raw milk.
I don’t advise regular consumption of raw milk, mind you, but if you can tolerate it (no stomach upset, no bloating, no gas, no intestinal issues) an occasional glass is probably OK as a sensible vice. Some farms will even supplement their raw milk with colostrum (the extra rich, “first run” milk that provides even more vitamins and nutrients), resulting in a lower-carb, higher-fat, higher-protein product. Look for that stuff if you’re thinking of buying raw milk.
Organic, hormone and antibiotic-free dairy (full fat, of course).
Bottom line: don’t consume non-organic dairy if you can help it. Avoid homogenized milk if you can, and try not to purchase pasteurized milk (organic or not) on a regular basis. If you’re out getting coffee or something, the regular half and half or heavy cream are fine, and Kerrygold makes a great pastured, pasteurized butter that’s available nationwide.
Other things to consider:
A2 Milk versus A1 Milk
Milk proteins are made up of different beta-caseins, which vary between cow breeds. There are two main categories of beta-casein: A1 and A2, each with different effects. A1 cows (Holsteins and Friesians) produce A1 beta-caseins, which release an opioid-like chemical upon digestion. This chemical, called beta-casomorphin-7 (BCM7), is a protein fragment that figures into the joint pains, digestive issues, and leaky gut symptoms that detractors typically blame on just casein. A2 cows (Jerseys and Gurnseys), on the other hand, produce A2 beta-casein, which has been vindicated. Raw, pastured milk tends to come from Jersey and Gurnsey cows; Holsteins and Friesians produce far more milk and so are used by conventional, factory dairy farmers. The Masai, for example, have A2 cattle.
Goat
Goat dairy is another option, with more fat (that’s never homogenized, even when pasteurized), less casein, less lactose, and fewer digestive issues. Structurally and nutritionally, goat milk is one of the closer corollaries to human breast milk, making it arguably more suitable for human consumption than cow’s milk.
In the end, is there a definitive stamp of Primal approval, or Primal disapproval? I just can’t go either way. Sometimes, the correct path is to admit that you simply don’t know. You can read all the blogs you want, pour over every comment, follow every link, and pontificate about every hunter-gatherer group on the planet, but if you don’t try things out for yourself – either by trying certain dairy products or by eliminating them and noting the effects – it’s all just speculation and hearsay. In the murky, milky world of dairy, it’s up to you to decide your ideal path.
Tell me about your experiences. Is dairy part of your Primal diet? If so, what (butter, milk, yogurt, cheese, etc.) and how much?
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
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I love milk. Been drinking it all my life. Never had any problems.
*knocks on wood*
I do want to try goat milk though.
All I can say is that I drank milk all my life,then dropped it from my diet 4 months ago and lost 40 pounds
All I can say is that I wore shorts today instead of pants and it rained.
Lolol best reply ever.
if that is the ONLY thing you changed you got a point…otherwise, not so much.
My guess is that you changed a whole lot of things about your lifestyle at or around that time.
I was not a milk drinker during my childhood and still do not drink it by itself but I do use it for cooking, protein shakes, exc. I do LOVE cheese though. What I find interesting is that I had a food allergy test (IgG) and found that I’m allergic to gluten but not casein. I find that really odd especially if they do in fact go hand in hand. My opinion is…if you like it and your body can process it then enjoy it! I would only do organic though.
I haven’t had any type of milk in years (milk, not all dairy products). No other animal on earth that I know of drinks the milk of another animal as a regular practice, so why should we?
No other animal kills a cow cuts him up and throws him on the grill, and ejoys him while watching a good college football game either, what is your point?
Also if you offer cows milk to dogs, cats, probably any animal they would drink it. Just a little tough to harvest what with the paws and such.
They would if they had thumbs
My point is I don’t think it’s natural to drink another animal’s milk.
My cat Lundi adores dairy cream. I won’t give her the regular milk because the lactose would bother her stomach, but cream does no harm and she typically gets a small amount for breakfast. It seems to benefit her coat, too. She has the least dandruff of any of the cats and we have dry winters here.
But yeah… saying “no other animal does this” is hardly reason for us not to do it. There are indigenous traditional tribes who consume milk; the Maasai come immediately to mind. Have you seen a traditional Maasai warrior? Tall, slender, strong, with gorgeous teeth. Good skull development throughout childhood is a sign the person grew up well-nourished.
It’s a good enough reason for me
It just seems a bit unnatural and just my personal opinion/taste. It’s mine – don’t take that away from me.
That is not true. Cats drink cow milk anytime they can get it. Ask any farmer who stopped doing dairy, they will tell you that the cats went from two litters of kittens a year to one when they were unable to sneak milk.
What if a pack of wolves took down a cow or something that was laden with milk?
My guess is they would easily lap up the milk just like theyd devour everything else.
That’s because they can’t. Put a bowl of milk in front of a dog or cat and watch them go at it like there’s no tomorrow.
Or any animal, really. Why do rats and mice like cheese so much? My guess would be because dairy products have something of a universal appeal, at least to mammals.
What about yoghurt? I adore FAGE’s 10% fat Greek style [it's strained].
Then I could move on to Alpro soy yoghurt, not dairy, not primal but just 2.8gm carbs per 100gm.
Advice please! Yoghurt is my weakness…
Please keep in mind that soy products can be bad news.
1.Soy is the most sprayed on crop, so you get a large pesticide load. Soy is processed in Aluminum vats, so that can add to toxicity.
2. Soy milk contains large quantities of phyto-estrogens.
3. Slows down thyroid
4. Hemaglutinin is found in soybeans. This compound is known to make red blood cells aggregate, therefore increasing your cardiovascular load
5. Soy based infant formulas are linked to ADD. They contain 80 times more manganese than breast milk. Too much manganese content is linked to neurotoxicity
6. … and 85% of soy harvest is GMO
Most soy is poison.. don’t do it to yourself
Soy is highly allergenic to children. If you are going to introduce it into a child’s diet, it must be the very last food you introduce. Soy has got to be one of the worst substitutes for breast milk.
Yogurt and Kefir are a part of the “Raw, fermented, full-fat dairy” that Mark advocates as the best. Fage is great, but go for the full-fat variety.
Mark, thanks for the detailed info.
I recently experimented with RAW, organic, grass fed whole milk for 2 weeks (about 2 gallons a week)and it did not work for me. I could instantly feel abdominal bloating and I started looking ’softer’ in the mirror.
I used the the same milk to create some home made yogurt and that seems to work well. In fact, it tastes and smells so much better than pasturized milk yogurt.
The glycemic load for whole milk seems low (around 3), why do you think it is insulinogenic?
For anyone interested in pasture raised, organic, grass fed RAW milk products, ‘Organic Pastures’ in CA sells them.
I’ve read anecdotal evidence that the Dutch population is the tallest among the nations and also consume the most milk. But, of course, correlation is not causation.
70% of the milk consumption in the world is goat milk. Mongolia is a milk based food country but they drink sheep and mare’s milk. These animals graze on grass , not grains. In my opinion thats the difference in healthy milk consumption. People experiencing difficulty with milk are experiencing difficulty with the grain products fed factory cows.
I’ve had fermented Mare’s milk sold out of a yurt in Kyrgyzstan. It tastes TERRIBLE.
I’ve the the Finnish “squeaky cheese”… it tastes like a barn smells. Thumbs Down.
I believe Kurt Harris from http://www.paleonu.com/ recommends full-fat dairy as a way of making low-carb more viable.
If you drop the carbs, calories have to come from somewhere, and most of us can’t have 3 steaks a day.
So another benefit of cream/butter, is that they are a cheap, easy way to fill the void that low-carb creates.
Whatever theoretical harm full-fat dairy may have is probably negated — and then some — by the benefit of dropping carbs.
I add milk to my coffee. I was a big fan of cookies and milk, as well as a big bowl of cereal in the morning, but my conversion to the PB made that disappear!
I always had more sinus problems when I drank a lot of milk. When I went to a naturopathic doctor, she told me that I was allergic to milk. So I stopped using regular milk for cereal and used soy milk instead (I’m off the soy now, especially since I don’t eat cereal anymore) and my seasonal allergies definitely improved. I used to get a bad sinus infection when I had too much ice cream. So, I think it’s plausible to be allergic to milk, but I also know that milk is mucilaginous(produces mucus). More recently, I had some cheese that made me more stuffy where as before cheese usually didn’t do that to me. I just have to listen to my body.
I don’t drink milk very often, but if I do I only buy unprocessed milk from a local farmer.
Same here, local A2 small family farmer, cows are outdoors all day every day all year. They’re the most beautiful healthy cows I’ve seen and this milk is the most delicious…of cow milk. I haven’t tried mare, yak etc. Oops, did I say that was for me? It’s pet milk. It’s not insta-chilled. My hamsters eat unsalted cheese and unsalted butter. My cats drink kefir, cream, eat butter and cheese.
raw goat milk is ambrosia. but make sure the breed from which it comes is a fatty producer.
