Marks Daily Apple
Serving up health and fitness insights (daily, of course) with a side of irreverence.
3 Dec

Should You Be Eating High-Fat Dairy?

DairyOne thing that sets the Primal way of eating apart from other ancestral health approaches is our acceptance of dairy fat. Obviously, those people who can’t tolerate dairy shouldn’t eat it, but in my experience a significant portion of the community can handle high-quality, full-fat dairy, especially butteryogurt, and cheese. We like these foods for many reasons. They’re delicious. They make vegetables more appealing and nutritious. They’re inherently nutritious themselves, containing fat-soluble vitamins and important minerals, while the potentially problematic components of dairy – the whey, casein, and lactose – are either absent or mitigated by fermentationFermented dairy is a good source of probiotics, too. All in all, dairy is worth including if you can do it.

The rest of the nutritional world seem to be catching up with us on this. Recent years have seen a rash of meta-analyses, epidemiological studies, and clinical trials that question the assumption that low-fat dairy is healthier than full-fat dairy. Even Harvard’s Walter Willett, that seed oil-loving silver fox with the voluminous mustache, has come out in tepid support of full-fat dairy. Official recommendations lag, as they always do, but it’s changing. Just check out some of the studies. They don’t just exonerate dairy fat. They increasingly and repeatedly find connections between dairy fat and improved health.

  • A recent study entitled “Milk in the diet: good or bad for vascular disease?” found that the evidence “indicates that increased consumption of milk does not result in increased CVD risk and may give some long-term benefits” including reduced blood pressure and body weight, and that the “SFA in dairy may be less of a risk factor than previously thought.”
  • In women, a recent study found that the effect of dairy on cardiovascular disease depends entirely on the type of dairy consumed. Cheese consumption was inversely associated with risk of heart attack, while butter used on bread increased the risk. Awesomely and unsurprisingly, butter used for cooking did not increase the risk.
  • According to another review of the influence of milk fat on CVD risk, the “majority of observational studies have failed to find an association between the intake of dairy products and increased risk of CVD, coronary heart disease, and stroke, regardless of milk fat levels.” While butter and other sources of milk fat may increase LDL-C “when substituted for carbohydrates or unsaturated fatty acids,” they also increase HDL and may even improve the HDL:total cholesterol ratio.
  • Another study found that neither low-fat dairy nor full-fat dairy were associated with cardiovascular disease. However, full-fat fermented dairy was protective against CVD.

Many of those studies are based on dietary recall, which is notoriously unreliable. Can you remember how much dairy fat you ate five years ago? Five months ago? Five days ago? It’s more accurate to look at how biomarkers of dairy fat consumption, specific fatty acids or nutrients unique to dairy (or at least uncommon in other foods) that signify dairy fat intake when they show up in tissue or blood, relate to health conditions:

  • In overweight teens, levels of the dairy-specific saturated fats pentadecanoic acid and heptadecanoic acid in the blood were associated with lower inflammatory markers, even after controlling for calcium, vitamin D, protein, and omega-3 intake (all dairy components that may influence health).
  • Higher levels of trans-palmitoleic acid (a dairy fat) were associated with lower insulin resistance, dyslipidemia, and diabetes risk.
  • Although higher circulating trans-palmitoleic acid meant higher LDL-C, it also meant lower triglycerides, improved blood pressure, and less diabetes in a cohort of white, black, Latino, and Chinese Americans. Circulating pentadecanoic acid was also linked to reduced cardiovascular disease in that same cohort. I’ll take the higher LDL-C if I get all the other stuff.
  • Dietary intake of menaquinones (vitamin K2), “which is highly determined by the intake of [full-fat] cheese,” was associated with a reduced risk of incident and fatal cancer.

Dairy fat contains over 400 of these fatty acid “species,” making it the most complex natural fat. Not all of those species have been studied – 400 is a tall order – but there is evidence that at least a couple of them exert beneficial effects:

Conjugated Linoleic Acid

You know CLA by now. It’s the “good trans-fat,” the one that causes feverish vegans to point and scream about dairy “having trans-fats!” until you calmly explain the difference between manmade trans-fats in partially hydrogenated vegetable oils and beneficial trans-fats produced in the rumens of cattle and sheep.

covered CLA a few years ago, focusing especially on the differences between supplemental CLA (often mostly trans-10, cis-12) and naturally occurring CLA (90% cis-9, trans-11), so I won’t go too much into it. Suffice it to say, supplemental CLA is a different beast altogether whose effects cannot be extrapolated out to dairy containing CLA. The dose is larger and the structure is different. That said, dairy naturally rich in cis-9, trans-11 CLA has been shown to be beneficial in trials. In a 2010 trial, pecorino romano (a raw sheep cheese high in CLA that I highly recommend) improved markers of inflammation and atherosclerosis in human subjects compared to a control cheese low in CLA.

Butyric Acid

Butyric acid is a short chain fatty acid produced in the guts of mammals by fermentation of fiber by gut bacteria. Since ruminants like cows are processing tons of fibrous plant matter, they make a lot of butyric acid which ends up in their dairy fat. Most research has focused on the benefits of endogenous production of butyric acid in the colon, but one human study suggests that oral butyric acid in the amounts we could expect to get from dairy fat can also have beneficial effects on our health.

However, it was an enteric-coated oral butyric acid supplement that helped 53% of subjects with “mild to moderate” Crohn’s disease go into remission and 16% have partial improvement, not a mouthful of butter. Enteric coatings allow supplements to make it into the colon whereas butter will be digested before making it. I suppose it’s possible that poor digestion could allow for some butter (and butyric acid) to make it down to the colon, but that’s not a desirable condition. The results of this study may not be applicable to butter consumption.

Milk Fat Globule Membrane

Dairy fat is encapsulated in a “milk fat globule membrane” that also includes various other bioactive compounds that seem to exert beneficial effects. Indeed, consumption of buttermilk, which is rich in MFGM, has been shown to reduce blood pressure in human subjects. Another study showed reductions in cholesterol, especially triglycerides, with buttermilk consumption.

What about low-fat dairy?

