Dear Mark: Chronic Cardio
Dear Mark,
I’m still having a hard time understanding what “chronic high level training” is, exactly. How much is too much? Is there a heart rate zone you guys can give me? A time limit? Am I overthinking this??
Thanks, Charlotte, for posting this question last week. As is so often the case, another MDA reader (hats off to you, Mike OD!) offered great advice. We thought the question was well worth revisiting. First off, let’s investigate the concept of chronic cardio. Intense cardio as we commonly think of it today means long stretches at a sustained heart rate in the 80+% range.
The fact is, our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn’t ramp up their heart rates significantly for over an hour every day, and I don’t think we should either. They walked at a very low level of exertion, burning almost entirely stored fats. Once you get into the zones where less fat is burned and where there’s a big dependency on glucose to fuel muscles, your body goes into a less efficient mode of fuel oxidation. There are biochemical costs associated with this shift. Your muscles and liver can only hold 500-600 grams of precious glycogen (stored glucose) at any one time, which means about 2 hours’ worth for the best trained individuals and less for most people. That means that to come back and work out hard the next day requires at least 600 more grams of carbs every day. That’s just too much glucose and insulin to deal with every day.
I don’t recommend pushing this limit or even approaching it. Why bother? This kind of training (and diet) raises cortisol levels, increases oxidative damage, systemic inflammation, depresses the immune system and decreases fat metabolism. About the only thing good it does is improve cardiac muscle strength – and even then you get too the point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.
As you know, I recommend a different approach that more accurately mirrors what we evolved doing. In those simpler (but not really “good old”), primal times, we spent several hours a day engaged in low level activity. A few times a week, caveman/woman life required brief spurts in high intensity anaerobic mode to run from various predators, hunt down dinner, engage in “play” etc. Each of these modes resulted in its own unique and very positive growth response.
This pattern, for most of us, isn’t easily replicated as a result of our busy lives. Instead, I suggest anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour of low to moderate level aerobic movement such as walking briskly, hiking, cycling, etc. It doesn’t need to be every day, but at least a few times a week is important. The goal during these sessions is to maintain the zone that burns mostly fat. For very fit people, this could be as high as 70-80% of your maximum heart rate, but we’re really talking 60-70% for most people. The benefits of exercising at this zone are numerous and the risks minimal. It’s the ideal level of activity for decreasing body fat, increasing the capillary network, and for lowering blood pressure and reducing risk for degenerative diseases, including heart disease.
Add to this routine a few anaerobic, “interval” workouts once or twice a week. Weight-bearing, anaerobic bursts are the best training for building muscle, and lean muscle mass is critical to health. It also increases your aerobic capacity, natural growth hormone production and insulin sensitivity.
Traditional running sprints are one option, but we presented several others last month for your perusal. Put your all into it for 20-40 seconds and then rest for two minutes or so between “sets.” You can start out with three or four bursts and work your way up to as much as eight. As always, get in some warm up time and stretches afterward. It’s no fun pulling a muscle.
Finally, working all muscle groups through dynamic strength-training sessions (ie: lifting weights) a few times a week helps further build and maintain muscle mass, insulin sensitivity and growth hormone release.
Finally, let me add that I’m not trying to squash anyone’s passion for competing. As a former competitor myself, I totally “get” the drive to compete. Do I think that mode of existence is healthy, particularly in the long run? Not really, but I still understand what brings people to it. I simply want to convey that certain and sometimes significant health compromises are inherent to competition training. If anti-aging, longevity and robust excellent health are your primary goals, high-level training isn’t the best way to achieve them.
Now, for those who aren’t into the competition mission, you have the advantage of making your fitness routine and health about ideal balance. And I’m a true believer in achieving the balance that allows people to live the longest, healthiest lives possible. Thanks for your questions, and keep them coming!
Abraaj Flickr Photo (CC)
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
This is the 1st time I’ve stumbled upon this website. I love working out and do it often enough so that at the end of the month, I make sure I have more “workout days” than “rest days”. Usually I do 45-60 minutes of cardio, abs and use weights on-and-off. I have two questions:
1) You always hear that “women won’t bulk up when using weights because they don’t have enough testosterone”– I know that there are certain excercises I can’t do if I want my jeans to fit. I am the opposite of “manley” but have played sports all my life and develop muscle very easily. I stick to a healthy diet the majority of the time but also allow myself to enjoy my favorite foods, just not everyday. I even find that running too often causes my legs to bulk up. I’ve always hated having muscular legs and would like ideas of workouts to slim them down, not bulk them up. Any ideas as to why this happens and how to avoid it?