…from personal experience though, drinking milk before a hike crashes my blood sugar to the point of seeing spots and experiencing sweaty shakes.
some people have to be careful with dairy.
I found one of the best ways to incorporate dairy into the primal lifestyle is to have a glass of kefir mixed with my favorite protein powder for a post Lift Heavy Things workout. Gives me a nice shot of protein but without the carbs from lactose and gives me some daily probiotic benefits. And if I understand it right the calories from the converted lactose are alcohols which don’t create the huge insulin response of carbs.
At one point in my food journey I really wondered why I didn’t feel better since I was not eating grains or sweets. Then I eliminated dairy and my sinus problems cleared up and I felt overall much better. I do miss the cheese, but even goat cheese causes sinus congestion for me. I had a hard time giving up half and half in my tea, but I’m happy now using almond milk for that purpose.
Watch out, every commercially produced almond milk I’ve seen has tapioca in it…a no-no for paleo diets. Maybe you make your own almond milk?
My father had horrible mucus with milk and switched to A2 milk as it doesn’t induce mucus.
Amazingly he is completely mucus free with A2
As a huge fan of raw milk, I appreciate your willingness to see both sides of the issue, Mark. I love dairy, and I truly don’t believe it’s anything but healthy for me personally. But that’s just my experience. I do firmly believe that if you’re going to drink milk, choose milk products like you mention above: organic, raw, fermented, always full-fat etc.
But I also understand some people just don’t have a high tolerance for dairy. Sometimes this is temporary, and if they remove dairy and take other action to heal their gut they may regain their lactose/casein tolerance. On the other hand, some people will never tolerate or even like dairy. Weston A. Price certainly studied groups with diets based almost entirely on dairy and those with diets that included little or no dairy. So health can most certainly be found with or without dairy.
One point I have to give raw dairy is that it makes it easy to consume raw animal products in a society that isn’t so crazy about eating raw meat. This opens up a world of nutrients that may not be otherwise discovered.
I agree, i’m not a raw meat fan, i try to not overcook steaks and such. I think raw milk helps make up for alot of the good things we burn with fire.
It not accurate to suggest that bovine casein proteins are equivalent to human casein proteins. Less than half of the amino acids are conserved between the human and bovine caseins.
Milk protein intolerant children may be bovine whey-intolerant, bovine casein-intolerant, or both. A cow’s milk free diet for mom will eliminate symptoms in these babies, but they continue to consume human caseins from breastmilk without discomfort.
“…especially raw, grass-fed milk, which is never included in any study”
In which case, throw that study out. Grocery store milk and raw milk from pastured animals is not the same thing.
It seems like every single study done since the 1800’s only applies to pasteurized dairy and cooked meat. It drives me crazy. Raw milk has the enzymes in it naturally that break down the lactose. My mother is lactose intolerant and drinks it with no problem. Whenever someone says anything about the nutrition in dairy or meat it should be disregarded until it is proven to apply to raw.
What about GREEK YOGURT (Greek Gods-Plain Whole Milk)? I realize it is dairy, but in your opinion does the process of adding live cultures to yield yogurt make the dairy product more user friendly?
it falls under fermented which mark put on the top of the list
I apologise for wandering vaguely off-topic with regards to protein; but what’s the consensus on whey protein powders?
As opposed to say pea protein which my vegan friend consumes?
Whey protein can be great if it is:
1. COLD processed
2. not ion excanged
3. comes from pesticide free, grass fed cows milk
1,2 ensures that the protein retains fragile immunoglobulins and retain it’s natural strucure.
It’s mostly junk that you find in most stores.
Ive been looking into this a bit. Can you reccomend any brands/sources that meet these criteria??
The best price I’ve found on this type of protein is at Swanson Vitamins, called Ori Hofmekler’s Vanilla Whey Protein Powder. Cold-processed and from grass-fed cows, very few ingredients, no crazy sweeteners or anything.
There are only a few brands out there like this, but that one’s the most economical. Whether or not it’s the best, I’m not sure.
You can buy Ori’s whey protien directly from his ‘warriordiet’ website. I personally use it post workout and love it, vanilla is the best.
what powder do you use that isnt cold pressed or ion exchanged?
I stopped drinking milk when I was very young, but have periodically included it (and yogurt) in varying quantities at times, including right now.
Without fail, I have noticed my immune system is dramatically weaker during the times when I drink milk (note: I have been eating cheese forever with no effect). For me, there has to be a good reason to include milk because I end up having to deal with colds and flus that I wouldn’t get otherwise.
I have also been drinking since childhood. And somehow I notice that if I eat yogurt early in the morning, I have a tendency to catch cold.
I guess it does do something bad for me. I have stopped getting much milk after realizing it.
Raw milk in some states is hard to come by. However, if you are interested in getting raw, untouched milk, ask the farmer if they will sell you some for your dog. I have a farmer near me that is organic, does not homogenize, but does pasteurize. To get around this he sells me the unpasteurized raw milk ‘for my dogs’ or basically not for human consumption. Saves him a step, covers his butt, and I get pure deliciousness.
On another note, I do plan on going a month or more without milk soon to see how things change. So while I drink milk now, I may not in the future depending on the results.
I’ve been a heavy consumer of dairy my whole life until three weeks ago when I decided to test how I felt without it. So far–no different. I’m going to go six weeks without it for a proper test, but I am looking forward to adding heavy cream back into my coffee if I see no differences
All I’ve my ancestry traces back to herding cultures in northern europe, so perhaps (and hopefully for my coffee’s sake) I’m well adapted to it.
Mark, I just quit my zillion-cans-a-day Diet Coke habit, because of the aspartame.
I replaced it with chocolate milk, but I think I do have sensitivity to casein, so I guess I’ll have to give up the milk.
But coffee and tea give me chest pains and a rapid heartbeat, which at times have sent me to the emergency room.
And I get bottled water delivered, but the company that delivers it says they don’t know if the bottles have BPA.
I need a beer.
But beer tastes disgusting.
Dang it, Mark, what can I do?
I gave up diet mountain dew and have been craving sweets like a maniac! I never used to crave sweets when i was drinking diet dew! I just drank a mountain dew throwback…real sugar. Now I dont want to get hooked on this crap! I need a beer …but then 1 will turn into 12…..guess I’ll stick to water! Maybe I can add a little sugar to my water.
Have a beer or two. It isn’t going to kill you. And may even help to lower your stress levels a bit. Is wine better? Yes. Is whiskey a better alternative? Sure. But, if you like beer, have a beer or two every once in awhile. If you’re doing everything right 90%-95% of the time your indulgence is completely acceptable.
Aaron, i used to be a major sugar fiend, couple of years ago i started drinking half a fresh lemon in a 750ml bottle couple of times a day, it has done wonders for my health… it even cured my hayfever… plus the sugary drinks crave only returns after a major night out where yes 1 beer does turn in a fair bit more… also on a side not i have a half a glass of luke of warm water with half a fresh lemon juice to kick start the system and it also does great for hangovers… the energy oh the energy dude!
Wine? Bourbon? Buy a Brita, filter your tap water, and pour it into a glass that’s made out of . . . well glass. Need H2O on the go? Buy an aluminum water bottle.
How about a home brewed lemonade, made with the tap water possibly filtered in a plastic container
.
I would love more information on Whey protein too. I’ve been using a goat whey protein powder for some time post workout. I’m moving into primal eating and I am conflicted on using it or not.
Where do you get your goat whey from?
I get it from bodybuilding.com
I don’t drink milk, but I love cheese.
I’d love to know more about cheese. I can live without drinking milk, but I love gorgonzola cheese on my salads with walnuts and fruits, and I love really good cheddar cheese on my eggs with spinach. Is this legally primal??????
Where can I get unsalted grassfed raw gorgonzola? What type of animal is that from? Sheep?
Scandinavian girl here
- and I just love my full fat jersey milk organic and grasfed- sadly it is hard to get raw milk that would be my first option.’
Seriously, colostrum? As someone who grew up on a goat farm & drank quite a bit of the milk, I wouldn’t touch colostrum with a ten foot pole. It’s really quite important that the kids not get it after a week or so; are you sure it’s okay for human consumption?
It used to be sold fresh or frozen (fluid) grassfed unhomogenized up till about a year ago under FDA authorization as a medicine for children rare medical conditions. It became illegal, as I understand it; because people were getting it and using it in place of milk.
Mark,
I love milk in the morning. It fills me up and satisfies me so I’m not hungry soon after. I recently stopped drinking it and have found that I don’t feel as good and am always hungry. Note: when I did drink milk it was in the morning and post-workout and occasionally at night. All the other dairy products (yogurt, butter, cheese, cream) work fine with me…as long as their full fat and raw. I can’t stand the low fat products.