Low-fat dairy doesn’t seem to help with blood pressure or adiposity. It either has no effect on or increases a certain marker of inflammation, while eating butter, cream, or cheese has either a beneficial or no effect on inflammation. And although milk is often implicated in cancer, that’s only true for low-fat and skim milk; full-fat milk appears to be protective.

For all the potential benefits of these dairy-specific fatty acid species, I’m hesitant to elevate any one of them. Dairy is a whole food, and it’s likely the entire package that’s responsible for the effects. Plus, it’s difficult, if not impossible, to disentangle the fatty acid components from the other nutrients in dairy. CLA comes with calcium comes with milk fat globule membranes come with vitamin K2 comes with potassium comes with protein, and so on. And even if we could isolate the effects of various dairy nutrients and study them, that goes out the window we eat the stuff. When we bite down on a slab of aged gouda or toss a pat of grass-fed butter over some steamed broccoli or quaff a flagon of kefir, the myriad components of dairy are mingling in our mouths and our guts and being incorporated into and used by our tissues. We can’t disentangle dairy nutrients in the real world. Why would we want to? If we do, we end up with CLA supplements that don’t work quite as well as grass-fed dairy. Just eat the dairy. Studies – and millennia of tradition across dozens of cultures – support this practice.

Whatever’s doing it, something in the full-fat dairy is improving our health over and above low-fat dairy – and that’s what matters most. Choose your fancy. Raw milk? Drink it if you got and want it. Aged sheep cheese? Enjoy. Yogurt? Do it. They all seem to be associated with good health, protection from CVD and diabetes and obesity. Since the healthy user effect doesn’t really apply to full-fat dairy (since “everyone knows” full-fat dairy is bad for you), I’m cautiously optimistic that it’s actually exerting beneficial effects on people who eat it.

What does this mean in the big picture? Is full-fat dairy unabashedly Primal? If you’re tolerant of it, then yes, I suppose it is.

In a future post, I’ll explain how you can figure out if you’re dairy intolerant.

Thanks for reading, everyone. Take care and be sure to leave a comment!

You want comments? We got comments:

Imagine you’re George Clooney. Take a moment to admire your grooming and wit. Okay, now imagine someone walks up to you and asks, “What’s your name?” You say, “I’m George Clooney.” Or maybe you say, “I’m the Clooninator!” You don’t say “I’m George of George Clooney Sells Movies Blog” and you certainly don’t say, “I’m Clooney Weight Loss Plan”. So while spam is technically meat, it ain’t anywhere near Primal. Please nickname yourself something your friends would call you.

  1. I love having dairy in my diet, It helps me with getting some extra protein!

    Rob wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Dr. Spock of the Baby and Childcare books..said his greatest regret is that he recommended cows milk for children. He like others realized later in life that COWS MILK IS FOR BABY CALVES…AND NOT FOR HUMANS. Anyway..most persons of African descent are lactose intolerant..and the last thing they should be drinking is milk.

      BARBBF wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • Well, that’s a silly reason not to consume dairy… nothing we eat was intended for us to eat. The plants that produced the vegetables we chow down on certainly didn’t think ‘hmm, I better produce a bumper crop so I can feed all these humans’. The ethics of eating dairy should be argued without reference to whether cow milk was meant for us.

        Jac wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • “nothing we eat was intended for us to eat.”

          Except for fruits, (and parasites).

          PapaHotel wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Spot on! I have to agree that it’s a silly reason to not consume dairy. It’s about time dairy gets some love from the Paleo community seeing as most people I”ve come across who are Paleo are caucasion and of European descent which (generally speaking) have no problem digesting milk. If you can’t digest it, that’s fine. I have no plans on eliminating dairy any time soon.

          Matt wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Go read about the lactase persistence allele it will answer all your questions about dairty.

          Daniel wrote on December 9th, 2013
      • Don’t tell the Maasai that. Cows blood mixed with milk is a staple of their diet.

        Jane P wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Right on!

          Fred Timm wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • I agree. I am from Kenya and the Maasai have existed on this diet for years and years and are the healthiest people l know of.

          Irene Goodlow wrote on December 5th, 2013
      • Tell it to the Masai.

        Gayle wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • Cow’s milk contains lactase as well as lactose. In raw milk, the lactase ‘consumes” the lactose….your body doesnt’ have to. When milk is pasturised the lactase is destroyed leaving the lactose….your body is not designed to deal with it, that’s why a lot of people who consume processed dairy are lactose intolerant. Again, if you consume the whole food, you will be better off because the pasturisation propably kills off a lot more nutrients.

        Lya wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Lactase is NOT in milk… It’s the bacteria in raw milk which ferment the lactose…

          Lactase is only produced in the human body… Biggest furfie about raw milk is the lactase

          Kat wrote on December 7th, 2013
      • Really??? What about those magnificent Masai???

        Laura wrote on December 4th, 2013

        Really… Then what are eggs for??? You don’t eat eggs?

        Anders Emil wrote on December 5th, 2013
      • XD,

        the moment i read the title, i just knew someone is going to mention “baby cows”

        dont’ think i can ever give up dairy because

        . butter & ghee

        . Beemser Vlaaskas (cheese)

        . morning black tea + 1 T HWC

        . creme Fraiche! creme Fraiche! XD


        ps. actually, milk & fruits are the only items in nature that are grown to be consumed.

        pam wrote on December 9th, 2013
      • Interesting since Weston Price mentions the Maasai drank raw milk as a constant part of their diet.

        Leo wrote on March 29th, 2014
      • So is the beef from a cow also bad for us and human flesh the only acceptable meat to consume?

        victor wrote on April 6th, 2014
    • I’m sure you’ve been asked this before:

      How does anything dairy fit into a paleo diet? We are eaters of meat, vegetables, fibrous fruits and nuts. We drink water.

      (I’m just reading de Vany’s book. He appears to be opposed to dairy, tho has an “occasional” serve of yogurt for a treat.)

      John Macgregor wrote on April 25th, 2016
  2. Love this post! High-fat dairy is awesome!

    Joanna wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  3. Excellent post and reassuring for this cheese-a-vore. I do wonder, though, why dairy is often implicated in weight gain (or weight loss stalls). Is it simply a matter of a calorically dense food that is easy to overeat? Or is there something else going on?

    Rand wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Maybe because dairy is almost always paired with something else? Cheese and crackers. Bread and butter. Pizza. Sugary lattes.