2) I LOVE cardio. Is this article telling me that doing cardio won’t help me maintain my weight because it’s not actually effective at burning fat? I rely on cardio to get rid of extra calories and always assume that I need to do more & more to lose weight. Since I started running and working out hard, I feel sluggish and bloated if I don’t do cardio for a few days. What’s the deal here?
Amelia,
1) Running is usually known for slimming legs down more than any other cardio exercise. If that’s not the case with you and/or you don’t want “muscular” legs, the best bet is swimming.
2) Cardio does burn some calories (and running is best at it) but it’s the KIND of fuel that it burns that we talk about here. I’m not against cardio per se…just doing over an hour for several sessions a week. My ideal regimen for health would be going for 2 hour hikes (low level aerobic) and then 2 sprint sessions a week (to promote fat-burning and growth hormone)
PS why you opposed to musclular anything on women? it’s the new look and VERY healthy.
I’m a CrossFit affiliate owner (CF Hampton Roads in Yorktown VA). Been CFing for 5 yrs. I’m also a former tri and marathoner and MDA fanatic. The PB & MDA have become two of my primary blog sources. Robb Wolf (www.robbwolf.com (work friendly)is CrossFit’s lead Nutrition “guru” and is an excellent source for Evolutionary nutrition and fitness discussions including gluten/lectin/autoimmune connections and the whole insulin gammit.
CrossFit’s efficacy is founded in the same principles that MDA preaches: all the good things from fintess come with intensity–short durations of high intensity to be specific. While CrossFit quantifies its gains as increased work capacity (in a broad range of movment and time domains…aka not specializing), the outcome is the same as Mark’s recommendations: overall health markers improve…drastically and consistently. To a CrossFitter, burning the fat is a positive byproduct of addressing nutrition and working HARD for short periods. Does it have to be labeled CrossFit? Absolutely NOT, but it is a tight knit community much like PBers.
I’m also in the military…the USAF, where the emphasis of PT is placed on running a 1.5 mile test. When it comes down to combat, health or my neighbor helping we shovel mulch or pulling me and my family from a burning house, I want the neighbor who can lift heavy things and move them quickly…that’s what life demands of all of us and has for eons IT’S ALL PRIMAL!!! I’d hate to have a professional marathoner next door when I need help moving furniture. My family and my gym train FOR LIFE. GROK ON!!!
Well put, Jeremy!
But he could move stuff all day long, when your muscles give out after an hour. What isn’t to like about that?
Hi Mark,
I have recently discovered the site and it makes very compelling reading. I might just get a copy of your book.
One thing on the cardio.
I have recently watched some of a british (BBC) documentary of name that escapes me.
It was about how the human race evolved and travelled from africa to populate the world.
As part, the documentary went to east africa and spent time with north east african hunter gatherer tribes. They were trackers and when they picked up a trail they ran at a reasonable pace for sometimes an hour or more.
These people really reminded me of the likes of Bekele or Heile Gebreselasie in body shape. They were capable of long distance running, with naturally efficient stride not too far from Pace or chi running.
What strikes me is that this seems to be a bit at odds with your postulation of what would be the behavior of Grok.
How would you reconcile this behavior?
Cormac, I guarantee that they weren’t running at a high-end aerobic pace, but rather jogging with occasional bursts at a pace that would be considered “low level aerobic” pace similar to that which I espouse. Additionally, they don’t do this every day.
I Think I get it.
It was more like a long striding Jog, If I remember the name of the series I will let you know. It is interesting.
Thanks Mark.
Mark,
I was curious as to what you thought of the relationship between VO2max and cardiovascular disease. Every percent increase in VO2max can greatly reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease, apparantly. Would an optimal VO2max be achieved with your recommended exercise? or do you think we’d all be quite comfortable, yet a greater risk of cardiovascular disease?
Then again, this is with the general population, the carb crowd, so the primarily glycolytic energy system may play a role in offsetting the CV risk of all the carbs, which we don’t have to worry about. What do you think?
Like everything else in life/science, this applies generally to a general population. Certainly, increasing VO2 Max in relatively sedentary people will confer a benefit up to a point. I say there may be a point beyond that where the work necessary to increase VO@ stops producing health benefits.