Once I get my hands on some more raw milk I’m going to start drinking it again and see how it goes. Greek yogurt for breakfast instead of milk though, with some fruit
Should I let you know how it goes? just for some more info and another experience.
Of course, those traditional dairy societies that you mention? Raw milk clabbers fairly quickly; it hasn’t had the good bugs cooked out of it. So it must have been pretty uncommon for those traditional peoples to drink regular milk. It was probably almost always fermented. So, then, the presence or absence of lactose intolerance becomes pretty much a non-issue. The only groups I’ve heard of that have developed a gene for lactose tolerance are the Maasai and some Scandinavian group or another–but there are more traditionally dairy-consuming groups than those.
Coconut oil may not always be a relatively inexpensive form of good fat available to, say, northern-latitude primals and paleos. And if y’all are eating grass-fed meat then by definition you are eating lower-fat meat. But you still need fat in your diet. If you’re not big on organ meats, only some of which are high-fat to begin with, it becomes incumbent to find other animal sources. Lard is cool, I guess, but whether it’s paleo is questionable (I guess for some ethnic groups it is), and have you read the label on a can of lard lately? It’s mostly monounsaturated fat. I’ve seen estimates that we should be getting at least half our fat intake as saturated (this from Mary Enig and like-minded experts). I don’t know if the same is true for tallow, but if it is, they’re pretty much out of the running as anything but cooking fats. For an *eating* fat you’d want butter, which is almost all saturated. So there is a use for dairy in the average healthy, grass-fed/finished meat-based primal diet, at least as matters stand now.
Of course if people ever get around to doing what people used to do when they hunted, favoring older animals with greater fat stores rather than younger animals for their alleged greater “tenderness”… then that may be another matter again.
Tallow is quite high in saturated fats, as opposed to lard, which is quite soft at room temperatures and even when refrigerated.
About buying lard in stores: don’t. Really, don’t buy lard unless you’re buying it direct from someone who raises pigs. Most lard in stores is supplemented with partially hydrogenated oils (trans fats)to firm it up and make it last longer. It’s a disaster from a health perspective.
The right way to get lard: buy pork back fat from an ethnic grocery and render it yourself. Have a few glass jars or tupperware containers to store it in. In the freezer with an airtight seal, lard will keep for a year. If you find that lard is too soft for your cooking, you can mix it with tallow to make a fat that’s just as firm as you like. When buying cow fat for tallow, you want white kidney fat, instead of back fat. If the fat going into the tallow isn’t white, it will bring a flavor to the fat that will color all of your foods.
I find that 1 part tallow to 2 parts lard makes a cooking fat with the exact same consistency as butter. I normally go 1:3 tallow:lard so that it’s a little softer right out of the fridge.
Actually, the lard itself (or rather the polyunsaturated fats in lard) is hydrogenated. It’s quite a tragedy, really, ruining a great tasting, versatile, and nutritious fat like that. Of course, nobody really makes a fuss about it because in our society lard is considered so unhealthy that it’s practically a swear word, so who cares if you convert 10% of it to trans fats, right? Same thing happens to coconut and palm oil, too (although most upscale stores sell good quality tropical oils now.)
Personally, I like the flavor of yellow tallow, but that may just be because most of what I cook are beef dishes. It’s also got more beta carotene (hence the coloring), which signifies greater fat-soluble vitamin content – a good thing, in my book.
I’ve read the yellow is only from older females. That maybe from birthing so many calves their livers stop converting the beta-carotene into Vitamin A.
Some Whole Foods Markets also sell the pork fat back, big slabs of it next to the meat couter. Kidney suet fat is dense and dry. Bovine back fat is moist and kind of softer like bacon or avocado.
Some Whole Foods Markets also sell the pork fat back, big slabs of it next to the meat counter. Kidney suet fat is dense and dry. Bovine back fat is moist and kind of softer like bacon or avocado.
Tallow comes from suet (heart, kidney etc). It is so highly saturated, I don’t think there is a more saturated fat.
From grassfed animals you need older animals for back fat. It is less saturated. Marrow is even less saturated.
Marbelization by grain feeding occurs fast. I doubt the animals feel well or would live very long if they were allowed to. I like the say “you are what you eat”. I don’t recommend grainfed for health. Grain-feed the animals the last two weeks of their lives I read is a guarantee of incubating dangerous varieties of e-coli.
Mark,
The question you pose – “does Casein cause leaky gut or does a gluten-induced leacky gut just let casein through?” – reminds me of something I read, but cannot remember where, which was that improving gut health (cutting sugar etc) can increase the production of lactase in the gut and therefore improve lactose tolerance. Both of these points could support the notion that our intolerance of dairy is to a large extent self-inflicted by the composition of the rest of our diet.
I don’t have any glaring sensitivies to dairy so I gave it up as an experiemnt. When I gave it up last summer I was most shocked to see how my recovery times diminished after work outs. I have also had my healthiest winter ever so far (knock on wood) and have noticed that my skin looks and feels way better. I wouldn’t make a big deal out of being dairy-free if I was at someone’s home and they had made me a meal, but I am definitely loving it for my day-to-day sense of well-being.
Taking milk out of my diet was practically miraculous. No more stomach cramps, no more eczema. I can’t believe I drank it all those years…of course, I was raised by a dr. dad totally sold on CW, so I had non-fat, pasteurized, industrial milk. So, the worst of the worst.
I do sometimes give my own kids some raw whole fat milk. And pastured whole-milk yogurt is a pretty regular part of our diet, with no ill effect, as is ghee that I make.
All mammals will go bonkers for milk at any age. This is primal instinct, because milk is the ultimate source of mammalian sustenance. It’s got everything in it baby! What intelligent lifeform would turn up a nose to such a thing? THAT would make us an exception in comparison to all other mammals on the planet, not drinking it when it’s available. If you really want to be primal, then rely on your instincts, not some philisophical argument about whether or not it’s an appropriate food.
Great! So if my instincts tell me to eat sugar all day, that’ll be primal too?
Good point. Just because we have access to something doesn’t mean it’s good for us. Antifreeze smells super yummy to a lot of mammals!
Are you really comparing milk to antifreeze? Wow.
That reminds me of how my father-in-law was mixing some araldite (glue) one day and all of a sudden he had 4 anteaters at his feet. The smell of the araldite had attracted them. But I’m sure the araldite is not good for them
My hamsters and cats love A2 fermented raw grass grazed fresh dairy and don’t like sweets.
On average I have 250g of sheep’s milk yogurt, 1/2 a cup of goat’s milk and about 3oz of cheese every day. Takes care of my calcium requirements and, even with veggies and salad, I eat only about 50g of carbs per day. Dairy really is my favourite food and has no discernible ill-effects on me.
I gave up dairy almost 8 years ago. I immediately noticed how much better I felt without it and how much more quickly I recovered after workouts, not to mention not getting even a sniffle since. But, I also discovered about 5 years ago that I’m allergic to a protein in it, so that could be why.
I’ve found it’s easy enough to substitute coconut products for most milk products anyways.
What about sheep’s dairy?
Where are sheep dairy (beside yogurt) and mutton available? Why don’t I see these things more on these blogs etc? I know you are paleo and sheep are herded so they don’t count, but I want to know. They’re A2 too, which is good for many with allergies.
Mark,
What a great post! You have thought of everything, even the A1 vs A2 issue, that’s kind of obscure still.
I love your grounded, real approach and I completely agree with you about this being an experiential issue.
I get raw, pasture milk but virtually never drink it as such. I make yogurt and kefir and rarely use some in a recipe.
I get raw heavy cream and creme fraiche from the same farmer and they have proved beneficial, especially for my husband, who never seems to intake enough calories.
And I eat some cheese. Mostly raw. As I’ve slowly faced out of eating grains and beans, I’ve found cheese to be helpful… probably just a transition food.
I thought I was lactose-intolerant for years. Then I gave up gluten grains and guess what, I had no trouble with dairy (or many other foods) any more. It would be hard for me to give up dairy because I don’t like meat very much and yogurt is a mainstay for getting protein.
Have to say it’s a tough transition from vegetarian (which I was for years) to paleo! Worth it, but not easy!
I would be interested in knowing exactly what is wrong with pasteurized, homogenized milk.
Do you have several years to learn, Joseph? There’s just so many negative details about it. Do you drink that stuff a lot?
Mark,
Thanks for your honest blog on dairy. Maybe a question for another post, but what happens with the milk when it is fermented?
Maybe just a little bit off topic, but does anybody know how to make your own full fat greed yoghurt (fage total style)? A recipe would be great. A google search only has ideas on the low fat kinds
thanks!
http://thenourishedlife.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-version-of-easy-homemade-raw-milk.html
Then strain it!