      SeattleSlim wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • This is why I sometimes prefer my butter unaccompanied. A slice of cheese is normal, so why not a slice of butter? 😉

        Allison wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • Allison, that is just what I did on our anniversary dinner in June. They served warm (smelled wonderful) bread with cold butter. Well, the best thing about the bread was the butter so I just ate the butter and smelled the bread. Worked for me. Sometimes I’ll have a little bit as a snack as I’m fixing dinner. Everything is better with butter!

          2Rae wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • Like

          Danielle Thalman wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • Taking your idea one step further, a slice of cheese on a slice of butter.

          Paleo Bon Rurgundy wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • My kids love their butter unaccompanied also. At first I was reluctant but then decided why not! Thanks for letting me know we aren’t alone. :-)

          Lisa wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • When growing up in Brazil almost 90 years ago, my mother was asked what she wanted for her birthday. She chose “A kilo of butter that I don’t have to share.” She got it.

          OnTheBayou wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Oh good! I’m not so weird after all! I love to eat a pat of butter now and then.

          Melissa wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Yes. I have also buttered my cheese before.

          Anna wrote on December 5th, 2013
        • Butter on cheese… why didn’t I think of that? They are both wonderful by themselves, and I bet they will compliment each other.

          Bill C wrote on December 5th, 2013
        • YES! Buttered Cheese. I’m going to have to try that. My co-workers think I’m nuts when I tell them I have a spoonful of that grass-fed butter when I need a snack.

          Cindy wrote on December 6th, 2013
        • Your comment made me laugh because my 3-year-old son and so many other young children are constantly doing this exact same thing! He’s never seen anyone else do it, he has never been encouraged to do it, yet he and so many other tiny humans do it seemingly instinctively — I think that says something! And this is a kid who would not drink milk (but would happily gobble down any cheese or yogurt).

          Anyway, I love fermented dairy and feel like I can’t get in enough calories without it so this post makes me HAPPY!

          KGirl wrote on August 19th, 2014
    • Doesn’t matter whether it’s full fat or not, dairy is insulinemic.

      Erin wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • “dairy is insulinemic”

        Indeed it is – as is also fish, beef & chicken. In fact if we look at the Insulin Index, beef is 51 ± 16 on the insulin scale; fish is worse, at 59 ± 18. Cheese is a mere 45 ± 13. Eggs much better at 45 ± 13.

        Why do the dairy-bashers never cite the figures for meat? Why don’t you tell the whole story?

        So from an evidence-based science perspective, based on the insulin index, you should absolutely become a vegan if your main concern is insulin level.

        Maybe permit yourself to live on peanut butter alone – it’s insulin index is
        a mere 20 ± 5.

        greensleeves wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • I dare you to gurgle in a toilet bowl because that’s what you sound like. I love full fat dairy. I consume in moderation though because it often bloats me and gives me pimples. And Robb Wolf did all the research for me. Feel free to visit his site.

          Erin wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • I think Erin needs to be toilet trained!

          Whatever!!!!! wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • website provides educational resources for consumers …

          by Mike Adams

          Dec 5, 2004 – website provides educational resources for consumers wanting to learn about the health dangers of dairy products, explains …

          BARBBF wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • I wouldn’t touch pasturized dairy…it’s dead.. even if it’s organic. Only raw full fat dairy for me. Raw butter, raw cheese, raw homemade kefir…a pint a day for probiotics… raw home made Greek yogurt. ..I live on it. I’m so blessed to be able to get it. Bring on the fat!

          penny wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • I can’t tell if Erin’s comment means that dairy is bad because it is insulinemic, because it causes bloating and pimples, or because Robb Wolf said so.

          Piper A R wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • erin, only the proteins whey and casein are insulinemic. The fat isn’t. Therefore cream and butter are non-insulinemic.

        OnTheBayou wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Thanks for a great idea penny. I will test your theory tomorrow morning and have a misto made with heavy cream and measure my blood sugar before and an half hour later (…w/understanding that blood sugar is not insulin, but has an effect on it).

          Da Big Shoe wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • There are so many factors that I would not even want to lump ‘full fat diary’ all into one category. For instance, I tried out the much lauded greek yogurt a few months ago, and I liked it fairly well and was eating it for breakfast for a while until I figured out that every day I ate it, I got nasty acne that would not start to heal until I went 24 hours without the yogurt. I had carefully chosen the healthiest yogurt with nothing but milk and cultures and it was giving me pustules, ew! I experimented a bit by eating and not eating the yogurt and the acne followed precisely about 12 hours after consumption. Gotta wonder what else it was doing to the body if just the skin got that sick. Whereas I can suck down standard heavy cream with no acne breakouts at all. I can also eat parmesan cheese and blue cheese with no problems.

          I was reading a while back about how each breed of cow has different proteins and allergens in their milk compared to other breeds. Some of the proteins were shown in testing to be more likely to be allergenic to more people. The cow breeds common in america were most likely to be allergenic. Could this be due to Americans having more leaky gut and having developed more allergies to our own common foods than those living in other countries? Maybe, but it’s complicated and we don’t have enough data. It maybe that benefits and disadvantages of diary may be highly specific to each individual’s genetics and their situation. Some genetic lineages seem quite good and digesting it and others seem quite bad.

          ALthough I do agree that for babies, cows milk sucks (pardon pun) as a replacement for mother’s milk. So I do think, when considering the issue, we need to also consider what we are expecting to get from it. For providing certain nutrients and fats to the diet of those that are good at digesting it and may be lacking for intake of those nutrients, the net result of ingesting it may be good, but for babies and others with different genetics, it’s quite possibly the reverse.

          Consider that most foods we eat can be either good or bad depending on factors like genetics, exercise levels, amounts eaten, preparation methods, current health conditions, etc. Diary is no different. You have to look at the big picture. If the answers were simple, we would have already figured them out!

          Eva wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Eva, I’m not saying that you should keep trying dairy if you know it doesn’t work for you, but here’s a thought: many people associate acneic breakouts as a natural detox pathway. Could it be that the full-fat dairy, choc full of natural glutathione precursors, is actually so nourishing for the liver that our detox process starts up, and those blemishes are a result of toxins leaving the body? Just hypothesizing.