Don’t forget, you don’t need to do a ton of traditional cardio to increase VO2. Research shows that short, intense intervals increase VO2 substantially. I contend that following a movement (exercise) pattern of our ancestors (lots of low level and a few minutes of very high intensity) develops what we might call an “optimal” VO2 max. Optimal here means optimal for health and longevity. Specific endurance performance goals may require added VO2 manipualtion at the risk of decreasing health.
How do you explain the tarahumara? A population in northern Mexico that bases its culture on running, they routinely run massive distances, putting marathon runners to shame. Their diet contains almost no meat, yet they appear to be some of the healthiest people around. The deaths that do occur seem to mostly be caused by infections and injuries.
Dima, the Tarahumara have lots of health issues that seem to somehow be overlooked by those reporting on the running they do. I don’t think they put marathoners to shame since they don’t run very fast. (maybe as ultra runners they do). Running is/was a way of communication and transport in the desolate canyons in which they live. They show that humans CAN run, not that they SHOULD run. They do also tend to prove the notion that we should NOT be wearing high-tech shoes if we choose to run.
Could you provide evidence for the health issues that these people have?
Also, could you explain the runner’s high? Why would the body release a flood of endorphins after miles and miles of running, if primitive humans never had to undergo such activity.
Another perspective you might not have considered: For me, endurance activities are a way to relax, to reboot my brain, to take time for myself. They are my “play”. I’m naturally high-strung with a busy schedule, and my long, slow runs and swims are time for me to unplug from the world and enjoy how well my body moves. I do also get that feeling from strength training, interval training and low level activities, which I do frequently. But I’m not giving up my endurance work. Even if it does shed a few years off my life (which I doubt), the joy and serenity it brings to my life is worth it.
I am just beginning to look around on these blogs, I have been tossing around the ideas I’ve seen here and will probably begin implementing them more seriously over the next few days, this being said I am not really all that overweight, I am a bit, but I am losing, and pretty quickly NOT through the methods on this site. I am losing because I exercise constantly and I am just now not indulging myself constantly. The philosophy is what draws me more than anything, that the modern day body, like an animal, does exactly what it is told. Our instructions are what is lacking. I have always felt there was something odd about how the modern human lived. Why for example is it so painful to not eat for a day. What have we taught our bodies to expect? Obviously you all understand the philosophy and use it in your lives and I applaud you. I came here while looking at a CrossFit website and thought: “I’m glad someone took the instinct that I’ve felt and ran with it” This is great. My question is, as you mention before about competition, do you have any suggestions to someone who wants to follow your diet/philosophy but is more concerned with progressing at a competitive sport now, than overall longevity? I am not living up to some extreme where I want to get loaded up on steroids, I just like beating myself up with exercise and training but also want to implement as much of your plan as possible. The sport: Fencing. Thank you so much for your time.
for anyone who has made it to the bottom of the comment thread, here’s a great story about what chronic cardio can do to you… with horrifying photos! http://theoatmeal.com/blog/ultramarathon
I’m curious, Mark, how do you reconcile your vision of “Grok” being a slow-moving, sometimes-sprinter with the persistence hunt? Clearly we were eating meat long before we had weapons and we had to catch it somehow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI-9RJi0Qo
Donnie-O, we were efficient scavengers of other animals’ kills for a long time.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100811135039.htm
And we’ve had pointy sticks for millions of years.
Hi, Neat post. There’s a problem along with your site in web explorer, could check this? IE still is the market leader and a good component of folks will leave out your wonderful writing due to this problem.
This website might be useful if you want to check your heart rate online.
http://onlineheartrate.com
Just tap the space bar whenever you feel the beat and it will tell you your BPM and calculate your training zone.
I have a question regarding chronic cardio type training.
I am contemplating a trip to Thailand in the next few months. My cousin and friends went to a Muay Thai training camp and trained with them. The thing is, the training is very intense, and it lasts several hours a day.
Is there a way to prepare myself for this type of exercise? What can I do to reduce the stress/cortisol response, and keep my body from being depleted and then respiked with insulin?
Thanks for any help!
This is somewhat depressing to me. During the warmer months I like to do a 30 mile ride on both days of the weekend which takes me 1.5 hours per ride. I’ll have to dig out my HRM to see just how much I am pushing myself.