Keep the whey for fermenting stff!
Okay as for your Q about when milk is fermented…
Its just the lactic acid bacteria (Lactobacillus spp.) changing the milk sugar (lactose) into lactic acid. SO fermented milk products have a tang (yogurt, sour cream, cheese, buttermilk) from the acid.
That was a lot of parentheses. Sorry, lol.
With apologies to Harpo’s vegan friend, but “pea protein”??? Is there really such a thing? That’s hilarious! Which brings me to wonder, how on Earth, Harpo, did you manage to become friends with a vegan? Did you lie about your primal existence? : )
Jokes aside, I think any whey or protein powders most likely do more harm than good. They are man-made foods which require advanced technology to produce, so the denaturization of proteins, fats and cholesterol are most likely destructive to the gut. Stick with real food. Milk is real food as long as all its fat is present. If you can’t tolerate it, eat more eggs and meat. Definitely skip the pea protein!
Cold processed whey from grass fed cows can be a good protein supplement, especially for athletes and weight training individuals.
For all fermentation questions see this:
The Definitive Guide to Fermented Foods
Mark,
Thanks! I should have known you already adressed this in a previous post…
I take in a lot of Dairy daily (primarily whole, organic milk, heavy cream, cheese, and greek yogurt)
I have difficulty getting in enough calories as it is – I’d hate to see where I was without dairy in my diet.
“In the murky, milky world of dairy…” Tee hee… Thanks for this Mark. Great post. I use raw cream, cultured butter, raw butter, and raw cheese. I also make my own creme fraise and sometimes yogurt.
I function really well on raw, full-fat dairy from pastured animals.
And I’m a particular fan of fermented dairy: sour cream, yogurt, kefir, cheese!
Those are definitely safer for the average person to eat.
A TIP: When I can’t get my hands on raw milk, I don’t buy organic pastuerized milk at the store. I buy organic CREAM and water it down. Tastes like milk, but digests a WHOLE lot easier than pasteurized organic milk does.
(Maybe that’ll help some of your readers out.)
All the best,
~KristenM
(AKA FoodRenegade)
Watered-down cream tastes nothing like milk. It tastes like…. watered-down cream.
The sugar and protein in milk definitely impart a flavor that is lost by simply drinking the milkfat. (Not that I have a problem with drinking watered-down cream, mind you.)
I’ve been completely off milk (raw or otherwise) for years now, and don’t miss it. On rare occasion, I’ll have some cream in my coffee (although I hear coconut milk is so much tastier). I also eat some full fat Fage about once or twice month.
The only dairy I get quite a bit of is cheese… and when I say quite a bit, I mean, I eat it every day, and always have (even pre-Primal). I’ve been meaning to experiment with a cheese-free existence, but a world without cheese might be a world I don’t want to live in. Of course, I think I said that about sourdough bread at one point as well…
Oh… and butter! I cook with butter nightly. Man, I love me some butter. I also love the faces my friends make when they see how much I use in the dinners I make them.
Silly non-Groks!
Please keep in mind that it’s important to buy organic butter. It can be one of the most chemical laden food if it’s not organic.
Thanks! Yeah, we are a strictly organic household.
My history with dairy has been a weird adventure. At about age 40, for some unknown reason, I noticed my hips felt creaky when I walked, but only periodically. This went on for about 10 years until I decided to include a lot of yogurt in my diet.
Soon I could hardly walk because of the pain and tightness in my hips. After some intensive research and experimentation I figured out it was the yogurt causing the problem.
7 years later I started having the hip problems again so cut out all dairy and it cleared up for the most part.
Enter MarksDailyApple. After about a year of no grains my hip pain totally cleared up. Recently, I cautiously ate some raw organic chedder cheese. No problem. I have since eaten other cheeses and still no problem. Haven’t tried yogurt yet.
A few other things….while on my no dairy phase, I learned that most people do not understand that cheese and butter is dairy. I found that surprising.
Also, a number of years ago I bought an African wood bowl that was used for storing some sort of fermented milk product. This bowl really stinks and no matter what I have tried, the smell just won’t go away. I don’t know why I have included this last bit of info…maybe it is a warning of some sort.
What about rice milk? Is that acceptable?
Rice milk is highly processed rice.
Since rice is a grain, it’s not very primal. White rice is a highly starchy grain and seems to lack most of the antinutrients of other grains and so may be the least offensive of grains.
But, it’s a grain. And highly processed.
I used to drink rice milk some time ago when I gave up dairy experimentally. To presume to answer your question: Rice is a grain, so definitely NOT acceptable in the Primal/paleo scheme of things
I dig dairy. The cavefamily goes through 4-5 gallons of non homogenized cream-top milk a week. I’ve been trying to cut back, and convince the fam too as well but it’s been a slow process because we love it… a lot.
I drank skim milk for years growing up (thanks Mom) and until this last summer I had been drinking 1 or 2% for about 10 years. I’ve never noticed any problems but like Mark said, I’ve never not had a large amount of dairy in my diet so I need to do some testing. That’s a good idea for some future blog posts I think.
Fage yogurt, lots of goat cheese, grass fed cream for my coffee. I no longer drink milk- not ready for raw yet. But goat cheese and how its made fits the bill for me.
The consumption of dairy is one of the most subjective eating experiences partly because it is a pure representation of the water and earth body constitution (Kapha) as explained in Ayurveda. If anybody consumes dairy and already has an aggravated Kapha then milk will surely cause discomfort and other GI problems.
I drink a glass of whole milk a day or with my protein shakes for the natural fat and protein.
Well before I discovered the Primal diet, I had horrific colitis from eating the usual glop, and in my blind experimentation I discovered that cow’s-milk kefir was almost a total cure for the many symptoms. Some nights I had nothing but a bottle of kefir for dinner. I suspect my intestinal microbiome was thoroughly rebalanced for the better. Immediately I started losing fat and gaining energy, kicking off a chain reaction that ultimately led me to the Primal Blueprint.
So I would especially recommend kefir to milk-tolerant people who are taking their first steps toward Primal health. These days I prefer coconut-milk kefir (with nuts and meat for protein), but the flavored cow’s-milk kefir was a crucial initial bridge to health for a carb junkie on his last legs like me.
This might sound silly, but does anyone else here think there might be a relationship between those who are allergic to other animals (cats dogs, etc) and animal milk (goat/sheep/cow)?
I have never heard of a correlation between the two before, but I have to live with it everyday. I have non-IgE mediated cow milk allergy and I am allergic to dogs, cats, horses and rabbits.
For those that only choose pasture raised meats, do you strive for the same standards with dairy? This was published 2 days ago – good timing!
http://www.alternet.org/food/145378/got_milk_a_disturbing_look_at_the_dairy_industry
I def do! I get raw milk and cream. I make yogurt and kefir most of the time but sometimes I buy it. I get raw cheese as well, most of the time. I would say I am on a 80/20 with dairy as well…
Looking into making my own sour cream on a regular basis. I sued to but not of late.
Solid! I’ve been looking for a thorough guide to dairy and the way it fits in Paleo / Primal diets for quite some time now.
My understanding is that dairy is a more recent addition to our diets than grains or legumes (although not by much), and presumably, we have had less time for our bodies to acclimate to it. That being said, the consensus around these parts is that our diets are better off with dairy than with the others.
Perhaps it’s true. Northern Europeans became tolerant of lactose in rather short order. Why couldn’t dairy be one of those foods that we may not be optimally evolved to consume, yet still by pure dumb luck offer a net benefit to our health?
I am 100% Scandinavian and doubt that I am lactose intolerant. That being said, I rarely drink a glass of milk. I am quite a cheese fiend though, and will eat yogurt with fruit on occasion.
I love, love, love milk and have always drank a lot of it. I have it on my cereal in the morning, as well as a glass with dinner and likely a glass with a snack as well.
Problem is, I’ve begun to think recently that it does give me gas. I notice that I tend to burp a lot more when I have ice cream especially.
But since milk is one of the three beverages I drink (I only ever drink water, milk and coffee) – I’m a little scared to give it up! Plus – doesn’t this put me in danger of not getting enough calcium?
Lactose intolerance is dose-dependent, so if you cut back your milk consumption a bit the gas problem may improve. Most people get enough calcium but have low vitamin D levels, which impairs the body’s ability to utilize calcium. A normal 25-OH vitamin D level is 30ng/ml, but an optimal level may be 50 or more. 2000-8000IU of vitamin D3 supplements per day may be needed to optimize vitamin D levels.
Cheers,
I believe DR Hollick suggests vitamin D levels should be 80-120 to be normal so the high end supplementation is preferred. A 25 OH level above 65 eliminates cancer and most auto immune diseases. There are lectures on UCTV on the subject of vitamin D. I personally believe 5-10K is minimal and take 10K IUs per day and believe up to 30K is safe.