          Sierra wrote on December 5th, 2013
      • It is unbelievable all the negative connotations of insulin. Although most on this site are probably looking to lose weight, I bet ya there are a handful who wish they were bigger. Insulin is essential for muscle growth too.

        Erin wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • Thank you! God made the stuff. Can’t “disentangle that”.

        Dan wrote on December 4th, 2013
  4. We are starting to use full-fat dairy. Non-homogenized organic is the best dairy we can get here (raw is illegal), but I can’t always buy it. I don’t like milk per se, just make quark from it (with kefir grains).

    The local company that supplies non-h organic milk recently started a line of double cream (52%) and I love a dub of it in my coffee. The problem is they sell it in 1 cup container. So I froze it because it will take me a loooong time to get through one cup – will it be Okay?

    There is also new plain yogurt from Liberte with cream added to make it 10% – is it better, worse or no difference than a normal fat content yogurt? It is certainly very good, and my child & husband who won’t eat Greek, will eat this one (no other stuff added) and call it ‘ice-cream’). Or is the Greek non-fat still better?

    leida wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Many states where raw milk is illegal get around that by selling Herdshares. I do this in Oregon. I make my own kefir and yogurt out of the raw milk. The cream and butter is also to die for. The Weston Price Foundation knows the benefits of raw milk and has been promoting it since the 1930’s.

      Nocona wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Cowshare is not available in AB yet. It is in BC, but that means frozen milk. I kindda think local non-homogenized >> frozen, not local.

        leida wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • I use raw dairy (goats milk and cows milk) which is legal in FL only for pet food purposes. (My dog loves raw goat milk as much as we do!!) may have a solution for you if you really want to try it.

      Because we don’t use a lot of it, I freeze it immediately in smaller sterilized glass canning jars and just thaw what we need. It’s fine.

      From what I understand some of the organic milk is pasteurized at an even higher temperature than other pasteurized milk.

      My daughter loves Liberte yogurt too. It’s delicious we’ve only tried the flavored kind and it seems to have quite a bit of sugar in it.

      Ellen wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Yeah, I can’t stand flavored yogurts any more. Just a taste change!

        leida wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • Yep, was going to suggest looking for low-temp pasteurized. Natural By Nature is one brand, and Organic Valley sells both (though unfortunately the ultra pasteurized is much easier to find). It’s not raw, but the low temp is at least better. I know people who can handle it but not ultra pasteurized (and don’t get me started on the so heated it’s shelf stable kind, ugh).

        Karen wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • Hi Leida,

      Try freezing the cream in ice-cube trays… you can even get small ones in which one cube will be about enough for one coffee.

      As you probably know, it’s not as good as fresh from frozen, but it does the trick.

      We’ve frozen and thawed cheddar and brie too and it’s fine if thawed slowly and allowed to thaw to room temp.

      Cloudy wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • I will give it a try. Have a history of freezing tomato paste and concentrated orange juice and broth in i-c trays….

        leida wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • When you have extra heavy or double cream, make butter! It’s very easy – just run it through your food processor or mini chopper until it turns into a big ball of butter and the whey starts spurting out.

      Katie wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • High-fat dairy keeps a long time in the fridge. But I’m surprised you don’t go through it faster ;my wife and I go through about a quart of heavy cream a week just in our coffee.

      Jay Gloab wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • 52%?! Yum yum! The organic cream available to us in our part of Ontario is 10% (half and half) and 35%, in 2-cup cartons. That is usually too much for us to get through before the best before date, so I freeze it in ice cube trays. When it’s frozen, I take the trays out and leave them on the counter for 5 minutes or so, and then I pop the cream cubes into labelled bags and bung them back in the freezer. When I thaw them again, they are fine, though they do need to be stirred to smooth them out. I don’t know what the chemical changes are that might occur during freezing, but the general rule is, the higher the fat content, the better food survives the freezing process. We regularly freeze cream and butter.

      Northern Mermaid wrote on December 6th, 2013
  5. Oh Cheez Whiz…

    Groktimus Primal wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  6. Was wondering about this as I ate my bowl of full-fat Greek yoghurt (Fage) this morning (mixed with wild blueberries). Day 3 of going whole hog Primal.

    Steve Bzomowski wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • As much as it broke my heart, I had to quit the Fage due to the fact that it isn’t organic—following some info from Paul Chek, I won’t touch conventional dairy again—scary stuff. I really love full fat Fage, too.

      Organic Bulgarian Yogurt is comparable in price and very tangy and delicious though…

      Graham wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • What’s wrong with Fage? Is it the product, or something in the production? If you can point me to more info on that topic, that’d be great. Thanks.

        Samantha wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • It comes from conventionally raised animals. It’s “all natural,” not organic. It’s also the perfect texture and flavor, but c’est la vie….

          I’m sure Google can point you to more info on the topic…that’s what it does.

          Graham wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Ok, thanks I’ll search it out, thanks for letting me know what Google does. You seemed to have done some research and so I thought you’d have more information to volunteer. Sorry to bother you.

          Samantha wrote on December 4th, 2013
  7. Do you think dairy is demonized in the paleo community only because it is technically a processed food?

    Jess wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Some of us have no tolerance for it. Aside from the well known GI issues, I find that it makes my sinuses very congested, to the point where a bite will give me a headache for 2-3 days and more will congest me to the point of needing medical attention. My allergist also warned me that it could potentially progress to the point of anaphylaxis at any time.

      Myra wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • I can’t do dairy either. Even a small amount will give me a sore throat and major congestion. Back in the days when I didn’t realize this I had major bouts with sinus infections and bronchitis. I’ve experimented and even goat and sheep dairy bothers me. Luckily I’m ok with ghee.

        Nancy wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • curious if fermented whole milk would do the same. my face would break out after having dairy, but when i eat kefir or yogurt (raw milk, homemade) it doesn’t.

          suzanne wrote on December 7th, 2013
      • It’s Benadryl to the rescue for me, but LT use of antihistamines isn’t good, so i just pass on the dairy.

        Wenchypoo wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • You’re right about long-term use of antihistamines being bad for us; plus, I found it gives me Restless Leg Syndrome, especially if I try to use it at night…

          Tee Dee wrote on December 7th, 2013
      • Me too but nowhere near as severe as you. I can handle butter and small amounts of cream. But yeah, get the coated throat feeling and some bad stomach action after eating too much. I haven’t tried raw dairy, I’ve excluded dairy from my life for so long now that I don’t miss it.
        I’ve not been properly assessed, however I’m looking forward to Mark’s upcoming intolerance post.

        Madeleine wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • A lot of these symptoms are caused by a certain protein in the milk, most likely. As someone else mentioned higher up in the thread, most American dairy cows produce a certain type of protein in the milk, I keep getting the good one confused with the bad. There’s A1 and A2. It’s all explained in the book Devil in the Milk. I don’t drink milk anymore, used to love it. I still eat butter, ice cream, cheese, cream cheese though. Right before I stopped drinking milk, I noticed a benign tonsillar mass. Decided to stop drinking milk and it went away, hasn’t come back. I do get a runny nose and possibly some other symptoms after eating dairy but if I get to the point where I’m tired of them, I’ll cut the dairy out.

          J.J. Virgin does say that if someone craves or loves dairy, they’re most likely intolerant of it lol and would experience great benefits from removal.

          Wenona wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • It gives me pimples

        Erin wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • Have you tried a paper bag!!!

          Pimples wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • I think some paleo folks dislike dairy for the same reason they dislike grains: they are foods that were introduced into the human diet relatively recently, so we may not have evolved to properly digest and metabolize it. That said, I have no problem with it – I eat a fair amount of full-fat plain yogurt, aged cheeses, and butter. I don’t really like drinking milk, but a do enjoy heavy cream in my coffee.

      Mantonat wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • It’s the lactose that scares us. Dr. Volek says there are TONS of sugar in a glass of milk.

        Wenchypoo wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • if you eat your dairy fermented, the lactose is largely gobbled up by the bacteria

          Lucia wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Ummm, I’m pretty sure we’re all able to metabolize dairy at first–mother’s milk! So the argument that we didn’t “evolve” to process dairy is a little silly.

        Some of us lose the ability to metabolize dairy after weaning. Others do not.

        Janknitz wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • There is a huge difference between Milk from your mother (same species) versus the milk from another animal. It really is not a silly argument at all. You are just missing the point.

          Anthony wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • I think it goes without saying that Mantonat is referring to ADULT humans having evolved the ability to digest milk, past infancy. You are being silly by overlooking the obvious.

          tkm wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • Yes we can (usually) drink our mother’s milk the problem is we are not made to drink the milk of other mammals so therefore we are unable to process it correctly.

          Kay wrote on December 4th, 2013
        • Isn’t all milk mother’s milk? That cow at the dairy farm is probably some calf’s mom! 😉

          Mantonat wrote on December 5th, 2013
        • So you drink human breastmilk?

          melanie wrote on June 27th, 2014
  8. I think dairy is an important food group that should be consumed if your body allows it. Personally, I find if I do not consume dairy I do not feel as strong or healthy. That said, I consume dairy in the form of whole milk kefir (with cream added sometimes), heavy cream in my coffee, lots of butter, and lots of cheese.

    An interesting side note, I used to drink a lot of skim milk and I had pizza face acne. I cut our dairy and my acne cleared over the course of a few months (I sadly went through Accutane, antibiotics, various face creams). I find I have problems with the sugar in dairy, but not the fat or protein.

    As for weight gain and low-fat dairy, I think it is true, depending on the rest of your diet and activity level.

    Josh wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  9. Soooo glad to see here what I always felt was true. I eat kind of a lot of dairy since I’m very low carb, and I have a hard time getting enough fat otherwise. I am very fortunate to live where I can get raw CREAM from a farm. It’s unbelievable– the consistency of mayonnaise. (jealousy bells ringing??) I think of it as a vitamin pill. I don’t drink milk, but stick to raw cheeses (great sources for the beautiful artisan ones here, too) and the cream, which I make butter from when I can get enough. (Not always available in qty). I have found a high fat Greek yogurt (Greek Gods) that I enjoy, as well. Only the plain– it’s like yogurtized cream. A much lower carb count than other greek yogurts, even full fat ones. So THANKS for the validation, Mark! And btw, last blood work had my HDL at 95 and TGs at 45. Think I’ll keep doing dairy fat…..

    Emelee wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • We get that kind of cream once in a while – it’s so thick you can barely pour it!

      Heather wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Right now I have greek gods whole fat plain and it is the tastiest greek yogurt I have had! It’s like desert!

      Kristine wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Yes! I love their yogurt. A bit of that with some pumpkin seeds and cinnamon is one of my favorite snacks. And here, at least, they’re more affordable than most of the fat-free Greek yogurts.

        Beccolina wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • I AM jealous. Wanna do a cultural exchange? I’m in Oregon…

      Danielle Thalman wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • That was a response to Emelee btw

        Danielle Thalman wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Or Heather

        Danielle Thalman wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • I love Greek Gods yogurt and was very happy when one of our local stores started carrying it. I had it the first time earlier this year when we visited a friend in Tucson AZ.

      LynnA wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • I eat alot of raw milk kefir. My HDL just came in at 94, but my triglycerides are 108 and LDL 111. total cholesterol is 225. all numbers are up since i started guzzling kefir. not sure if this is a bad thing??

      suzanne wrote on December 7th, 2013
  10. What do you think about A1 versus A2 milk?

    Alicia wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  11. Mark what are your personal favorite dairy products? Cheeses in particular? I have a grocer with a selection of cheeses that i’ve yet to sample 80% of, and I’m always looking for good recommendations! I bought some humboldt fog goat cheese and it was delicious, but the texture was strange and a little soft for me, so i might buy it again but not very often. Beemster goat gouda is one that I cannot avoid, and I have to keep some parmigiano reggiano on hand. Another I tried and loved recently was an alpine style cheese from vermont called spring brook tarentaise. I bought a big old chunk of that.