All the folks who love milk may not realize it but they are probably addicted to the opioids in the casein. They are likely a significant factor in the increased cancer risk associated with milk consumption. Please see:
Brantl V, Teschemacher H. A material with opioid activity in bovine milk and milk products. Naunyn Schmiedebergs Arch Pharmacol. 1979 Apr 30;306(3):301-4.
and for a description of the factors in opioids that may increase cancer risk see:
Hoggan, R. (1997). Considering wheat, rye, and barley proteins as aids to
carcinogens. Medical Hypotheses. 49, 285-288.
best wishes,
Ron Hoggan, Ed. D.
Why would opioids cause cancer? Antibiotics cause cancer and they are in commercial milk…grains cause cancer because they are full of mycotoxins and break down into sugars immediately and cancer eats sugar. I do not believe raw milk could cause cancer and I do not believe milk sugars are at all like grain sugars when they are metabolized. =And milk is not mycotoxic without antibiotics in it and I believe cancer is a candida overgrowth.
Grain also has anti-nutrients and many other factors that count against them and towards cancer. Milk was used successfully to cure cancer before they started feeding them sour mash leftovers from corn whiskey. What do your cows eat?
I gave up drinking my “pint of milk at supper” years ago when I noticed I felt a whole lot better without it. Still took full fat in cereal/porridge.
Since going primal I’ve given up the porridge; with it the last stronghold for milk consumption… and the 4 slices of toast at supper… no need for supper now, I’m always satiated!
I still eat a lot of butter, some cheese and always have organic double cream on hand for boosting calorie intake: adding half a tub to a shake is a quick 500cal
I’ve been using, a couple of times a week, a yogurt cheese, organic, full fat. I seem to deal with it very well. I also mix almond milk and goat milk, 50-50, in my post work out shake.
Opioids from casein would behave similarly to those from gluten grains. Since butter is mostly fat, there is little casein to worry about. The reason I posted a citation to my paper on how opioids increase cancer risk is that it is a complex issue. Send me a private email asking for my paper and I’d be happy to send it along.
Best Wishes,
Ron
Ghee or clarified butter are even better choices for those concerned about casein, because the process of making it removes most/all of the remaining milk protein. Ghee can be purchased pre-made, or you can make it yourself at home (Google for instructions).
Mark
Your post today reminded me of a recent NY Times article about new research that explores the link between the consumption of acid producing foods like dairy and osteoporosis; that the acid in dairy actually leaches more calcium from bones than it provides. I would love your thoughts on the article, Exploring a Low-Acid Diet for Bone Health. Here’s the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/health/24brod.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=dairy%20and%20calcium&st=cse
Thanks,
Alison
That acidic/basic nonsense has been around for a long time, although it is usually used to implicate meat or coffee in osteoporosis rather than dairy. Also, it’s probably a good idea to never ever take Jane Brody seriously – she’s a scion for Conventional Wisdom on nutrition.
Also, make note of this quote, as it’s very important to the subject which is not so simple as the acidic/basic proponents make it out to be:
“By contrast, Dr. Insogna said that although eating more protein raised the loss of calcium in urine, it also improved intestinal absorption of calcium and thus might not result in bone loss.”
Yes, don’t combine too many foods that have incompatible digestion with each other, and you won’t get that acid/osteoporosis problem. Thank you for the Insognia link!
I use dairy. Grassfed butter, yogurt, ghee, and I love goat milk butter, raw milk feta and kefir.
I’ve had a hard time finding anything past raw milk cheese for any animal, so I don’t drink milk. I try to limit the cheese save for feta which I have some on my salad everyday.
I’d probably drink some whole raw milk if I could get my hands on some. But I can’t, so I have to pass. Even the cream and butter I can get is still pasteurised.
I don’t drink milk, however sometimes have cream in my coffee – rarely – but cook with butter, and have cheese with wine. I have noticed lately though, after eating a meal cooked in butter it sits on my chest. I don’t get this when I have cream in my coffee or eat cheese. So I guess I will just stop cooking with butter.
I gave up dairy for a while as an experiment a couple of years ago. For years (~15) I’ve not been able to smell or taste anything and I had hoped giving up dairy would resolve that. It didn’t. However, going Primal did! I don’t have 100% smell/taste back, but what I do have is a vast improvement! It may improve even more if I try to give up dairy again – but I’m not looking to do that right now.
During the dairy-free experiment, which lasted a few months, I can’t say that I felt really any different at all, and based on that I’m happy to continue eating dairy for the time being
Do you have white flecks in your fingernails? If so, you may have a zinc deficiency. The white flecks + not being able to taste/smell + going primal(red meat=zinc) makes me think this could be the case.
Mark – My take here is that you don’t really need to analyze its constituents and effects to say whether milk is a primal food or not. It is NOT in my opinion because it is specifically produced for the offspring of the animal that produces it. It will have all the ingredients that is necessary for the growth of the offspring. Now human beings have taken advantage of one aspect of the production of milk from cows and created a multi billion diary industry – it is produced based only on demand. We are in effect interrupting the basic life cycle of the cow for our selfish needs, though killing and eating a cow is a natural thing because we have let the complete cycle of life for them before we kill(which is also a natural phenomenon). And they are also the only species that drink milk after they have grown up! So in my view this is indeed a very unnatural thing to do – here is my take in a bit detail, http://www.jayadeep.com/2009/01/drinking-cows-milk-very-unnatural.html
So you must avoid eggs and seeds also? They serve the same function – to provide nourishment for young, developing members of their species. I am more of a mammal than a seed or a bird, so milk is probably more closely suited to my nourishment than eggs or seeds, right?
Not really, as long as you ensure that eggs and seeds are not completely exhausted, the cycle is not disrupted. It is also before the lifecycle of the plant or animal begins. The point is, milk is produced exclusively for the offspring, not for anyone else and it is disrupting the cycle in between. Hope you get the point.
Hi Mark,
Like a few others here I would also like to know more about the whey protein issue. I have found a supplier in Australia that apparently sell WPI and WPC from hormone free pasture fed cows in New Zealand but as I have had lactose intolerance and mucous problems from factory dairy I am hesitant to try it. I would be interested to know if there is any records of whey protein causing the same problems as casein. Also, does whey protein powder still contain lactose?
Whey concentrate contains some lactose, whey isolate has almost no lactose and fat. There is some study suggesting that concentrate is better than isolate, since concentrate has all the nutritional co-factors. You can find top quality whey concentrate sold by Ori Hofmekler at warriordiet dot com.
I’ve got a Whey Protein article in the works for next week. Stay tuned!
Would you address the issue of oxidized cholesterol in whey protein please?
I like this video: http://www.youtube.com/undergroundwellness#p/u/154/C5ZO3B2butg he says he is lactose intolerant but raw milk has lactase, which counteracts the lactose and doesn’t give him problems. I also like two posts at http://www.paleonu.com titled “a taste of dairy” and “insulinogenic does not mean hyperglycemic.” And Peter at Hyperlipid had this to say about dairy in a personal email:
This is quite simple. Grains are designed to damage your gut, speed the throughput of non damaged ceral seeds, so helping the grain spread itself. As with most plants, they’re not on your side. Dairy is a gift from a mammal directly to it’s own offspring, 50% of the genome of which is common to its own genes. It is looking to maximise survival, not kill. The main problems might come from using a growth promoter type food in an adult. This I would accept as a potential problem but, if it was a reality, the various milk based societies should have stood out as highly disease prone, not a syndrome I recognise. I also tend to avoid the lactose but it’s not something I worry a great deal about.
I suspect a lot of lactose intolerance is merely occult gluten intolerance… No brush border means no lactase. Gluten trashes your brush border. I’ve got a paper somewhere but I’m replying from work…
Peter
Just my thoughts on the topic! Great post btw. I love dairy. I have drastically reduced milk, but the flavor of cheese, cream, sour cream, creme fraiche, and butter is something I don’t think I could give up.. I just need to work on pastured products (can’t really afford that kind of eating on 9.50 an hour).
Very nice summary, Mark.
It’s an individual issue with no clear general answers if we are to be scientifically rigorous.
For those with casein concerns, I give a worry gradient with the most acceptable dairy products listed first:
ghee> butter>cream>half and half>hard cheeses>non-aged soft cheeses>whole>skim
something like that
It’s pretty easy to just stick to ghee or butter and then sub coconut milk for cream – gives you the same fat content and ability to wean from carbs with zero lactose and casein.
I think pastured is the most important modifier – raw may also be a help -and “organic” is just meaningless marketing
Here is my take on dairy: I ate dairy for years, consumed milk, yogurt, cheese, and butter every day of my life. As a mountain climber i would do everything to improve performance, so experimenting with diet was inevitable. To give a little more background, when climbing more than 8 or so hours I would begin to develop bronchospasm, this would also occur on bike rides, and runs that were of similar duration. I adjusted my diet tending toward strict paleo, but never gave up dairy. About 3 months ago I gave it up to see the results. To be honest I don’t notice much of a difference in my day to day life, but the moment I get in those high endurance situations my lung function has improved drastically. I dont get that damn bronchospasm that I have been battling with for years. 2 weeks ago I brought dairy back into my diet, and 3 days ago I went on another long climb. There it was, the bronchospasm was back. I almost hate to say it because I love the stuff, but dairy is off my menu for good, or at least until i retire from long endurance efforts.
My next experiment will be to see if I can get away with Raw, Organic, and Grass Fed cheeses, milk, yogurt, butter, or some combination of them. It sure would be nice…
OK, I tried some raw cream the other day and I had bowel issues like nobody’s business. I tried some pasteurized (non-homo)cream and was fine. Is it the bugs in the raw that I wasn’t accustomed to? I don’t know if I can put myself through that again! Anyone have this experience?
It is possible that the raw milk you had was infected with some sort of bad bacteria. I drink raw milk all the time and have never gotten sick from it–that is NOT normal! But, any raw food can have bad bugs in it and its possible yours did. It is also possible that your body wasn’t used to the good bacteria in it, but I can’t imagine that good bacteria would make you that sick. If anything it would just dramatically improve digestion, not make you sick.
Excellent article (from University College London) on our the evolution of our tolerance for dairy: “Early Europeans Unable to Stomach Milk”.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-02/ucl-eeu022607.php
I’m English and like my traditional strong cuppa with milk. Thing is, my parents switched to completely skimmed milk (this *was* the 80s – the height of the anti-fat crusade) when I was 16 and I’m unable to tolerate even semi-skimmed in my tea now. It’s not a fat thing (I’ll happily down a big dollop of mascarpone with blueberries or a hunk of cheese) – it’s a taste/texture thing. The smell and texture of fattier milk in my tea is totally repellant to me. I do drink plain green tea at work but I’m miserable without my traditional cuppas at home, much as I’ve tried other alternatives. Fortunately I don’t seem to have a problem with milk and in the EU, the regulations are stricter on what they can put into it (ie, no hormones).
I guess I now have to think of my cuppas as a sensible vice!
Lots of comments on this post. I’m not a huge fan of dairy and only drink it with tea or coffee which I do not drink often. It tastes horrible and fatty after a while. Plus the person I live with has lactose intolerance.
Seems dairy’s a huge issue in this community – I for one really would miss my full fat FAGE Greek yoghurt with a few berries, and – touch wood – I have no problems with it.
I never really drank milk as a child, we did have it at school daily until Mrs Thatcher [Milk Snatcher - non-UK folk might like to Bing that] put a stop to it. Wonder if she was secretly primal back in the early 80s…
Read “The China Study” by T. Colin Campbell. Then you will understand the science about animal products. This is new scientific information about dairy. Casein, the protein in dairy is a carcinogen.
I don’t really drink milk much but I do put it in coffee, and I was an ice-cream eater until a month ago when I got serious about the Primal Diet.
When I did drink milk, though, it never bothered me. But I am wondering now if I am have leaky gut symptoms from the small bit I put in my 2 cups of morning coffee.
I’m hitting 30 days Primal, and just a few days ago, after eating a little roast beef and turkey wrapped around a couple of cheese sticks, I felt a little nauseaus. Then I began feeling a little nauseaus each time I ate. I was having what appeared to be leaky gut symptoms because I felt slightly allergic to anything I ate, especially fruit- there are some that I cannot eat like apples, pears, apricots, peaches- but now bananas and blueberries seemed to be affecting me. I had a tingling feeling on my face like little hairs and also had some hive-like bumps popping up near my eyes/cheekbones.
Will eating a really clean, pure Primal diet make things I could be sensitive to stand out more than when I was eating all kinds of junk lopped in together? Also I notice my bathroom habits are suddenly whacked- I couldn’t go for 2 days, and then when I did, it was not normal- it was loose. This is me on a month of the Primal diet. I’ve never lived on such a restricted diet before so I’m wondering if it’s adversely affecting me. I already avoided gluten because my son is Celiac and I believe I am, although he was diagnosed and I was not formally diagnosed. I already avoided yeast, soy, hoppes, tomato (allergy) and those other tree fruits. I also tested postive to carrot and onion although I still eat those cooked in small quantities. So will someone like me with lots of allergies be worse off from a smaller selection of foods to choose from?
Hi Sharon, I suffer from certain food allergies but then I married into a family that severely suffer from them. My mother in law experiences very similar symptoms to yourself. So yes, once you do cut out foods that you are allergic to and then try them at a latter date, the allergy reactions may be greater. This is one of the reasons that this method is used to work out which foods you are allergic to. It was amazing the difference it made when I cut out grains and dairy. Now, as soon as I have dairy my sinuses clog up instantly and my abdominals start to swell. It is the same for grains. There was a stage when my mother-in-laws diet was actually restricted to two food items as she reacted to everything else for quite some time. Then she had to reintroduce other food items slowly and keep out those she reacted to.
I know people who could not handle regular store bought milk but could digest raw milk just fine. The lactose in raw milk is already pre-digested.
I fully understand that this blog is primarily a research-augmented presentation of your personal journey. Let me say that I generally find your rationales to be sound. I am not fully primal only because I exercise so much throughout the week (no chronic cardio, mind you). That’s all tangential to my point but I just wanted to let you know I am a fan.
Something on the blog has been leaving me with a small bellyache (not the dairy), You throw a lot of facts out here. Additionally, you title your article “The Definitive Guide to:…” while implying you are an authority on dietary issues. You should cite your articles. It is the ethical thing to do if you consider that your influence may alter peoples’ (people’s?) livelihood. Like I said – I am a big fan. But, quite unfortunately, your arguments are adulterated by their lack of accountability.
Best,
Rusty
I’m glad you enjoy the blog, Rusty. I’m not sure what you mean by lack of accountability, though. I’ve linked to hundreds if not thousands of research articles from MDA. This post alone references 3 studies and 2 articles on the net. I don’t publish references as footnotes. You have to click the links to dig deeper and find the studies.
I’m not sure what he means, either. Right fom the get-go Mark said:
“I don’t know. I’m not sure anyone really does, in fact, which is why I place dairy firmly in Primal limbo.”
He stated research that he learned in favor of and also against dairy. And said, “Experiment.” So, what more could you want?
I’m sort of glad that I’m lactose intolerant, so I don’t even have to think about it!
Never liked the stuff, anyway. The only way my mom could ever get me to drink milk was by pouring some of her coffee into it.
There are some days where all I have is my full fat, raw, grass fed milk from my Jersey. I won’t touch store bought milk, it is not fit for human consumption and its taste and texture is disgusting. The SAD (wheat damage) and modern processing of milk is what make it allergenic, the evidence suggests. “A sensible vice”? Well, my family feels great, people comment on the radiance of our skin, and my blood work is perfect, and am never sick. It sounds like a great addition to a healthy lifestyle, and many cultures free of the diseases of civilization would agree.
Sadly, in Canada the sale of raw milk is expressly forbidden by law – one farmer who thought he had a way around it by organizing a “co-op” of people who bought shares of his farm’s milk is now facing charges. About the only way we’re going to get raw milk (much less grass-fed raw milk) is to buy our own cow, and I think my landlord might complain about that…
Did this co-op let the sharers milk their own cow or did they milk it for them? I know of a lady that sells shares in her goats and the people come to milk it themselves as there is no law against milking your own goat and drinking the milk, but there is against selling the milk itself.
Yes, it is the same in Australia. We can only get unhomogenized if we search very hard in hidden stores around the countryside. The selling of unpasteurized milk is strictly forbidden.
What about sour cream?
Does sour cream have too many additives?
The funny thing about myself when it comes to dairy is I don’t drink whole, skim or 2% milk anymore because it doesn’t sit on my stomach well. However, I can eat ice cream with no problem. Does that mean I’m lactose intolerant or just half way?
My mother-in-law cannot tolerate dairy except ice cream either. She thinks it is because the proteins are broken up in the freezing process. I’m a bit skeptical on this theory but it would certainly be interesting to find out why this is the case.
Milk has never bothered me and I love my ice cream, also since adopting a more paleo diet, I rarely have a craving for it. *shrugs* I still eat cheese although not as much.
What I can’t wait for is our goat to freshen so I can start milking her. At first I pasteurized because the family was a little hesitant about drinking raw milk. Then my teenager read up on benefits or raw milk so now we drink it raw. We’ve also made fresh cheese and kefir.
Excellent post Mark, maybe even one of your best.
As an acne sufferer I have cut down my dairy intake by 95%. It has done wonders for my skin and for my overall health.