    Tom wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Personally I love the Beemster XO, with its crunch flavor crystals sprinkled throughout the wedge. Beemster Grasskaas is produced in late spring/early summer with the milk from the cows that gorged themselves with new spring grasses. Locatelli is a delicious pecorino romano that my kids and I eat cubed. For another sheep cheese, try the Manchego, but get it aged more than four months; it’s more caramely tasting with more age. I’m not too sure how primal mozzarella is, but Sam’s carries a brand that is either packaged as two balls or one log, and it’s full fat. When it’s room temp you can usually see some yellow juices that taste very like butter! And buffalo mozzarella is bliss!

      Lisa wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Oh my goodness, Lisa, you’ve got me positively drooling for some new varieties of cheese! Thanks! :)

        Tee Dee wrote on December 7th, 2013
  12. I’m glad you addressed this because I’ve been curious about my intake. I really feel fine with most dairy in certain quantities (along with some other technically non-Primal foods). I use heavy cream for coffee and tea. Butter for cooking. The occasional kefir or yogurt. And definitely a lot of cheese (sharp provolone, mmmmmm!! I’m half Sicilian).
    I tried drinking whole milk for a few weeks over this past summer. It had been YEARS since I had had milk in a glass. I stopped because it just started to weird me out, how young mammals stop drinking milk, but I still was. The first week or two back to drinking milk went OK and MAN was it delicious, but I soon started to feel strange – gassy, bloated, not myself. So that stopped. I use it now and again to make masala chai or some damn good hot cocoa.

    John wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  13. I get minor joint pain from some forms of dairy. It’s very tolerable but I notice it. Does anyone know if that means it isn’t being absorbed by my body? Do lactose intolerant people get the benefits of dairy despite the pain?

    Alexander wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • It could be your immune system is triggered by the milk protein and confuses your joints with them, attacking them. I’ve heard about this in online podcasts. I’m sorry I can’t remember the remedy but maybe with some research you could find it. It can also be linked to gluten sensitivity, if you have it then your body is more likely to attack the proteins in milk and your joints.

      Wenona wrote on December 4th, 2013
  14. Butter is really the only source of dairy fat that I get right now. Wisconsin has a bill on the floor right now that will legalize raw milk sales direct to the consumer. I will introduce some milk into my diet if I can legally buy it direct from the farmer…

    I’ve also been able to find a locally made full fat, grass fed seasonal cheese in local stores too.

    Bryan wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  15. Here in northern Canada, we can only get organic full fat pasteurized dairy products. I would really like to know if there is any benefit to eating them when they are all pasteurized? Or are the benefits completely mitigated by the pasteurization process…I realize it is better to have raw…just not available here….

    hikergirl11 wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Yup, still worth it. The pasteurization process destroys a couple of nutrients that are heat sensitive, but it leaves many perfectly fine. Mark has written this in past articles on dairy/milk, so you can look it up for more info on specifics.

      Plus, cheese still has the nutrients listed in this article, and many cheeses aren’t made with raw milk, so other than new nutrients/chemicals introduced via the fermentation process, pasteurized milk will have the same/similar ones.

      Catherine wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  16. 1 major problem is that it is really easy to overeat dairy.

    Bobert wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Yes Bobert, I think you’ve hit on the only problem I see with dairy (as long as you’re lactose tolerant). Cheese, butter and cream are concentrated fat while milk is liquid (concentrated) calories. Similar to the way concentrated sugar was not found in nature (fruit came with fiber and honey came with bees to scare you away), neither concentrated fat or concentrated liquid calories were available to our hunter-gatherer ancestors (pre herding.) The fat they got came mixed in with their meat (that they had to chase and kill), or in their nuts/avocados/olives, etc. The calories came from things they had to spend time chewing, not guzzling. I think dairy is a wonderfully nutritious food, I love it and I eat as much as I can get away with; however when I have a few lbs to lose after holidays, I go easy on dairy, (and fruit also). There is no need to declare it a “bad” food or a “good” food.

      OctoberAmy wrote on March 14th, 2016
  17. Does anyone have a brand of butter to recommend? (I typically shop at Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods.) My sinuses can’t handle milk or yogurt, but butter seems to be okay and I’d like to use more of it on my veggies.

    SeattleSlim wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Trader Joe’s in Seattle has a good price on Kerrygold Irish Butter. It’s not organic but grass-fed.

      Ann wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • I concur -Kerry Gold from Trader Joe’s (in SoCal) -reasonably priced and delicious!

        Rene Rushing wrote on December 3rd, 2013
        • On the subject of Trader Joe’s and dairy -I just tried their “spotlight ” cheese called Barely Buzzed …rubbed in ground espresso and lavender …yum.

          Rene Rushing wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Organic Valley has a pasture butter. That is what I use.

      Erin wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Costco carries Kerrygold … very reasonably priced.

      Kate wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • you might check US Wellness Meats online, they sell butter, cheese, as well as chicken, beef, seafood

      Wenona wrote on December 4th, 2013
  18. Full-fat cottage cheese is part of my breakfast routine. Great protein source and keeps me feeling full all through lunch. I have definitely noticed that my body handles full-fat cheese and cottage cheese better than my old habit of skim milk and lowfat -insert dairy product here-.

    Kurt B. wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • One of my favorite quick breakfasts is just full fat cottage cheese and sliced tomatoes …

      Rene Rushing wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  19. I’ve recently incorporated full-fat sour cream into my diet. Great with avocado, cabbage and all kinds of good things.

    Tom wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  20. I have tried to make my own yogurt from full-fat milk and the cream just turned to oil when I heated the milk and then went bad during the fermentation process. I don’t have this problem with low-fat milk. As for cottage cheese, I just like the taste of low-fat better so that’s what I buy. I’ve been putting a lot of sour cream in things lately. It seems to make everything taste better. I suppose I could add it to my cottage cheese, but that seems unnecessary. Unless you are getting truly natural milk, all milk has been processed to provide a standard amount of cream anyway.

    Diane wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Try mixing the cream into the milk or heating it more slowly/gently ? I make yogurt from full fat milk + cream and I’ve never had that problem.

      Liz wrote on December 4th, 2013
  21. A couple of decades ago, we were stationed over in Italy, and one of the first things we did was visit an open-air farmer’s market. We bought bread, cheese (back when we could eat it), salami, and a knife, and made our own little picnic off to one corner of the grounds. We know now that the cheese we got was Pecorino Romano–DEFINITELY NOT the kind you want to make sandwiches with!