I use to drink about 6 cups of skim milk a day and now drink 0. I use to eat a decent amount of cheese and now eat cheese minimally.
I now eat plain greek yogurt (well, about to try it) but will consume it sparingly.
As far as ice cream goes… only during a birthday or special holiday! And I eat about 1/8 – 1/4 of a serving of dark chocolate (87%) a day.
It is great to follow such a wonderful blog that is questioning milk as well.
http://www.milkdocumentary.com/Site/Home.html…. coming out this spring!
Mark,
Awesome article, well researched and informative.
I’m new, here, just found your blog and enjoying going through it.
While,as you pointed out, many have lactose issues, I often wonder if at least some of the seemingly higher incidence of milk issues in society is a product of the “processed food supply” of the last 60 years.
At any rate, your suggestion of raw or organic choices is a good one…IF…you know the source. As a proponent of the small “ag” producer I advocate local (within 100 miles or so) purchases. Especially with milk. AND as one of the comments suggested…look for the pastured or grass based variety. A true grass fed dairy will not use hormones, anti-biotics, or force their “girls” to be constantly pregnant in order to produce a larger quantity…Sorry, I’m passionate about these things and tend to pontificate too much…Keep up the good work!
As a child, I loved milk – preferred it to water. Until I gave it up in my late 40’s, I had little pimples all over the backs of my arms and legs, breakouts on my scalp and butt, and a big problem with chronic boils. I mentioned the boils to a woman patient at an alternative allergy doc’s office about the boils and she mentioned that whenever she ate dairy, she got boils. I had an epiphany right then and there – that’s what was causing my breakouts and boils, and my nursing daughter’s violent projectile vomiting. A few months after giving up ALL dairy (gotta watch those inert pill ingredients as well), I noticed my skin had cleared up and the chronic winter itchiness and dryness, and flakiness also went away. I also had less calcium buildup on my teeth when I had them cleaned. It wasn’t easy, though. Milk is highly addictive, and is added to lots of processed foods and pills. I lifted weights for a year or so and stayed away from any type of whey products. There is good egg protein supplements, thought. I just don’t think that humans are meant to drink cow milk any more than cows are meant to drink human milk.
PS – I never get sick anymore, unless I eat too much corn (which I’m not eating any longer anyway). No more earaches, which are basically boils on the outside or inside the ear. I haven’t tried raw dairy, but I don’t think I want to. Not drinking milk, eating pizza or ice cream or cheese kinda makes one an outcast amoungst friends and at work, especially if you’re sharing or being treated to lunch. But we all have choices to make.
For those who don’t do milk… Try an “egg milk”. In a blender crack an egg and add 2 tbsp coconut oil (or butter if you have no problem with dairy). Add 1 cup of boiling water while the blender is running and voila’… Dairy free milk.
This recipe is remarkably versatile btw. Use coffee instead of water for a frothy latte. Add cocoa, vanilla or cinnamon. Some sweetener and nutmeg makes a yummy, warm egg nog. Can even be used as a base for soup. Can be chilled but you need to stir it up.
WOW!! Thanks Gabi. I have never heard of this before and will definitely be giving it a go. I love my organic lattes and have been trying to work out how to have one without dairy or soy milk.
That sounds incredible! I will have to give that a try sometime. Thanks for sharing!
Tried it this morning with organic plunger coffee and a dash of vanilla and it was great
I did have to heat it up a bit further to get rid of the overpowering raw egg taste though. But after that it was just nice and creamy. Great recipe !
Try melting the CO or butter in your liquid before pouring over egg in blender. Keeps it hotter. Also using room temperature eggs helps.
I’m usually a substantial milk drinker (~1.5 a day), but for the last week I’ve had no milk. The difference to my sinuses has been noticeable.
Mark, or anyone who knows…
Since whey protein is the other protein in milk that is not casein and since it does not have the sugar lactose… is it ok for people who want to consume non-dairy?
People don’t want to consume dairy for many reasons… but since whey protein has no casein or lactose (right?) then it should be ok… right?
There are strong links to dairy and acne… STRONG links… many studies done. Just wondering if quality whey protein is ok.
Thanks!
Hi Todd, Mark said above that he has a whey protein article coming for us next week. I look forward to reading it also.
Thanks for letting me know! I must have skimmed over where he said that.
I am excited for the article on it as well.
“Milk is highly insulinogenic” , what about the fermented forms? ie; yogurt,kefir and cheese.
@Jim Purdy~
Try herbal teas. Mt. Rose Herbs has a fantastic selection of blends. Usually a store that sells bulk herbs will have tea blends as well, if you have one locally.
Best of luck!
Amen on the Kerrygold, my friend. Their butter is to die for.
And now Kerrygold do a softer, spreadable. Still with no vegetable oil [just a little salt].
Flax seed “bread” + Kerrygold = heaven.
Seems logical, that a Grok would have learned that an animals milk would have been consumable as he would have noticed that humans milk is. In the spirit of consuming all parts of the animal to get the most form it, milk would be part of that.
What about ranch dressing? Can it be primal? I love some creamy ranch on my salads!
Mmmm…milk. You can have that sweet, sweet nectar when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
This is a great guide. I have been lactose intolerant since I was born. I’ve never had a glass of milk. When I do eat small amounts of cooked cheese, I get bloated, constipated, and congested in my head, so I try to avoid it altogether. This has been getting worse as I age, which is weird.
Goat’s Milk FTW. Love that stuff. Trader Joes carries a really tasty brand
Has anyone read eat right for your type? Not that it is 100% correct but the Dr i work for does a lot of research with it and apparently B type blood types can tolerate it in moderation….i dont know about that though because I am B and it makes me very congested and muscousy. I do love the taste though….however; raw milk is difficult to come by and goats milk moreso. I would do goat milk if it was more readily available in raw form.
Hi Kevink. Yes, I started out on the eat right for your blood type diet. I’m a type O and it helped me a great deal to start with and eventually lead me to the paleolithic diet, which is very similar to the type O diet and seems to be good for me. I am not supposed to have any dairy according to the blood type diet and I have found that I cannot tolerate it. I also get congested and mucousy, among other symptoms. I wish it were not the case because I love the taste of milk and cheese but the reactions I get are too severe and decrease my performance levels dramatically.
I’m not sure of the exact stat but I think 60-70% of all milk drinkers around the world actually drink goats milk, not cows milk. It seems only in 1st world western countries is cows milk the preferred choice.
I only drink Almond Breeze unsweetened almond milk — 40 calories for 8oz. with 1 gram of carbs — mix that with 1 TBL Hershey’s unsweetened cocoa (never Dutch cocoa!) and whey protein — yummy! yummy!
Hi Mark,
Kudos for being willing to address this issue, and more kudos for not coming down as opposed – especially where full-fat, raw milk from grassfed cows is concerned. One of the things a lot of people who like to bash “dairy” miss is that not all milk is created equal; low-fat, pasteurized, homogenized, “milk” from cows who are fed a primarily grain-based diet is an entirely different substance from the “real thing.”
I’m glad you mentioned Weston Price; I ***STRONGLY*** recommend that anyone who may be wrestling with this question visit the Weston A. Price Foundation’s “Campaign for Real Milk” website (http://www.realmilk.com/), and spend some time following the links. And while you’re at it, there’s a lot of a good stuff on the WAPF website (http://www.westonaprice.org) in general… not strictly primal, but traditional, and vehemently focused on REAL foods.
Keep up the good work,
Tom
P.S. The “Agricultural Revolution,” e.g., switch to a largely grain-based diet, happened basically 10,000 years ago – as all Primal fans knew quite well. However, what many people may not know is that there is evidence for at least primitive forms of pastoralism – animal husbandry, and therefore almost certainly dairy consumption – as far back as 30,000 years ago. Make of that what you will…
Raw and whole milk is the only way to go. My family enjoys raw butter from grass fed cows, raw cheese and raw milk. We all can enjoy this in moderation while we all can’t tolerate commercial dairy.
Neither my children nor I can tolerate pasteurized dairy in any form (milk, yogurt, cheese, etc.) and were dairy-free before finding raw dairy. I had raw milk until the age of 6 and only had access to pasteurized dairy after that, so avoided it. Our first experience with raw fluid dairy was raw milk and it happened to be from Holstein cows which produce A1 milk. I could tolerate the milk but my children could not. We then switched to the 100% jersey milk (which cost more) and we could all tolerate it with no problem. We now have jersey, jersey/guersney, goat, and buffalo milk that we rotate. We enjoy raw milk, but don’t consume vast quantities of it (my family drinks less than one gallon of milk a week). We use raw cream quite a bit, along with cultured butter, ghee, milk kefir, yogurt, and raw milk cheeses (much of which I make).
What I’ve discovered along our own journey is that we have to have the full fat, 100% grass fed, and A2 in moderate quantities. When we go without it, we do fine and when we have it, we do fine. It’s a matter of personal enjoyment now that we know what works for us.
As for the comment about humans being the only species that consume the milk of other species, that’s simply not true. Many animals consume the milk (both “full” milk and colostrum) of others. Goat kids that cannot get milk from their dams for whatever reason get cow’s colostrum and cow’s milk. Rabbits that are hand nursed get goat’s milk. Cats and dogs will drink cow’s or goat’s milk. Chickens will consume cow’s milk (ours love kefir in fact). … the list goes on and on.
I drink about 5 oz. of heated whole milk (about coffee hot) 4-5 days a week before going to bed, helps me go to sleep, It’s the Melatonin it releases when heated from what i’ve heard, anyway. Milk has never bothered me in anyway, and I have been drinking it for 72 years.
Just dropped milk 3 weeks ago ! I was crippled with arthritis (or was it arthrosis) in my fingers – could not move them without extreme pain. Well – no more pain I swear ! This is truly insane ! I feel like a new person. But how I miss my St-Augur and all those nice saints that have their names on my cheese ! And yogurt …..! bouhou but I’m dancing all the way to painless heaven.
Raw milk does a body good! Much more so than two teaspoons of sugar everyday in your coffee *tongue in cheek* jab at Mr Sisson’s not so sensible vice
Dear Mark,
It was refreshing to read your honest thoughts about dairy in your blog. I agree that the jury is still out on the detrimental effects of dairy and your advice not to consume it if it doesn’t agree with you is the common sense approach.
In all issues (and especially where I do not have resolute scientific advice to support an argument one way or the other) I find the most useful filter to be nature and whether or not there is natural / evolutional / functional evidence to support a course of action. Applying this logic to consuming dairy, while lost in the science, I find myself dwelling on the fact that we are the only mammal to consume milk after we’ve been weaned and stranger still, the milk we consume is not even from our own species.
I don’t believe I am lactose intolerant as I’ve never suffered any uncomfortable symptoms after drinking cow’s milk, but with nature as my guide I steer away from cow’s milk, occasionally using goat’s milk for some things.
No doubt one day science will provide the definitive answer.
All the best,
Ed
Ed, Actually, we are not the only mammals to consume milk after we’ve been weaned, nor are we the only to consume milk to consume milk from another species. Spending time on a farm with animals — or reading about taking care of animals who have sick moms and have to be bottle fed — which show evidence of this. There are a number of examples of this in other places throughout the comments here. I’ve personally seen many “adult” mammals of various species consume milk of cows and goats (quite happily I might add) when given the opportunity. The milk and colostrum from other species has also been known to save the lives of animals who have not been able to nurse from their own mothers for whatever reason.
I have no idea how that myth got into circulation, but it seems to be a popularly held misconception.
Hi Zoe,
I was too absolute in my last comment. You are quite right, there are many examples of other mammals drinking another species’ milk after (or during) weaning and examples of mammals drinking their own species’ milk after weaning, but all of these examples (save a handful) are in regard to domesticated, farmed or human-reared animals, i.e. there’s a human influence.
In nature, in the wild, the examples of other mammals drinking another species’ milk after (or during) weaning are few and far between. Yes, there’s that story of a wolf whose cubs were still born and who then weaned a baby dear which had lost its mother, but barring such extraordinary circumstances, mammals that in the wild do not drink milk after they’ve been weaned and certainly not milk from another species. Again, that’s not to say that they can’t or wouldn’t in extreme cases where survival depended upon it, but it is not a commonly occuring natural phenomenon.
Ed
Just because BABIES thrive on milk – MOTHER’s milk not cow’s milk, doesn’t mean milk is meant for human consumption. If the whole rationale for the primal diet and lifestyle is, What would a caveman eat, what would Grok do? Then dairy is absolutely, definitively OUT. There is no gray area.
I think all the peeps who have TRULY embraced the primal lifestyle, but think milk should be “allowed” deep down don’t WANT milk to be out, because they like cheese, and butter, etc. But that doesn’t mean it’s meant for human consumption.
This is the one area I flat out disagree with Mark on. (which I guess is good, at least now I know I’m not in a cult!) Grok absolutely would NOT have consumed dairy. I’m not saying I’ll never again have butter or cheese. But it’s in my 20% on the 80/20 rule, definitely not the 80. It’s not something I choose to LIVE off of like fruits, veggies, meat, seeds and nuts.
“What would a caveman eat, what would Grok do?”
That is not the question that the Primal Blueprint asks. PB: what can we eat that maximizes gene expression?
Now, we can best understand the factors that maximize gene expression through studying “Grok” and our ancestors. But do not confuse the two.
Am I saying that dairy is great? No, but just because it is relatively young in our diet does not automatically disqualify it. It does have some beneficial aspects to it, such as being high in fat and vitamins/minerals (the natural kind, of course). On the other hand, as many people on here have said, it can cause irritations on an individual basis. YMMV.
Fixed Gear,
I’m not sure how you’re defining “babies” here… my 3.5yo is still breast feeding and my now 8yo nursed until she self-weaned at the age of 4yo. It’s not unusual in parts of the world for children to nurse at their mother’s breast until they’re past the age of 5yo. It’s an issue we have here in the United States that’s related to our issue with women’s breasts that results in children being not nursed at all and forced to wean prematurely — but perhaps that’s another issue all together. However, studies have shown that human children do continue to derive nutritional benefits from breast milk at the age of 7yo even because the nutrient content of human breast milk changes as the child grows. Perhaps it’s even longer than that, but the studies haven’t been done yet?
Also, if left alone, animals can and will continue to nurse from their mother’s teats beyond what we see in your typical domesticated situations. Most farmers force their animals to wean so that they either use the milk for human consumption or dry the animals off for whatever reason (e.g., lactating animals cost more to feed).
I was thinking about making my own almond milk to cut down on dairy, would anyone know how to work out the nutritional value of this? Since you do not use all of the almonds but strain them out once the milk is made.
Thank you
Tatiana
I really enjoyed your post, Mark. Thank you for your honesty. I feel the same way, sometimes I’m a little more convinced one way over the other. We didn’t drink milk for years because we couldn’t get raw, pastured dairy. Now, we can and we’ve been drinking it again.
Most of our dairy has been fermented, kefir or different types of homemade yoghurts. I’m not a huge fan of drinking straight milk because I find it’s hard for my body to digest. Still, I tried for a very long time to heal my leaky gut, but I didn’t see significant healing until I started consuming my homemade kefir.
Regardless, it’s an individual’s right and choice to consume raw dairy and I firmly believe in everyone’s right to make that choice.
Great post! This has been a debate for me for a while, and it’s kinda nice to know that other folks who have been living Primal for much longer than I have have the same questions I do.
My solution was to consider myself HGH (Hunter-Gatherer-Herder). Both sides of my genetics come from peoples who domesticated sheep and goats -very- early in their history (well before any written history). However, I have horrific reactions to cow’s milk — and, surprisingly, an addiction to it as well. So I stick to small-animal milks with great success. I don’t drink any milk in its base state. All of my milk is fermented or turned into butter/cheese, and I stick to goat and sheep dairy. I only allow myself dairy one day out of three, and a lot of times, I find I don’t even want it that often… but just in case, I keep a boundary, so I don’t slip, unknowingly, into addictive patterns like I can with cow’s milk (like eating an entire block of cheese in a single day, just because I couldn’t make myself stop — even knowing it was going to make me sick!). I use coconut “milk”, almond milk and sprouted hempseed milk if I have to have something “milky” on the other days (like in cooking).
For me, it works. I continue to move towards improved health, my MS stays in remission, and my mobility and mental clarity are rewardingly agile and crisp. For me, this works, so I suspect I’ll keep on doing it.
After this article I thought that I would try milk again. I tried goat’s milk and an unhomogenized organic cow’s milk. It was the best I could get in Australia because selling unpasteurized milk is illegal. Unfortunately, within a week I had scalp psoriasis that bad it was bleeding. I guess milk is just not for me
I am finding coconut cream and milk has a slightly bitter taste. Is anyone else experiencing this?
If I am trying to get really lean for summer I will skip the dairy. The rest of the year, however, I drink quite a bit of whole milk- up to a third gallon a day. I find the extra calories really help me recover from heavy lifting. My Crossfit WOD times improve as well, even if I am a bit heavier. Plus I’m a broke college student and along with eggs, milk is just about the cheapest food calorie for calorie. My dog lives on oats, eggs, and whole milk as well. She is the happiest, most lively, 16-year-old lab I’ve seen.
Mark, I really like that you put dairy in the gray zone and let it be up to people to experiment and try for themselves. The easy way would just be saying no to dairy – but I like that you don’t take the easy way out