    We didn’t know that at the time. It was very twangy (sharp-tasting) and hard to cut. Now we know this is GRATING cheese and not slicing cheese.

    Wenchypoo wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  22. I love raw cheese ..I buy it a the farmer’s market along with heavy cream and water buffalo yougurt (the best!).

    John wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  23. I was wandering if you guys use to eat any form of french cheese?

    What do you think of it?

    Florin B. wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Definitely Brie. camembert is too pungent for my liking. I think a lot of the French cheeses are trademarked and can only be made in that location under specific conditions, eg. grass fed. I know some sheeps cheeses are like that.

      allison wrote on December 4th, 2013
      • I’m French, and I actually think the real Brie (made from raw milk in the region of the Brie) has a stronger taste than real Camembert.
        A lot of the cheeses you find in France are “AOC”, meaning they have to be made in a specific place, under certain conditions (use of raw milk, milk from a specific type of cow, like the Abondanve type for Beaufort cheese, what the cow was fed, for example). But depending on the cheese, not all these conditions have to be met : for some, the use of raw milk is not an obligation to be AOC.
        There is a huge variety, from not-so-smelly hard-pressed cheese, as Comté or Beaufort (the cheeses used in fondue) to the very smelly you almost have to eat with a spoon if you don’t want to drip some all over the place, like Epoisses, Munster or Maroilles.
        When I go abroad, cheese is by far the most difficult food to go without, as far as I’m concerned!

        Ophelie wrote on December 5th, 2013
    • Mimolette, Bucheron, tomme de Savoie, Brie, Camembert … so many fantastic French cheeses!

      Mantonat wrote on December 5th, 2013
  24. Raw, grass-fed milk up in this! Legal in PA! :)

    glorth2 wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • PA for the win, indeed! Lots of raw, grass-fed milk from an abundance of farms. But of course, with the availability of raw milk come the raids that happen every year or so, always making their way to the news headlines.

      Adam wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  25. We are organic dairy farmers. Jersey milk from cows on grass has always been a large part of our diet. We raised our kids on Weston Price’s principles and my kids and I have always been exceptionally healthy. We came to MDA because of my wife who has had serious digestive problems. We went primal a year ago and all of us benefited (Thank you very much!). But my wife is still struggling. She has now eliminated nightshades and brassicas. Interestingly, raw dairy is one of the few foods that is always good to her. Even more interesting is that pasteurized dairy will tear her up. The difference between raw and pasteurized on her body is amazing. I wonder how many people who think they cannot tolerate dairy really only have a problem with pasteurized dairy?

    Brad wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • The same is true for me. I cannot tolerate regular non-organic milk, but raw milk is great! I buy my milk from Organic Pastures in CA. I do ok with Organic Valley brand full fat milk (their eggnog is amazing). Mostly I use Organic Valley for cooking because of the high cost of raw.

      lori wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • +1 on the Organic Valley full-fat egg nog! It’s luxuriously thick, rich, and delicious! A nice treat during the holidays even if not primal due to sugar content.

        Ara wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • I followed Weston Price/Nourishing Traditions for three years and I can tell you, at least for me, my body did not like raw dairy anymore than pasturized. My tastebuds adored it (raw milk cheese, creme fraiche, etc. yum!) but I just gained weight and had a constant dripping nose. Once I cut out all dairy I lost weight easily and my asthma.congestion cleared up. It is interesting that, personally, fat of any sort does not leave me feeling sated or full, so even really rich butter or cream left me wanting more, not feeling very satsfied. SO I was consuming way to much.

        Mimulus wrote on December 4th, 2013
  26. Can you discuss the possible relation between dairy products and metabolic bone disease? As you know, the USA consumes more dairy products than any in the world, and yet have the highest incidence of Osteoarthritis. The causes could be multi-layered, but I’m hoping you will address it in relation to the Primal Blueprint you suscribe to and recommend.

    Lisa wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Crap milk products from sick cows and also being ultra-pasteurized and homongenized…get Raw Milk and read some Weston Price. I wouldn’t even call the stuff they sell in grocery stores, dairy! I’d call it poison, just like CAFO meat.

      Nocona wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • From what I’ve read the reason people get osteoporosis is because their acid and alkaline are unbalanced. Your body is always trying to be just a little bit alkaline. If you eat too many acid foods, your body can’t get enough alkaline from food it takes it from your bones.
      Alkaline foods are mostly fruits and veggies, which most people don’t eat enough of. Acid foods are proteins and processed food. A balance of 2 X the amount of alkaline over acid is best.

      Joan wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Joan, there are hundreds of reasons why people get osteoporosis.

        Acid/Alkaline theory is much more complex than what conventional wisdom proclaims.

        In terms of body function, no food is inherently acidic or alkaline. Alkalinity or acidity in the body is determined by the metabolic predisposition of the person and the internal environment of the body.

        Thus, in one person fruits are alkaline-forming and in an other person acid-forming.

        The same is valid for protein or any food.

        Mike wrote on December 4th, 2013
    • The relationship is related to the protein content of dairy products. High protein without carbs causes the body to pull out calcium. This manifests as osteoarthritis and bone deformation.

      Leagree wrote on December 4th, 2013
  27. I can technically tolerate dairy but it leads to some really annoying acne. I just recently tried to reintroduce some yogurt and cheese and after six weeks my skin is acting up again. But I just realized that I’ve gotten sick a few times which is very unusual. Maybe I’m even less tolerate than I realized? Time to cut it out again I guess. So sad.

    Kristi Horine wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  28. sorry I meant to say Osteoporosis…

    Lisa wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • Lisa, there is a wealth of knowledge already on this site. You likely will not get a personal response from Mark Sisson. For instance, search the site for “osteoporosis,” and there are several postings that reference it.

      Mark wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  29. I’m fairly certain I would not survive without my daily serving of raw, full-fat goat’s (or cow when I can’t get goat) milk (yes, I am being hyperbolic). Seriously, though … I have pretty low body fat and cannot imagine getting the protein I need without drinking my milk-two egg-banana-cocoa-coconut manna shake every morning. It is a hearty breakfast that takes me sometimes clear until dinner. I have so many other dietary restrictions (can’t even eat sweet potatoes and winter squash), that I’m very grateful for being able to consume dairy. And I too have wondered whether people who can’t tolerate dairy would be able to tolerate raw dairy. I’ve been drinking it for 5 years, damn near every day, and am blown away by how much better I feel.

    Lauryn wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  30. Dairy makes my life much easier, as I have lost the ability to metabolize many other enjoyable foods and need to eat something.

    The old argument that no other animals consume the milk of other animals – isn’t that also because they aren’t able to milk an animal? Given the ability, I’m sure many would, as it appears to be quite a good source of nutrients.

    Anna wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  31. Post workout, you want inflammation to be high, because the higher the inflammation, the stronger the recovery (I learned this from you, Mark). Low-fat dairy = inflammation and insulin spike, and protein. So non-fat greek yogurt post workout = best PWO snack ever?

    Tosca wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  32. Everyday I wake up hoping that my body can handle dairy. Unfortunately dairy acts like a poison for me. But my husband could eat it all day and feel great! Oh well:(

    Carrie Spencer wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • I’m with you! Every few months I give it a try again but with no success! I can tolerate some butter but everything else gives me migraines, sinus pain, mucus problems, stomach aches and I get moody! Very strange!

      Michelle wrote on December 3rd, 2013
      • Carrie and Michelle, have you tried raw and/or been sure that the type of milk is A2?

        From someone’s review on Amazon –

        A1 is the newer milk in an evolutionary sense, with the mutation responsible arising somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 years ago, at a time when cattle were being taken north into Europe. A2 milk is the original structure. All goat milk, most sheep milk, and some cow milk is A2. In the United States, though, most of the milk produced has a very high proportion of A1 milk.

        The danger from A1 milk is in its protein structure. The beta-casein in A1 milk has a structure that allows a short molecule called beta-casomorphin-7, or BCM-7, to split off during digestion. This small protein is the “devil in the milk”, and it can cause various problems, ranging from juvenile diabetes, autism, schizophrenia, allergies, to auto-immune diseases such as MS and Parkinson’s.

        Wenona wrote on December 4th, 2013
  33. what about your typical cheddar cheese(off the block, not shredded or processed) that you pick up at your local grocer? does that have the same effect as the raw, organic, grass-fed harder-to-find and very expensive cheeses mentioned in this article? i know conventional cheeses have less CLA than grassfed, but would be curious in general if they are sitll considered ‘primal’.
    I am T1 diabetic and eat quite a bit of cheese, probly 4 oz/day, mostly from a local cheese factory(local but not organic or grassfed). I also get kerrygold dubliner when i get a chance to get to the nearest costco. Cheese has very little effect on my blood sugar(another indicator that its not bad for you), but ive always wondered if i should be scaling back my intake

    Shawn wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • I would like to give my opinion here, if you don’t mind. First of all, 4oz daily! That’s a lot of cheese, for anyone. A good moderate amount would be 1-2 oz with a meal or as a snack with some nuts, 2-3 times a week. Cheese should be sharp in flavor so you are not tempted to over eat, plus better for you since is has more beneficial bacteria. It should also be whitish/yellow (the color of real milk) It should be looked at as more of a flavor enhancer.

      It may not have an effect on your blood sugar but there are other factors to consider, conventionally raised animals are pumped full of hormones, antibiotics and live in inhumane environments which cause illness such as mastitis which is an infection in the utter that creates puss and some factories get away with selling this milk so they don’t loose on profits.

      The animals are fed GMO corn and soy which make them sick because they are not designed to eat those foods and that is why they get sick and need the antibiotics.
      Thus not getting proper nutrients and easily passing on the effects to the consumer. Many other health ailments besides weight gain, immune disorders, low immune function (continual colds/flues), digestive issues, allergies, even related to certain cancers and the list goes on…

      The animals should be raised on grass with access to fresh water on a pasture where the sun is shining on them, they will not get sick and contain all the proper nutrients they deserve (and we as consumers will reap the benefits :)

      At least if not eating raw, your dairy should be grass-fed/pasture raised. Another thing to consider in the words of Michael Pollin “pay more, eat less”

      Audry wrote on December 5th, 2013
  34. I drink raw cow and goat milk. Fortunately it’s legal here if you go to the farm to pick it up. Switched to that about 7 years ago. I won’t touch the store bought.

    Most who can’t tolerate store bought dairy have no problem with raw.

    DB wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  35. To: “Janknitz” on being evolved to metabolize “dairy” at birth.

    To answer your quote:
    Human breast milk is not “dairy”. Strictly speaking “dairy” as we commonly use the word, comes only from bovine and humans are not bovine, therefore human breast milk cannot be “dairy”.

    There is a vast difference between being able to metabolize our mother’s milk and that of another species. This also evidenced by the fact that many human babies cannot tolerate cow’s (dairy) milk.

    Grok on!

    ShaSha wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  36. Continued:

    That being said, I think full fat dairy, as Mark says, has a great deal to recommend it and is a very useful, versatile, not to mention delicious whole food.

    ShaSha wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  37. A book you recommended, deep nutrition, likes sprouted foods. I’m wondering if butter on sprouted wheat sourdough bread(sprouted and fermented) is bad? JD

    John Davis wrote on December 3rd, 2013
  38. I think that the Paleo objection to dairy has to do with bovine estrogen and insulin growth hormone(s?). I have seen dairy referred to as “filtered cow’s blood”. I have also seen it cited as an increase factor for Parkinson’s

    What are the comments relative to this?

    Jim wrote on December 3rd, 2013
    • There were two studies (that I’m aware of) on the correlation of dairy consumption and occurrence of Parkinson’s by the same research team. The first found a positive association
      but the second study looked closer into different types of dairy and found that only milk consumption presented the positive association with the Parkinson’s
      Moreover, they found that it was the proteins in the milk, the sugars, vit D and calcium(from dairy origin) and not the fat . Plus they found this correlation to be significant for men only while it was pretty much unclear for women. In a third study they acknowledge however that “One possibility is that dairy products are contaminated with neurotoxic chemicals” such as pesticide residues etc.
      And then there’s this study which finds no association at all.
      I cannot say how reliable those studies are in terms of methods, interpretations and so on.

      Katerina wrote on December 6th, 2013

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